Why NOED is unfair. (My opinion)
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Survivors Running META Perks On All 4 & Purple Toolkits To Bang Gens ASAP, While In A 4-Man SWF: NoED is unfair because I don't want to get off my gens & do bones. Why can't I just counter it on 1 totem before it ever pops?
Just. Do. Bones. NoED is fine. It's a perk that does not activate until the gates are powered, so it needs to stay hidden until the gates are powered.
Asking for it to be nerfed because 'SoloQ's don't get the information SWFs have' is 1) Screwing Killers because SWF and 2) Making SWFs stronger. No.
Just. do. Bones.
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Yeah, it's 70 seconds spread amongst 4 people, -disregarding the time it takes to find the totem-, and due to the way the counterplay works, it does NOT require a perk slot. AND those four people need to coordinate amongst each other.
16 perk slots for just 1 person to bring something other than BT/DS/DH/COH
This is also a really bad take, because that one person is usually me. And what happens when I get chased? That's right, the perk is useless, not just to me, but to everyone!
Perhaps the meta is so stale because survivors would rather claim something is "unfun" "unfair" or "op" rather than swap a meta perk for one that would help with their specific issues.
Look at the list you put up. Half of that list is already there specifically because they're perks -that help with specific issues-. You want to make it 3/4. Pitch in UB, you're at 4/4.
The meta is stale because, outside of DH and CoH (Which does deserve nerfing), most of the survivor load-out is there specifically to counter design issues. This whole attitude of 'just bring X perk' is exactly what this meta is. You're advocating for making it worse by locking in another band-aid perk.
DS, in its current form, is one of the worst perks in the game. It is not particularly high value, it has a very steep cost to use, and it is incredibly easy to counterplay. And it's still being picked all the time, simply because tunnelling is so overbearing that you need DS if you don't want to risk a killer that just tunnels for an easy win.
I don't know how this argument has anything to do with that calculation. 14 x 5 = 70. That's 70 seconds of slowdown.
Doing bones is literally your worst option. 99% of the time, you WILL end up making things worse for yourself and your team. Leave the totems and try to bait NOED into one that's near you.
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BT and DS are meta because survivors love unsafe unhooks, let's be honest there. That's not even from playing killer, playing solo taught me that, they don't look around, they run over traps, sometimes they come in while being chased. That's not bad game design, that's dumb plays.
70 seconds to remove all totems. Much shorter to just identify them. Again, this is time taken by the side that literally dictates the pace of the match. Also, seriously doesn't take much communication, I play solo literally 99.9% of the time, comms are a crutch for players without situational awareness.
Yes, the perk doesn't work as well if the person carrying it is killed. So, like all perks.
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BT and DS are meta because survivors love unsafe unhooks, let's be honest there.
No, it's because camping and tunnelling are incredibly effective. If survivors are going for unsafe unhooks, you can bet they won't pull you off the hook with BT in their pocket.
And while I definitely agree that BT is bad in that it encourages unsafe unhooks, it is still an anti-camping measure. And DS especially.
70 seconds to remove all totems. Much shorter to just identify them. Again, this is time taken by the side that literally dictates the pace of the match. Also, seriously doesn't take much communication, I play solo literally 99.9% of the time, comms are a crutch for players without situational awareness.
We're not talking about identifying them, the discussion was about the alleged counterplay of 'do bones'. Yes, identifying and checking is better, but that doesn't mean that 'do bones' isn't a terrible idea.
We're also not talking about how powerful NOED is, just about how fair it is, and specifically, that it would be, paradoxically, more fair if it was active from the start.
And survivors setting the pace is not a black-and-white scenario. A killer applying good pressure will absolutely dictate the game's pace. Not to mention campers, who literally state 'you have 120 seconds or else I kill another one'.
Yes, the perk doesn't work as well if the person carrying it is killed. So, like all perks.
Yes, but that does throw a spanner into your argument of 'You've got 16 perk slots across your team so just one isn't a big deal'.
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Doesn't everyone learn that NOED exists at the same time (after the first person gets hit once the gens are done)?
For that matter, aren't all the upcoming match's perks visible in a plaintext file somewhere if you're playing on PC? (I've never looked for it myself, and I'm playing on Stadia at the moment, but I heard such a thing exists somewhere, and the devs apparently don't consider it cheating since you can just open it up in Notepad and look at it, and serves no other legitimate purpose?)
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That's legitimately asking Solo Q and Duo's to throw the game on a chance that a perk exists.
