Leatherface masks removal
I don't recall ever seeing any hateful activity to do with the Leatherface masks or discussed in the community.
But even if it is occurring its not an issue with the cosmetics (as a reminder Leatherface isn't racist or sexist in who he kills and wears the face of) and removing the cosmetic isn't the right answer,
When people using the LGBT charm were targeted it wasn't removed.
Instead the people being hateful were banned, this situation shouldn't be any different.
And the compensation iridescent shards are just insulting, if these masks that can only be obtained by playing hours and hours of gameplay using a paid only character absolutely have to be removed the compensation should be at least 400 auric cells so they can be used to buy at least a single cosmetic peace of choice.
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Auric cells for something that was ultimately free? Say what you want about the decision, but that's unreasonable.
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The harassment was well documented. Just because you personally did not see or experience it does not mean that it didn't happen.
Leatherface players were specifically wearing the blackface mask to target POC and characters of color. Nobody was using the LGBT charm to carry out attacks. They were victims of harassment, not the ones carrying it out. I 100% believe you understand this distinction and are just here to troll or play the contrarian for the sake of it.
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The artist of the cosmetic is happy it was removed. If he doesn't want his art being used for hate and is happy to have it removed than I think it's the right choice.
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I honestly dont underastand. Now tapp and other dude has to get skin tone change so it wont provoke anti BLM
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the masks aren't free at all, they're part and package of a paid only DLC that requires a large time sink to unlock.
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The harassment barely happened. Let’s be honest. We are talking about a handful of cases where some douche recognised an opportunity to troll someone, but everyone makes it out to be an epidemic because of a few Reddit/discord screencaps.
Sure, any harassment is bad, but is removing legitimate content from the game appropriate response? A handful of people get priority over the vast majority. We may as well remove Claudette too. Some gimp somewhere has used her to be racist, that’s guaranteed. It’s the same thing, no? Where is the outrage? We need some Reddit screencaps!
I don’t actually care for the masks, but it’s a shame seeing companies bullied into removing content from their games. You have to try to see the funny side though. It’s sort of racist to remove them, right? If you think about it, we are singling out minorities, telling them that they can’t handle it. That’s a sad state of affairs.
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I'm not saying it didn't happen full stop but from what I can tell from the posts around this removal what's been documented is an amount of isolated incidents you could count on your hand that blew up on socials, an easily manageable quantity of incidents that could be dealt with through bans.
the LGBT charm was being used to identify, focus and insult those who were/supporting LGBT and was arguably a more widespread issue, Behaviour could have solved that problem through deleting the charm but instead solved it through reports and bans
I'm genuinely not here to "troll or play the contrarian", I just think this is both the wrong and lazy way of fixing this issue, the people spreading hate get away without repercussions and will just move on to doing something else similar and they get the satisfaction that they made big enough ripples to have content people paid for removed from the game.
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I mean, while its understandable that an artist doesn't want his name associated with racism it doesn't mean its the right decision to remove the cosmetics rather than properly moderating the game to ensure the small minority of players being hateful while using the cosmetics are banned.
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It's ridiculous, but it is what it is.
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Removing the masks removes the racists ability to amplify their hate. Having the ability to make Bubba essentially have blackface was easy way for racists to get their kicks. Removing the masks makes it harder for them to get their racist message across - it's like locking your car door to avoid theft, only those really intent on stealing are going to go out of their way to break the window but most won't put effort in past checking if the car is unlocked. Now if players want to be racist they'll have to try harder to get their message across, the ones being racist because it was easy to toss on mask and in endgame go "lol I'm racist" are just going to move on because they'll actually need to put in effort.
I'm sure this isn't a this or that situation. Removing the masks doesn't mean they won't still ban people outing themselves as racist in endgame chat - it's pretty ignorant to think that would be the case. There have also been complaints for years about this mask and players using it to harass POC players - BHVR probably tried moderating while trying to keep the masks in game but unfortunately racists keep coming into the game.
