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Boil over buff shows killers are hypocritical
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exactly this ^
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And survivors hate slugging...no one wins
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Yeah...cause a 3 second "nerf" is "nerfing it into the ground" 😒
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Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong
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Bruh, the killer LITERALLY has to go out of his way to snuff the totem if you put it in an already completed gen area
Gosh, i don't understand how people don't see this kinda stuff
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I just strafe as a killer, it's a free agitation if you time it well
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Cages go brrrrrrr
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sluzzy and an us vs them post, name a better duo
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I know it's a Sluzzy post and that it's satire, but sadly it's not entirely wrong.
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Yep notice how there is no DMS complaints? Nutty with that scourge perk. Encounter one swf and its to hell with all of us 😫
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Survivor also have to "go out of their way" to look for totems, and they waste much more time doing so.
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Yeah, because 14 seconds of cleansing is the same as 1 second of snuffing,
well it definitely isn't. After your 14 seconds the totem is gone, the killer can't come by and re-hex it, or hex any other totem, they just lose that perk for the rest of the game.
because 0.5 meter sound radius of hex is the same as 16m radius of boon's sound.
4 players to 1, and again, snuffing a boon is temporary as a totem can be reblessed as often as the survivors would like.
We've heard all this before, these gymnastics never change.
Maybe the reason you keep hearing the same response is simply because it is true and logical? Nah, couldn't be that, just just be those darn killer mains being mean again, right?
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Dude, if you compare Boons to Hexes, you will see some advantages of those and some disadvantages. You lose some, you gain some. Yes, they can be relit repeatedly, but they have so many huge disadvantages compared to hexes. It never stops surprising me how some people can be so biased in favor of one side they only see what is bad for them, completely ignoring everything they have advantage in.
It's like with totem and gate spawns: killer mains complain about "bad" or "survivor-sided" spawns, ignoring completely those occurrences where they get lucky and the spawns are actually killer-sided, like totems behind seven textures or gates right next to another. I don't say this specific design is perfect, but at least it's somewhat fair: it can work for both sides, depending on your luck.
Same goes for hexes themselves: killer mains keep crying about "my ruin going down within first minute!" ignoring completely those dozens of matches they won with Devoure staying up for 5 tokens, or got an extra free kill with NOED, because soloQ can't cleanse all totems efficiently.
Same goes for kills themselves: when you have to earn fair 2k out of 4, it's "sweatfest" and "the game is broken", but when you get 12 4k's in a row - it's "chilly balanced gameplay, I enjoy that". A killer can get a long row of 4k's, taking it as granted, but when it gets interrupted by one 4-man SWF who get a 4escape, the killer gets upset and thinks the game is survivor sided.
And here we are again. Yes, the boons can be relit indefinitely. But if you have a survivor who only relits totems for the whole game - you have 3vs1, because that Mikaela is not doing anything else. You get some, you lose some, that's how balancing works. Boons have a ton of disadvantages compared to hexes, and killer mains just keep ignoring them, only focusing their rhetoric on that one small side where they have a slight disadvantage. "It's not fair until we have advantage in literally every field, no compromises with THEM, WE come first!". This black & white worldview is poisoning the community.
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What disadvantages are those, exactly? You keep saying there are tons, but have yet to mention a single one.
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You decided to forget what you replied to earlier? Ok, I can repeat:
14 second cleanse vs 1 second snuff
Nonexistent sound radius vs noise you can hear from the other side of the map
14 seconds + some time to find a dull to bless vs instant activation on hex
Effect within a small area vs effect on the whole map.
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My mistake, I thought you had actual disadvantages that made it so that people didn't bring the perk, not just the normal type of pros and cons literally all perks have.
But I do love the idea that you are here seriously trying to claim a boon like CoH should cover the entire map.
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So now you accept that boons are completely balanced, with all their pros and cons?
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Not what I said at all, but keep trying.
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You said boons are OP because they have 1 (one) advantage. I listed all the disadvantages they have. You said "okay, those are just pros & cons". Yes, one "pro" with a bunch of severe "cons", but apparently still OP because of that one "pro". At this point you are contradicting yourself for the sake of continuing arguing instead of accepting the obvious, or just plainly trolling.
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14 second cleanse vs 1 second snuff. Yes. That's how things tend to work out in a 1v4 game. The player with a team of 1 needs his actions to (generally) take less time, as they have to account for 4 players.
Sound radius. Yes again, that's part of it being 1v4, but seriously any killer out trying to hunt down boons by sound is spending a lot of time not chasing Survivors and pressuring gens, which helps the survivor team. Also you can't hear the sound from across the map, it's smaller than standard TR.