No. Not fair at all.
Likewise, I do not believe completely preventing a perk from activating is good either.
I'd rather see NOED changed into something more healthy.
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Yeah, I found the thread: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/151828/is-it-possible-to-know-the-killer-before-the-match-starts
It doesn't say anything about perks, though, just killer, so nvm unless someone can verify this.
The thing about NOED is that it doesn't activate until you've already won the game and have no incentive left to stay unless you're trying to be a hero or get an achievement. It's completely opt-in. If you want to stick around during EGC looting chests and dancing around a facecamped hook looking for an opening, you know the risk you're taking. There's a very small window between the time the last gen pops and the exit gates are open that it leaves you 100% vulnerable, but a killer isn't going to get more than one extra kill out of it (and sometimes not even that) unless you decided to stick around and play his game.
On the other hand, having every survivor be Exposed from the start of the match would be fun. Throw Undying on top of that along with Pentimento or maybe Insidious for camping or even Haunted Grounds and another Exposed perk, and survivors will be crying for things to go back to the way they were.
NOED is powerful, but it's fair.
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There were VERY few games when there was a totem blessed when the gens were done or at the end of the game.
But I do have it noted.
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Us vs Them!
Us vs Them!
I don't really consider going down to NOED after doing 4 totems any different than losing multiple injuries to a single Boon in a good (bad for killer) spawn that takes an eternity to get to.
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Stop rushing out gens in 4 mins then
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Why do people not understand that NoED has to exist as it does? Let me try to explain:
If NoED was changed, then it would fail it's role as an unseen threat. The point of NoED is to make Survivors stop pounding gens like they were drinks during last call. If Survivors knew, from the get-go, if NoED was not in the match? Considering NO OTHER PERK does what it does?
They would pound gens and be out the door in 4 minutes. Because there would be literally no perk to stop them, aside from Ruin, which they would know about by tapping a gen. In fact, some of the streamers I used to watch would actually tap a gen to check sparks before committing to a repair, when a match started.
They would know 'I can ignore totems and pound gens' if NoED had a tell. Or was not the massive threat it is after gens pop. And that means that one perks that protects a totem? Useless; Survivors now know if NoED is in a match from the word 'Go'. No NoED? No whatever that perk is, because Survivors won't do totems without the ever-present threat of NoED.
If NoED had a designated totem pre-endgame? And TOLD Survivors it was cleansed? Stop doing bones, and start pounding gens! NoED is gone! There's literally 0 Hex threats for the endgame, so let's pound gens and twerk out the gate now!
Because if NoED was NOT a big threat? if NoED had a tell from 'Go'? Survivors would never do totems in games without NoED, because the BP ain't worth being caught and dying. They would just do gens and leave. Every match.
It's like some people go 'NoED threatens me by existing. Which makes me do bones. But I want to do gens & leave ASAP. So change NoED!' And don't realize NoED is doing EXACTLY what it's meant to do; force Survivors to do bones.
So no; NoED CANNOT be changed, nerfed, altered, or given a pre-endgame tell. This would ruin the role it's supposed to fill, and gen speeds would get, if that's even possible, faster. Because no other perk fills that 'unknown threat' role like NoED.
And the moment one DID; Survivors would, once again, scream it's unfair and demand it be changed because it stops them from doing gens at breakneck speed.
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I don’t think No Ed is unfair, it shares the same sentiment as what Adrenaline does when you think you are downing someone but really they gain a speed boost and a health state. Which there is nothing wrong with that.
The only difference and what I think needs to change with No Ed is the way it is activated. Where a survivor’s objective simply being completed is what activates it. They should keep the same effect but require the killer to get so many hooks before it can activate.
This way you do not have people Face-camping AND getting those downs by simply idling. Because for me that is mainly why people find it unfair, is when the killer played so poorly but they are rewarded with additional speed and expose on survivors.
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So you're crying about noed? In the state of the game right now noed is being used against top MMR players. Also if you know what perks the killer is using ain't that boring? Also killer doesn't know when the survivor have DS, DH, and any other exhaustion Park so don't be a hypocrite. Noed is fair as it is a 2nd chance perk for killers
Also there's two options you can do to avoid noed.
1. This is the most easiest to do, DO THE DAMN BONE!! It doesn't take a whole minute to do. There's literally perks that track totems!