This is also licensed content so the license holder would have to agree for BHVR to remove the masks. It's a bad look if their character is being associated with racism thanks to a mask that isn't necessary to the game. The license holder probably didn't need too much convincing, especially when they have a Texas Chain Saw Massacre game in the works - don't need "blackface Bubba" popping up in searches and tainting brand new game.
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Here’s a happy cookie.
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The virtue signaling will continue until player counts improve.
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Your privilege is showing. Your claim that the harassment barely happened because YOU personally were unaware of it means literally nothing. Fog Whisperers and streamers have caught video evidence of it happening. It's been documented. Do some research
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And THOSE players who did this are the ones that should be punished for it. I have 1800 hours in this game and I have never even seen a cannibal use any of those cosmetics let alone harass anyone with them. And even if they did, again, punish the individual and not everyone who owns them because of the stupid actions of a few. This is ridiculous and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play killer and really hates the cannibal.
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Ah, of course! The “privilege” buzzword. Your crystal ball is telling you that I’m a privileged individual…I best shut my mouth 😂
The simple reality is the harassment barely happened. It was a few instances over the course of 5+ years. That’s it. To remove content for over 99% of the playerbase over such a niche situation is a huge overreaction no matter how your slice it.
Want to know a better solution? Just ban the individuals engaging in the harassment. Job done! But no. We have to stick a bandaid on it instead, whilst giving the finger to fans of the content.
You can’t censor or remove every little thing that could potentially be used to engage in harassment. It’s literally impossible. The only solution is to have a proper report system in place.
Next we’ll be removing Claudette, you wait and see 🤪
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thing is the smartface cosmetic in of itself isn't the problem as it really isn't blackface, the Devs themselves have even voiced that in the past.
leatherface doesn't discriminate in who he kills eats and wears the face of, it entirely fits in his law to have these cosmetics.
the real problem is how people are behaving and dead by daylights lacklustre report and banning systems.
it's like locking your car door to avoid theft, only those really intent on stealing are going to go out of their way to break the window but most won't put effort in past checking if the car is unlocked.
To give a better example, if a government was getting reports of people using paint to blackface in real life it'd be a bit stupid if they banned the sale of black paint rather than just increasing policing resource to tackle the problem.
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Not_queen in a podcast with Sistas of the Fog said it's blackface. Here's the clip fo her saying it's blackface.
No one is saying Leatherface as a character is racist, everyone is saying it is the players using the Claudette mask as a way to have blackface in the game and harass poc players that are the racists. Literally saying the racist players are using it as a tool to amplify their racism.
A government banning sales of a color of paint is not a good example of a private company removing an item that is being used as a tool for racists - which is something companies do to separate themselves from hate groups, Fred Perry in 2020 pulled a shirt/logo from sale after the Proud Boys started using it. You're just using an exaggerated example to try and invalidate not only the decision but the players that have been affected by the harassment.
Again, removing the masks does not mean that 1. They have not already been moderating when the complaints have been around for years or 2. Will not continue to moderate. Assuming it was a this or that situation where they either removed the masks or moderated is an ignorant take that is being used to invalidate the decision. Removing the masks is only one part of the solution - it stops the lazy racists and it helps limit the amount of harassment these players are receiving in the first place in order to have the moderation take place.
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It was a set of masks intended to be a fun bonus for sacrificing the original 4 characters. Racists ruined it. Blame them. Move on.
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I'd just like to add to this, this is not an impossible problem to moderate, a few banhammers where hateful activity crops up and possibly some better reporting tools would be a massively successful.
If someone has there account banned they not only have to rebuy the game and the leatherface DLC but also have to not only matchmake with but also sacrifice one of the original characters 25 times each as leatherface to unlock the masks only to play one or two matches being racist and then get banned again
and that's if the dev's don't straight up block they're IP
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Why doesn't BHVR change it to be Claudette's glasses instead? LeatherFace wears her glasses, and it ain't black face no more.
And if it has to still be removed, just remove Claudette's.