14 seconds to bless and have to find totem. Yup, meaning that you get to choose where the boon goes (killers get to hope RNGesus helps them out there). I suppose they could have done that like hex perks (where a random totem just starts as your one boon) , but given that boons are AoE, that change would end up being a nerf to survivors, and an unnecessary one at that.
Covers an area, instead of being map-wide. Yes, because CoH would be absolutely insane if it covered the entire map, especially when multiple survivors can bless multiple totems indefinitely, turning it into the worst game of whack a mole ever. Even exponential and shadow step (which are currently wonderfully balanced boon perks) would be broken if they covered the entire map.
So if those are the disadvantages? Well then I guess it makes sense that every single survivor match I've played since the witch came out has at least 2 teammates running boon perks.
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None of those cons are serious at all.
As far as pros?
1. Able to be relit indefinitely.
2. Able to choose where they go.
3. Able to be seen across the map and through floors and walls, so all survivors can see the area instantly.
4. Provides a tertiary objective to keep the killer from pressuring either gens or survivors as they hunt for the totem.
5. Perk works for entire team, even if they haven't unlocked that perk themselves.
And that's just in general. If we look at the only boon that killers consistently complain about here (CoH) we get.
6. Removes the need for medkits or self care for the entire survivor team to heal themselves (golden in solo q, where your teammates can be as likely to lead the killer to you as heal you).
7. Provides an almost instant healing with medkits (easily found in chests) and other healing perks. (Destroying Oni's ability to get blood orbs, and removing pressure from many "high mobility" killers)
But hey, now it takes 2-3 seconds longer per heal, so as per your original post in this thread, clearly it's been "nerfed into the ground"
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Sluzzy PogU
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The problem is, if the perk gets nerfed then whats the point in it in the first place....
If you put hooks everywhere that a killer can get to them then again, whats the point, youd never get any value.
Ive had multiple 4 man teams run it against me as killer and tbh i havent had any issues with it.
The biggest issue is remembering where nearest hooks are. E.g on dead dawg right on the corner, i remembered where so i even dropped down and got the hook instantly.
Thompson house has one upstairs, the killer i went against didnt remember that so complained i was using boilover and its unfair... i told him theres a hook on the landing by the gen you just didnt see it.
Its an annoying perk, but i think it wont become the norm for long. People are just experimenting with it to see if its useful.
Id say its probably not gonna be in my build for long as most games i get absolutely no value from it.
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You can study where they spawn and stop by the spot to check on the next gen
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To be fair you complain about ruin, undying, and tinker all the time yet how come you don't use Counterforce to find all the totems or detectives hunch.
Also Boil Over isn't op it's more just annoying cause maps like RPD, Eyrie of Crows, Disturbed Ward, or even Dead Dawg it can be abused to just stay in a safe spot and all that will result in the survivors not doing anything and end up being slugged all game if they keep going to these safe spots.
If they're on the ground or in a high spot with hook in reach it's not that bad but, if a survivor is just going into safe spots cause they know they can't get hook than it becomes a problem.
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Why am I not surprised. New Boil Over is just fine. I cannot count how many times I was very close to getting off or reached 100% and still got hooked in the basement or otherwise. Killer mains love to dictate the entire game…including how survivors choose to try to survive in the game. Killers hate waiting for bleedouts well I hate being camped and tunnel with 0 popped gens. Some of y’all need to get over yourselves and adjust your gameplay. Boil Over is easily countered, there are 3 survivors left on the map don’t dedicate to the one running into the two level structure duh.
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Tinkerer can be countered with Spine Chill, which also counter stealthy killers.
BBQ is overused because it can potentially reduce the grind to half, not because it's OP, anyway, if this perk bother you a lot, you can equip Distortion.
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I basically can't walk if the survivor has Boil Over. I might as well be glued in place for as much distance as I can make. Why did BHVR implement a forced bleed-out perk when survivors always say they hate being slugged?
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Bring map offerings yourself then?
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Trying to save themselves from being hooked, isn't taking a game hostage..
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If a survivor decide to not do objectives and instead lock killers indefinitely in match, it's basically taking a game hostage.
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Forcing a slug is still not the game being taken hostage.
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Eh, no it's not.
If the survivors aren't doing generators - then they aren't going to escape, which means that gives you the perfect option to kill. Whether that's via bleeding them out on the ground, or whether it's via hooking.
So, no, you still have options as a killer.
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Oh boy the back and forth in this thread was entertaining
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The back and forth… like the staggering from Boil Over?
🤣
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Something I find hypocritical are the people saying it's holding the game hostage, but when the killer lets the whole team bleed out that isn't holding the game hostage. (Neither are considered holding it hostage).
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Boil over wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for Boon: Exponential.