2. Delete the game and play a different game.
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I see. I guess I was wrong about that. but even so I still assume that the obsession has DS just to play it safe and also y’all need to realize DS is an anti tunneling perk. It’s not op it’s just a perk to stop tunnels from happening
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Cool, that's not my argument.
The counterplay to NOED (doing ALL 5 totems) is nearly impossible to do if you aren't in a 4-man and if you are, far too easy.
I'm literally proving this as we speak via an experiment.
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Ok? The answer to that is not to change NoED so it can't do it's job anymore. It's a problem with the power SWFs have.
Hence why I keep saying BHVR should swallow their damn pride & add voice comms to the game, so SoloQ has the same benefits as an SWV, and then balance around that.
Changing NoED, which would kill it, is not the answer.
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Actually, not accounting for travel time or interruptions or not knowing the exact location of every totem; it takes 70 seconds to cleanse all 5 totems, as 5 times 14 equals 70.
Now, if you'll remember back to your early education, 60 seconds is a minute. Ergo, it does, in fact, take much more than a minute to do all 5 totems.
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1. If the argument is solely how "fair" it is, then that's easy. It's perfectly fair. It's a perk in the game, and to use it you have to essentially be short a perk all match. It has multiple different forms of counterplay, and can be removed entirely from the match.
So yes, it's fair. The rest comes down to the semantics of what counterplay is best to employ. You can take a bit of extra time (when survivors set the pace of the match, and aren't actually pressed for time at any point outside of the egc) or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave. If the killer is so good at pressure despite being handicapped all match by being down a perk that you can't even think about totems, guess what? That means he earned that noed activation.
2. The fact that death removes a perk doesn't really change the fact that the survivor team gets 16. That's just how asymmetrical games work. One side starts off at an advantage (generally the team with more players) and the other has to whittle down that advantage (usually by killing the other team). That's what makes it fair for killer players. Losing the advantage when your team is killed off is literally a defining characteristic of the genre, so I don't know why you want to pretend it's a brand new concept.
3. NOED activating at the start wouldn't make it more fair, it would make it useless and still manage to piss off survivor players. At the beginning of the match, when the pendulum is fully in the survivor side, it's far too easy to clear, and yet at the same time I can't see a world where starting the match exposed, with a killer who has a speed boost, is going to be seen as fair by survivor players. They already claim now that noed gives "free" kills when it activates, removing the ability to stop it from activating just makes that perception worse.
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Doing totems is bad practice either way, and that doesn't make any sense.
If survivors manage to get all the gens done in four minutes (this must be hyperbole, as I've never seen this happen, and I'm not sure if it's even mathematically possible), it means you were playing terribly as killer. It's also good for the survivors even if you have NOED, because they would have gotten there anyway, and now it means you have almost no hooks to begin with once NOED activates.
Nobody runs around the map doing totems because they're scared of NOED. It's not in most games, and that would be a waste of time even in a lot of matches where it would otherwise show up.
You're even low-key making this argument yourself. "If they weren't doing totems because of NOED, then I wouldn't have as many chances to get them before the gens are popped." Then why would they do totems? Circular logic. Survivors do totems to stop the killer from getting downs... which balances the game by giving a killer extra chances to get downs before the totems are complete?
They have more of a chance for a 4E or at least 3E if they do no totems and bang out the gens in four minutes.
There are such a thing as endgame builds.
Clown build I posted earlier in the thread intentionally spends most of the game getting stacks on PWYF and STBFL and destroying pallets. By the time NOED activates, you already have a 10-15% speed boost and no attack cooldown, and then NOED gives you another 6% speed boost, and then you get another 10% from antidotes if you really want to cheese it, and with bloodlust you can theoretically get up to another 15%.
Meaning you can get up to a maximum of ~161% speed (115 being Clown's base), although it doesn't usually get anywhere near this high and will go down pretty quickly when you do - but a steady ~130+% or more is doable by that point in the game. And then you can make it even worse for survivors by using the tonic to slow them down an extra 15-20%.
If you manage to effectively activate Blood Warden, it's all over.
Point is, if you don't get many hooks by the time gens are done, but you did destroy pallets and get stacks all game, then you played well, and NOED rewards you as it should.
Post edited by hailxsatanxeveryxday on1 -
I'm going to name perks that show totem locations. detectives hunch. Huh oh what about counter force? Oh what about small game? what?! No?
Wait there's 4 survivors which some might have boons so you're math is off or have a brain to do the damn bones
Believe it or not it's not that damn hard to do the bones
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You're talking to the guy who literally ran a totem experiment that required me to run Small Game for 200 games.