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I've gotten plenty of players as both Killer and Survivor, that use the LGBT charm and be toxic.
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They don't have to remove them. They just have to change Claudette's to something else in order for racists to lose their toy.
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The thing is, removing the masks is a extreme response when they could just change/alter Claudette's.
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Or changing Claudette's mask to be her glasses.
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Or change Claudette's mask to be a patchwork face consisting of multiple survivors. Or replace all four masks with patchwork faces.
But just removing all four masks, deleting a cool unique feature that was exclusive to Bubba? That sucks.
Edit: You know, it would be pretty funny to see Bubba with glasses. The more I picture it the more I want it lol.
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That would be nice if he wore a token of the character, like glasses for Dwight or Claude. Not sure how that would translate for Meg or Jake. However, they made their decision and the artist who created the cosmetics is happy for the removal, so I'm inclined to agree.
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i'd be okay with that, people only seem to be taking issue with the smartface cosmetic so it make more sense to just edit/remove just that one.
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Except... its not black face. Its a killer who's theme it is to wear the face of his victims. There can be NO argument made that the smartface cosmetic is intrinsically racist or offensive. These are fictional characters and people need to realize the difference between fiction and reality. I'm pretty sure in the fictional setting leatherface doesn't give a crap what color your skin is. And again, if its the PLAYERS causing problems with it as you said then the PLAYERS doing it need to be held accountable. This is a non issue made into an issue by people who think there is something intrinsically offensive about a cosmetic that literally fits the theme of the killer. If things are said in the post game chat that are racist or someone goes into someone's stream and says racist things that is one thing but within the trial there is nothing racist about using any cosmetic on a killer and interacting with any survivor.
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Can you believe guys? Christmas! Only a week away!
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Devs now see it as blackface (as Not Queen said in that clip) and as a tool used by racists to harass players. As of mid-chapter patch it will be gone. No argument on why some players want to keep it will change that, especially after multiple news sources have reported "Dead by Daylight removes Leatherface mask over blackface complaints."
As for lore excuse DBD Fog Whisperer Milady Confetti did a great video on that.
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Its not... intrinsically... racist or offensive. The title of that video you linked me is "Blackface Leatherface: Stop using Lore to 'disguise' your racism." No one who is arguing from the lore as to why its not racist is a racist. That is such a heinous thing to say or assume about someone. I'm not a racist and neither is anyone who doesn't want these cosmetics removed. The people that caused problems with them don't care that they are being removed. This isn't a win for anyone but the trolls. No one who ever used these cosmetics in game is a racist unless they blatantly said something racist after the match.
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Did you watch the video or did you just get offended by the title? Kind of like how a black person may get offended seeing a literal black face worn by a white man in a game? If you haven't you should watch the video because it is very informative.
It's a win for the black players that won't be reminded of a terrible intrinsically racist history of black face everytime they have a match against a smart face Bubba.
It's nice for you that you don't find the mask to be racist but there are enough that do, including the devs, that it's getting removed. When you wear it as killer you don't even see the cosmetic - the only people seeing the cosmetic are the survivors, survivors that may be black and are reminded about the horrible history of blackface and racism in real life as they spend an entire match trying to not get killed by a white man literally wearing a black face.
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Leatherface's skin color is irrelevant to his FICTIONAL DESIGN. You literally ignored that aspect of him and made it about his skin color. Leatherface is a psychopathic killer. The things he does match his character. As I said and as you keep ignoring, there is NOTHING intrinsically offensive about the cosmetics or any killer players using them. You want it to be racist when its not. You're trying to find racism where it doesn't exist. If a person can't discern between fiction and reality then that is their problem. Also, since when the hell do you speak for black people who play this game? Let them speak for themselves because I am quite certain not every black person who plays this game was offended by these cosmetics so please stop speaking like you're the spokesperson of all black people who play DBD. I don't care if you watch a few youtube videos of people trying to explain how these cosmetics are somehow offensive. A lot of people play this game and their voice matters just as much as the next regardless if they are a streamer, youtuber or whatever. The definition of racism is changing everyday to include things that are not intrinsically offensive and when this happens innocent people who are not racist by any means are being made out to be racist which is heinous and wrong so forgive me for not caring what someone has to say in a video with a title like that.