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Considering how they can call people hiding in locker indefinite times "taking game hostage", using soul guard and boil over abuse to stay in match for unimaginable amount of time will surely be considered taking game hostage.
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Keep in mind it's Sluzzy. A poster with their tongue so firmly in their cheek that it's coming out of their left ear.
I'm actually more scared of No Mither. I can at least get rid of Unbreakable, but a 3 No Mither+Flip Flop+Boil Over is a bloody nightmare.
Bleed out ends. You can go AFK if you feel like it.
A team of BO+anti-slug can literally hold the game hostage, unless you basically sit and stare at them for the entire duration.
That's the core difference.
Plus - if you don't like BM slugging, make a thread on it. 'Killers can be nasty so we need to be able to be nastier' is a silly argument.
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There are mechanics that prevent people from just camping out in lockers, so how exactly is it taking a game hostage?
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Because there is a way to avoid that mechanics.
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That involves doing what? Actually the opposite?
The only true way that taking the game hostage existed was back when the old hatch mechanic existed.
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No, but if you've built around not staying slugged and not bleeding out, then it is. If the Killer can't hook you, can't bleed you out, can't use moris, or in general effect any lasting change in your status and you refuse to complete your objective and leave, then you're holding the game hostage.
That after over half an hour it might finally end does not actually change that; BHVR has said that playing hide and seek for half an hour but not making any effort to advance the game (because that would be too risky as there's too many gens and you want to get hatch, so wait for the other player to die) counts. Not dying and also not doing gens obviously does too.
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You can not physically make a build to prevent bleeding out.
That is literally impossible, as the only thing that STOPS the bleed out meter is being picked up by the killer. You can't be looped forever either, and there are ways to decrease stagnation if a survivor is to wiggle off. All the survivors can do, is prolong bleeding out - but they can't physically prevent it from happening.
Soul Guard only works if they are actively affected by a hex.
No Mither literally is indicated at the start of the match.
Unbreakable is usable only once.
Exponential can be seen/heard.
Stand over their bodies if you can't take them to a hook. Bring offerings that bring hooks closer. Bring perks that decrease stun duration or wiggle effects. Bring offerings that take you to a map that you prefer.
The survivors CANNOT hold the game hostage by doing a build that makes hooking more difficult because it is STILL possible. The implication that a game is taken hostage, is that you physically cannot do anything against the situation - which isn't true.
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It takes a killer 1/4-1/2 of all their perks to counter Boil Over, which basically only returns them to default gameplay, it doesn't actually provide any sort of realistic benefit.
It takes survivors 1/16 of their perks to completely exploit a map and break the game.
And now everything is easier because there's 2 less stalling, or chase, or endgame perks, because nobody ever gets into a match and goes "oh no, IRON GRASP! IT'S SO STRONG WE'RE LOSING BECAUSE OF IT!"
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This has literally devolved into semantic quibbling.
The spirit of 'holding a match hostage' doesn't mean that it's physically impossible to leave. A killer walling you into a room - you can AFK or DC. A survivor plays hide and seek for an hour? You could potentially find them.
Following the precedent in the rules, all that needs to happen is someone has to deliberately avoid doing their objectives and instead focusing on stalling the game out. This is why 'hide and seek' sulkers are breaking the rules, but bleeding out survivors isn't (although I wish there was a way to prevent this).
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... yes, you can't stop it, but you can prolong it unacceptably far by combining perks and abilities (and SWF teamwork), which is still--as indicated by the devs' own response on a much simpler activity--counted as taking the game hostage.
If the game will only end after half an hour, most of which is spent stood camping one slugged Survivor at a time and knocking them down again when they get back up, that counts.
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Holding the game hostage means that you can't physically do anything to stop it, and it prevents YOU from completing your objective.
Someone running a build that makes hooking difficult is not holding the game hostage, this isn't semantics. You can STILL hook them, you can SLUG them, you can bring perks to help with carrying survivors, you can bring perks that help with stuns, hell, you can even bring offerings to bring hooks closer, or choose a smaller map. You can play killers that can insta-kill (tombstone), you can play killers that void carrying the survivors (pyramid head).
There is no reason to mention any other 'examples' of holding the game hostage when the current example is about running a build that makes hooking more difficult.
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And this is what I mean by semantics.
You've grafted your own definition onto 'holding the game hostage'. I outlined a definition that seems to be closer to what BHVR have laid down in the rules.
You can continue using your own definition, but that's not the definition that has been applied to the game, in this context - and by this, it applies here.
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They bring perks to play that specific style and as I've told YOU, you can bring perks to counter that style.
You can play killers to counter that playstyle, offers, perks, whatever else.
Someone using their perks to pick themselves up, is not taking the game hostage because it isnt stopping YOU from completing the objective. You can still hook them, they can still bleed out and die.
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