When you've done the research and put in the effort, go ahead and debate.
Right now though, all I'm seeing is you insulting me because I disagree with you.
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No I’m not running a perk to counter a killer perk that is just dumb because what if they don’t run hex’s then I just wasted a very valuable perk slot
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Luckily there's only a handful of maps, and in each map there are fixed spawn locations. (If you took part in the Halloween festivities the pumpkins actually spawned at those locations) so just check those spots, and remember where totems are, then if it turns out the killer has NOED, you already know where to look to get rid of it.
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Ah yes, your vaunted experiment where you took 200 games to show that if you play this like it's 1v1, you're going to have a bad time.
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'No, I'm not going to run a perk to counter a Killer perk unless I know it will work.' Survivors in one post.
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Oh then use a damn map. It can also track totems! Also doing the totems get you more bp or a use of boons. Instead of crying about noed because you're to damn lazy to do the bones.
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So if you're an experience Survivor is it scummy to bring in perks that help in chase like Dead Hard or Windows?
You can't really say doing bones doesn't benefit your team if you're breaking all the totems well than no Noed you just benefited your team plus boons you have time to bless you have time to cleanse.
NOED isn't even that great of a perk it's still 50/50 if you'll even get to use it and even than if you get it Survivors could find it in like 10 seconds after it pops.
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For 1 I don't know you, so I don't know if you did an experiment or not.
For 2 I normally get all the bones out of the way as soon as I spawn in. As there's 4 survivors 2 of could be working on gen and the other being chased by the killer more and enough time to finish a totem or two. Not to mention resilience and spine chill speeds up the action of doing the totems, and I also know that totems spawn in a star pattern in each map with small game I could destroy the totem or place a boon on them and also know if my teammates got the totem out of the way.
For 3 I wasn't insulting, I was being honest, I'm sorry if you can't handle my honestly.
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I don't think it's unfair, I just think it should be earnable.
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I have no idea what that means, but sure.
I played normally and used Small Game to help me track how many totems were cleansed.
I also recorded how many were Booned near the end of the game.
Also, perhaps you'd like to see it before you draw any conclusions?
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To quote you directly
"you rather cry like a baby because you're to damn lazy?"
That seems insulting to me, idk.
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I did see it, you've brought it up quite often. I even brought up my issues with your methodology, which I see you have forgotten, which isn't surprising considering how they were ignored as you clearly got the data you set out to get. I don't have the inclination to go over it all again on a third thread with you, so I'll just say the plural of anecdote isn't evidence.
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That's not even an insult. You're crying over noed that's a 50/50 chance perk. It's not rocket science just doing the totems. If you refuse to do the totem and get noed and started crying here about noed because you were to lazy to do the totems to stop noed in the first place.
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So yes, it's fair. The rest comes down to the semantics of what counterplay is best to employ. You can take a bit of extra time (when survivors set the pace of the match, and aren't actually pressed for time at any point outside of the egc) or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave. If the killer is so good at pressure despite being handicapped all match by being down a perk that you can't even think about totems, guess what? That means he earned that noed activation.
That's the point: It's not really fair.
It's not 'a bit of extra time', it's quite a lot. Especially when survivors cannot communicate. 'But then bring small game': okay, but then the cost is quite a bit of time, plus up to four perk slots.
The idea that survivors aren't pressed for time is also completely dependent on the match and the other players, including the killer.
The problem is in the supposed counterplay. Doing those five totems is a huge investment when survivors aren't by default equipped to deal with it. And it doesn't even help them that much if they do get all five. If they get all five, and the killer has NOED, it's bad, since it's heavy slowdown. If the killer didn't have NOED, it's worse.
That's why I stated that, paradoxically, NOED would be more fair if it was active from the start.
And there's also a major problem with 'good pressure = earned NOED activation' in that camping exists.
The fact that death removes a perk doesn't really change the fact that the survivor team gets 16. That's just how asymmetrical games work. One side starts off at an advantage (generally the team with more players) and the other has to whittle down that advantage (usually by killing the other team). That's what makes it fair for killer players. Losing the advantage when your team is killed off is literally a defining characteristic of the genre, so I don't know why you want to pretend it's a brand new concept.
You're moving the goalposts.
You stated that the survivors have sixteen perk slots available and they need only one to slot in Small Game. I pointed out that that is not true. Now you've turned the discussion around to face off against some strawman where you seem to think I'm opposed to the idea of a survivor's perks ceasing function when that survivor dies.
