Tunneling
Has anyone else noticed a big increase in the amount of tunneling killers the last month or so? Or have i just been very unlucky? It seems like almost every other game the killer will just tunnel one player out the game in the first few minutes. Do the devs condone tunneling? They can't seriously think that tunneling people out of the game is in any way healthy or fun for the person(s) being tunneled, especially right at the start of the match.
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Nah, killers are tunnelling from start to today. It was always strong strategy, so nothing changed. But survivors have BT & DS, so you can punish killers if they do that.
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Idk in a pvp game do you ever really have fun losing when the game isn't built around fun? Like this game can be fun/goofy but 9/10 it's the same chase someone, down them, 1-2 gens get completed, repeat the process. It's very boring and if not just as un-interactive than tunneling someone.
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What? there was a time where killers didn't tunnel? unbelievable, don't lie please.
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In a game where the gens can be completed in 3-4 minutes, can you really complain about dying in 2?
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It's not the losing that bothers me, it's a killer essentially ruining the game for a player(s) by taking them out of the game at the start and essentially wasting that persons time. Game are supposed to be fun aren't they?
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Eh, do you prefer sitting on a gen for 5 minutes and opening gate, then escape than chasing with killer 4 times?
People find fun in many things nowadays.
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"Tunneling" or focusing on one opponent, happens in all team based pvp games. In most you target the healer or support and try your best to keep their game experience to running back repeatedly from their spawn point, just to catch another bullet. In DbD you generally want to pick either the one with boon: CoH (as killing the survivor is the only actual counter) the worst looper, or just whoever keeps going for saves. All depends on the situation.
The complaints about tunneling however, I've only ever seen here. Every other team based multiplayer game I've ever played (and I started on Quake, back when windows 95 was hot #########) people understand that sometimes, you get unlucky and die first. Only here do people feel so entitled that they honestly claim it ruins their fun to die, in a game about being killed.
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Blame the devs. They not only didn't fix the gen time situation, they made it worse. The bigger problem is the SBMMR system that only considers kills. Tunneling a player out of the game will slow down the gens and make it easier to get additional kills. Yes, the devs do condone tunneling, and consider it a valid strategy. The same with camping. On the positive side, that's why Decisive Strike exists.
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Both sides play like this.
You have a gen at 90% and regressing? Watch how survivors always come back to this gen to finish it off.
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Killers camp and tunnel even before anything happens, so the excuse that it is a byproduct of gen rushing is hogwash. Tunneling is a core part of the Dead by Daylight Survivor experience. You are periodically guaranteed to get tunneled independent of what you do or what is happening. I've seen it all; The Killer tunnels after a DC and before the completion of a single generator.
Of course, someone will finish that generator because the investment can regress to zero. If the generator stayed locked at 90%, people wouldn't rush to finish it. On the other hand, a killer's investment in that Survivor doesn't regress because they don't get hooked again fast enough.
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Killer's investment in survivor regress once gates are opened, there is no difference in 2 hooks escape and 0 hook escape, it's either one of dead or escaped.
So, you are somewhat wrong.
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That doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with the narrow quote I was responding to. Read a little more closely before responding.
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I feel like my game is ruined when gens pop in less than 5 minutes and my time is wasted. Do you think the survivors care about that? Nah. They teabag even when you purposely let them live, imagine how they act when they actually earn their escape. Lul.
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It doesn't make any sense?
Killers try to secure progression by killing a survivor before gates opened and they escape, survivors try to secure progression by rushing a generator before it regress to zero, I don't think it's different at all.
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The better example for "regression" might be a health state. If I leave that injured survivor off hook, it will heal up again and undo my work. Just as leaving a regressing generator alone would reverse their efforts. Therefore, tunneling is the only rational course of action that a gen rushing survivor would take and yet they are oh so confused by their own logic.
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Boiled down to the basics, both can be considered tunneling.
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Yes. And it's no fun when you come up against a bodyblocking CoH clicky-clicky flashlight squad and don't even get a single kill because you decided to abandon a strategy that might actually help you win.
Killers tunnel because it works. If you're encountering a lot of tunnelers, it might mean you're moving up in MMR.
I had a game today against an SWF team running all meta perks, purposely didn't tunnel, and lost despite playing relatively well (got a pip and one kill - which I wouldn't have gotten if it weren't for Lightborn). I realized I should have just tunneled, so I started doing that, and I've been winning again.
If you don't take someone out of the game early, you don't stand a chance against good survivors. It's that simple.
Well, the point of tunneling, IMO, is to take a survivor out of the game as early as possible. That's the whole idea, so of course you do it early game if you're going to do it at all.
By the time genrushing has started happening, it's already too late, and you can't tell at the beginning of the game whether you're up against a bunch of Brown-tier solo n00bs or a SWF bully sweat squad. You either take the lead as early as possible, or you gamble on playing an unwinnable game.