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Many black players have spoken up and given evidence to BHVR of smartface being racist and being used as a tool for racism. Many non-black players agreed and spoke up to BHVR. BHVR has agreed that the mask is blackface and a tool for racism so the mask is being removed.
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Then THOSE players who were reported for doing the abusive actions should have been banned for it. They can do what they want with their game, it doesn't mean it was the right choice and that everyone is going to agree with them. You say a lot of players are speaking up about the cosmetic being racist, but that doesn't make it intrinsically offensive. A lot of players are also speaking up and saying how it is wrong to remove them and they need to be heard as well. You tried to argue leatherface being white as being a problem with the smartface cosmetic in a previous reply. Being white is not intrinsically evil. Leatherface doing the things he does makes him evil. I'm sick of people trying to make an argument around someone being white as being the foundation of something being racist. That is actually racist. I feel like people have forgotten what the word racist means and make up their own definitions for it.
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BHVR is both removing the blackface cosmetic that is being used as a tool to spread hate and continuing to ban the players that they have proof are being racist. Mandy has said in other posts they do and will continue to ban those that they have proof of harassing players. Since they can't pre-emptively ban a player they are removing a tool in the game that has been used to amplify racism because it is blackface - BHVR agrees it is blackface and should be removed from the game.
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If someone sees the cosmetic as black face it is just their opinion and not an intrinsic fact. That is the problem I have with this. It isn't intrinsically racist. This is a debate of discernment and personal opinion. So going by this logic, leatherface as a character can never wear the face of a black victim otherwise its black face? Like I said, the fact that there isn't a discernment between fiction and reality with this whole thing is beyond ridiculous. A lot of people are pissed off about this and NONE of them are racist for being pissed off about it.
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You can have whatever opinion you want, BHVR devs have openly stated it is blackface. BHVR says it is blackface and is removing it from their game.
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Yes you've said this many times now. And I still say it is wrong. An opinion about something doesn't make it true. Did they think it was blackface when they made it? See how this is going now? The cosmetic is not intrinsically racist. That IS a fact. Like I said, they can do what they want but its not without backlash as we have seen. A lot of people are pissed about this and none of them are racist. They know the difference between fiction and reality. They know the cosmetic is not racist or offensive.
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Many times people don't realize something is racist due to naivety and ignorance. Once they learn something is racist they then change their views. While BHVR originally may not have realized it was blackface and could be used as a tool to amplify racism when it was first brought into the game they have stated they do now and are removing the cosmetic from their game.
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Except its not ignorance to not see it as racist. It literally is not racist. Now you're implying everyone who doesn't see it as racist is ignorant. Do you realize what this does for creative work going forward? Story writers are going to worry about making a black character the victim of anything in their horror stories out of fear someone will scream racism. I don't care how many times you reply to me and say the same thing over and over, I'm going to tell you the same thing every time, which is the TRUTH. The cosmetic is NOT intrinsically racist. That is a fact and your OPINION that it isn't is just that, an opinion.
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You're treating your opinions as facts. The facts are BHVR has called the mask blackface (see video with Not Queen) and BHVR has said it has been used to harass players (see dev update) so BHVR are removing the masks (dev update and patchnotes).
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No. I'm not. I'm stating a fact as a fact. You're blatantly ignoring it because you have a bias opinion on the matter. BHVR can say what they want and do what they want with their game, as I said already. That doesn't make anything intrinsically true and it doesn't mean it won't come without backlash, which it has. That is the point I am making. People know that the cosmetic is not racist, so there is backlash on the change which there should be. Just because a few players used the cosmetic a certain way and said certain things after the match doesn't make the cosmetic itself racist. Why don't you see that? We're talking about a fictional character who has a characteristic of wearing the face of his victims. The idea of one of his victims being black makes it intrinsically racist is ridiculous.