NOED activating at the start wouldn't make it more fair, it would make it useless and still manage to piss off survivor players. At the beginning of the match, when the pendulum is fully in the survivor side, it's far too easy to clear, and yet at the same time I can't see a world where starting the match exposed, with a killer who has a speed boost, is going to be seen as fair by survivor players. They already claim now that noed gives "free" kills when it activates, removing the ability to stop it from activating just makes that perception worse.
It would fix one of NOED's design issues, was my point.
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"or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave."
"or you can just remember where the dulls are and check at the end when noed activates. Don't want to do either? Just leave."
-Put it twice so this time maybe you'll read it at least once. Also seriously, if the killer is standing still, camping a hook. That's the easiest possible time to find totems to either note or destroy/boon as you see fit. Camping is the exact opposite of applying pressure.
You said that I can't count survivors having 16 perks as a team, because they don't keep them when they die, I pointed out how ridiculous that idea is. That's not moving any goalposts. You seemed to be saying that if a perk can be removed it shouldn't count, which considering we're discussing a hex here, is absolutely hilarious.
NOED doesn't have a design problem, is my point. Making it activate in any way at the beginning of the match would definitely introduce one, however.
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Put it twice so this time maybe you'll read it at least once.
That's all well and good, but that's not going to work if you finish gen five and then the killer spots you. He's still going to get the chase halved.
'Just leave' is forgetting that the killer has two spots to patrol (With 4% bonus movespeed) and the survivors still have to open the gates.
You're oversimplifying an incredibly nuanced game.
Also seriously, if the killer is standing still, camping a hook. That's the easiest possible time to find totems to either note or destroy/boon as you see fit. Camping is the exact opposite of applying pressure.
It's the easiest possible time, sure, but you do guarantee that your team doesn't win if you do so. You have 120 seconds to finish all gens, open the gate and get out, otherwise the killer will move on to the next target. If they have NOED, they might just slug for the 4K, because you can't do both the gens and the totems in 120 seconds. It's one or the other, and either way you lose out.
You said that I can't count survivors having 16 perks as a team, because they don't keep them when they die, I pointed out how ridiculous that idea is. That's not moving any goalposts. You seemed to be saying that if a perk can be removed it shouldn't count, which considering we're discussing a hex here, is absolutely hilarious.
Then you're massively misunderstanding what I said.
You said 'It's one perk slot out of 16'. I pointed out that 1 perk slot out of 16 isn't going to be enough, because it can be shut down by the killer chasing the one who has the perk, meaning you need another one with that perk to pick up the slack. In solo play, this generally translates to 4 out of 16 perks being used up for what you're suggesting.
NOED doesn't have a design problem, is my point.
And that is where we fundamentally disagree.
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Is that really what you want?
Stealth killers would suddenly be A-tier. Run it with Undying, Thrill of the Hunt, and Lethal Pursuer, and you had better find those totems within the first two minutes of every game.
Why not? Survivors get Circle of Healing.
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NOED is fine people need to stop getting upset because they died in the endgame.
You die early you tantrum, you die late you tantrum.
NOED is a great perk because it makes the endgame threatening. Most endgames are boring as piss because by that point you have won it unless you are on death hook and even then there is a pretty good chance to escape.
I wish NOED was built in when the EGC started everybody is exposed. That would make every game thrilling at the end.
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Here's an idea:
Every Survivor hooked twice before the last generator pops is Exposed when the last generator pops. They are at their weakest, and the Entity is hungry for their souls. 😁
It would encourage Killers to spread out hooks so no Survivors are safe during the end-game! Less tunneling! 😇
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"That's all well and good, but that's not going to work if you finish gen five and then the killer spots you. He's still going to get the chase halved."
And why shouldn't he? He played all game with 3 perks, and now spotted you when his 4th finally kicked in. That's how the game works. Sometimes, you get spotted at a bad time. Sometimes you turn the corner and run right into the killer. Sometimes ruin spawns right next to a survivor. If "fair" to you means that the counterplay always works 100% of the time, then nothing is fair.
Yes, the killer can shut down the perk by killing the survivor who has it, so winning 4 chases against a survivor. Luckily the perk only helps with totems, it's not something that is required to find or destroy them. (Compared to the ways survivors can remove some perks, by destroying a totem that can't run or hide, it's a bit more work)
As a matter of fact, I had to look up what the perk was called because I don't use it. There are 10 spawn points per map, they aren't hard to find, so I bring Inner Strength instead as my totem perk. (I prefer it over COH as it's not dependant on being in a certain spot on the map, and quite frankly, COH isn't hard to come by with my teammates)
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The only unfair thing about it in my opinion is it's power against solo q. It's not very good against parties.
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I mean, know I keep saying this, but it's only "unfair" against groups of multiple people all throwing themselves at a hook during EGC. It has no power over someone who doesn't walk right in front of me and go for a save I probably could have just grabbed them off of, anyway.
The number one counter to NOED is not being an idiot.
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So getting instadowned makes you an idiot? XD. I break all totems every game in an effort to stop NOED. This is much easier when in a party.
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I mean, the way I play NOED (and, honestly, the only way I've ever seen it played) is that I get a down as soon as it activates (or, ideally, just before, so the others don't know it's coming) and facecamp the hook. I may open the exit gates before hooking, if I think I can get away with it, just to increase pressure.
90% of the time, 2-3 of them will all come for the hook at once, even if they know NOED is in play, and then it's gg. Doing that makes you an idiot, yes.
The smart ones go find NOED and take it out while I'm camping the hook. Luckily, smart ones are few and far between. (Honestly, going for a hook save at all once the gates are open isn't a good strategy except under very specific circumstances, even when NOED isn't involved. Once again, though, that doesn't stop anyone from trying. I get a lot of kills that way.)
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Please note that I very much agree that NoeD should get a slight change. I am not in favour of this perk as it is now. I would retain it's hidden nature during the match but make it easier to cleanse once it becomes active by adding the mechanic of "Hex: Plaything" to NoeD.
Pulsar did a very good job of illustrating that "do bones" is not a valid argument by the way. Something that I would agree too.
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“Doing bones” as something that should be done every single match is not practical and never was. It may not take long to cleanse 1 totem, but cleansing 5 actually takes a significant amount of time. It’s a much better strategy to remember where totems are and go back later if noed comes into play, otherwise you might get 4 and the last one you couldn’t find becomes noed. Will you have some games where all the totems get cleansed? Yeah, but should you have to cleanse 5 totems to possibly prevent 1 perk that might not even exist? I don’t think so.
Boons are another reason now not to cleanse dull totems. Ignoring the fact that COH desperately needs a nerf, with how strong it is right now it’s not worth cleansing a dull totem if it could have been used by a teammate for a blessing.
The actual power level of noed is fine; I just want it to be something that isn’t given to the killer for doing nothing. If it is changed in this regard, then I would even be okay with making it stronger in return.
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Survivors: Doing bones in impossible! There's five of them and 4 of us! We don't have the time!
Also Survivors: Infinite Circle Of Healing goes brrrrr!
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1. Shouldn't it take a lot of work to stop 1 of 4 perks from activating at all in a match? I mean, that's a pretty big thing to be able to do, I can't light 5 totems and remove DH from the match as killer, but as survivor I can completely remove a killer perk before I ever have to deal with it, that's a really big deal. As you yourself noted, you dont have to destroy every totem to stop noed, you can simply remember and check after if it activates.
2. Noed doesn't override boons, so if anything the new boon perks make it easier to stop noed, by taking possible spawns out. If 3 of the 5 dulls on the map have been booned, noed is going to be on one of the other 2. Not only that but everyone on your team sees the totem when it is booned, so you know where it is if the killer does snuff it out and it becomes the noed totem later (which is rare)
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That's not a bad idea
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That would make it useless. If you can just see where it is and cleanse it as soon as it's up and running, it'll go from being marginally useful and essential to certain builds to being plain worthless.
It's one of those perks like DH where the game is better with it, and it's strong, but there's no way to nerf it without ruining it.
And again, it's an opt-in situation in most cases. You can get the gates open before the killer gets a second down, and then it's your choice whether to keep playing a game with NOED in play. And there's still an easy counter, which is to go find NOED and remove it, which shouldn't be hard to do since the killer is probably hanging around the hook waiting for you to do what most survivors do and run towards him in a kamekazi attack.
It doesn't stop people from trying. Had a couple today where 4-5 totems got cleansed each.
I was running Pentimento.
It was fun.
This is actually a good point. And, to its credit, I did have a couple of games where they did all or most of the totems today. 4Kd them, including one with Legion on Haddonfield. They accomplished it, but it WAS a waste of time on their part, whereas they actually get something worthwhile out of spamming boon totems all over the ######### map.
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