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You are projecting saying I have a bias when really it is you with the bias while continuing to state your opinions are facts when they are not facts. The history of blackface makes blackface intrinsically racist and Leatherface never wore a black person's face in the movies so your statement on what he would/wouldn't do is just an assumption not fact. You can keep stating your opinions and claiming they are facts but that won't change the facts BHVR has stated and the masks will still be removed because of the facts BHVR had stated.
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Nope. You literally are being bias because it is a literal fact that the cosmetic itself is not intrinsically (please look up this word) racist. You keep trying to say I am just giving an opinion, but I'm not saying how I personally feel about it. That is what YOU are doing. I care about the truth and the truth is this whole thing is a non issue that was made into an issue by people who think an in game cosmetic for a fictional character is somehow racist. YOU'RE the one trying to say your OPINION is a fact on this issue. But you don't get to redefine words or change reality based on your feelings. I care about the truth. When people try to use their feelings to create their own truth then I have a problem.
Also I highly doubt leatherface would look at a black victim and think to himself "oh no not them because they're black." You have to make a better argument then that if you're trying to convince anyone you're right. There is a reason people are pissed off about this and they are not racist.
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Her Logic ends in the result of non-White non-Female Characters not having unlockable masks (If it is to be a direct association to the IRL Lore of Ed Gein). Not the removal of all Masks. (And also fails to address the scenario in which Ed Gein's mother was Black, would Smartface be acceptable then?)
It should be noted that there are varying "types" of lore depending on a person's perspective, some that come to mind are:
- Lore behind IRL Ed Gein
- Lore behind the IRL creation of the character of Leatherface
- Lore behind Leatherface in the Leatherface Universe
- Lore behind the inclusion and design of Leatherface into IRL DBD
- Lore behind Leatherface in the DBD Universe.
Most "Bad Actors" use the Lore of Leatherface in the Leatherface Universe as the "excuse" for Smartface's inclusion, in which they are technically correct about. Leatherface was indiscriminate, it was likely just implicit bias during the creation of The Chainsaw Massacre in which there was no inclusion of a marginalized person's face used as a mask.
"Hansen later added, "The idea of the mask is that there is no personality under the mask. That was the idea in talking with Tobe and Kim. When they created the character, they said he has to put on masks to express himself because he himself can't do it. The way we tried to create him, there is nothing under the mask, which is what makes him so frightening."
I would also classify Milady Confetti as a "Bad Actor" for literally using racist logic in that Leatherface should not be allowed to use a facemask of a marginalized person because Ed Gein's mother was white, (so only white people would be acceptable).
In the end I do support the decision to remove them as most people are stupid and more concerned about skin color than the actual meaning behind things. (Such as the historical context or symbolism of blackface which Milady Confetti literally handwaves away as not important in her video).
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When will black characters be able to be included in fiction the same way white people are without fear of something that happens to them being considered racist?
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Look up the history of blackface and you will see it is intrinsically racist. Within the comments you got offended by a title of a YouTube video, my saying Leatherface as a white man is wearing a literal blackface, and my saying people can be naive/ignorant about blackface. Your responses are opinion based on your feelings and it shows very clearly. You can keep believing the Claudette mask isn't blackface but BHVR after learning more about what constitutes blackface has stated it is and are removing it from the game - they'd rather the backlash from the few upset over the removal than keep something used to amplify racism in their game.
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Racism is Closely associated with Blackface, not intrinsically. If you do not think that makes a significant difference, then please be understanding that some people have different thought processes than others and this kind of distinction is extremely important.
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It is not intrinsically racist. I will say this forever. News flash, not all black people think alike and share the same views and opinions. I know shocker right? It turns out not all black people like to be kept in a victim mentality. And what if a black person comes along and says the cosmetic is not offensive? Are they wrong? Does their voice matter? Are they racist? This has to stop being a universal thing every time something like this comes up. It needs to be handled on an individual basis.
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