Post edited by hailxsatanxeveryxday on5 -
nvm this post
Post edited by hailxsatanxeveryxday on0 -
You still got to play you just failed to evade the killer.
A person doesn't have to let you go just because you find it more fun to live longer.
When you sign up for an elimination game there are games where you will be eliminated early, it happens.
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I'd rather be tunneled than face camped
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This is legit the only PvP game I've ever played in my life where players hold the other side responsible for their personal sense of fun. I struggle to see why tunneling is still Confusing for people to understand especially with the current meta. Is it always 'fun'? No, but so what
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How to spot and entitled survivor main: They complain about tunneling/camping.
These people have access to Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Exponential, Circle of Healing, Borrowed Time, Kindred and so much more tools at their disposal yet will complain about a strategy that the killers use in order to increase their chances of winning.
Its not the killers job to make sure you have "fun" you entitled survivors, its the killers job to SPOILER: Kill you. If you want wholesome fun go play checkers or tic-tac-toe or better yet, how about you just git gud?
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Because not all survivors want to use 4 second chances. Why so aggressive?
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It's true that Killers have always Tunneled... But that was less apparent then it is now
Boon: Circle of Healing had a lot to do with it... on top of BT and DS
And less rewarding Killer perks... the last rewarding perk was Corrupt Intervention (and that was released around 2 years ago)
Also it seems like the Hit and Run strategy has fallen off cause of COH and healing in general
And Gen speeds are just as fast if not faster then they have ever been
Oh and the nerfing of Killers have something to do with it
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I don't think it's more aggressive than people calling anyone whos doing their job "toxic" or "bad" or "ruining other side's fun".
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At the end of the day, if the killer considers the "fun" of a surv, that is a courtesy, a nicety.
The killer is in no way, shape, or form obligated to do anything but kill all four survivors in the most expedient fashion they can. If they choose to drum what they feel is the weakest (or strongest) link out of the game right out of the chute, thems the breaks.
The same way survs are not obligated not to pound out all 5 gens and gtfo the match.
You can argue about whether or not that is good for game health in an asymmetrical 4v1 game, but that isn't the point, and a lot of people should really lose the entitlement. Not just for the sake of others, but your own stress levels will go down if you aren't carrying all that expectation (and the inevitable sense of being wronged when they aren't met) around with you.
You were dead four minutes into the trial? That's annoying af, but oh well, on to the next.
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the fact of the matter is that without "The ping pong method" a killer WILL LOSE. If the killer hooks everyone once and then everyone a second time and gets their first kill on their 9th hook they have already lost the match. A killer must have their first kill by no later than their 6th or 7th hook.
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If tunnelling and camping are so bad, just play SWF with people of similar skill level to you. You're going to steamroll most killers no matter the cheese tactics they use.
This isn't a comment on balance, but a comment on how good killers actually are they ceaselessly use these approaches. Most of them waste two minutes on their first chase and have adopted this 'optimal' strategy because they're just not capable of doing good without it. A well rounded SWF will easily beat this. So if you're looking to have your fun not ruined, do that. Maybe run Meta perks too if you really want the whining killers to know their place.
Just, please, don't whine that they owe you fun. They're clearly not here to have fun either ( the winning = fun argument is often coming off as huge copium ) if they're tunnelling and camping. You shouldn't care about each other's fun unless you actually want to. Some people are skilled enough to, others are just indifferent to the result.
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Yet majority of them do...funny how that works huh?
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Post edited by A_Gamers_Dead_Body on1 -
Yet majority of them do...funny how that works huh?
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Yes, it doesn't make sense. I narrowly tailored my reply to a specific post; your response is broad and doesn't address the point.
No, it's not. If I injure a Survivor, it makes sense to continue pursuing them until they get downed and hooked. Otherwise, The Killer can lose that investment. After that, you don't have to continue following the Survivor. They've fulfilled their investment in that Survivor via the hook state. If a Survivor heals after a hook, I do not consider that a loss. Sure it's easier to pursue an injured Survivor, but it's unnecessary. If you think one hit should equal death, then yes, tunneling makes sense. That comes down to opinion and entitlement, much like Survivors that think five generators mean escape. As the killer, I don't tunnel nor need to, but it's clear you do, so you're trying to explain yourself. It changes nothing for me.
You can use any term you want; I focused on necessity. People try to equate completing one generator with death; I don't see it this way. It comes down to opinion and approach. I don't tunnel, camp, or slug, so I also don't need to justify those things the same way others do. Many play this way and get offended when others call it out, so they try to defend their actions.
I understand WHY people tunnel. That was never in dispute. In some cases, it makes sense, but I often see tunneling when it is unnecessary, so not everyone "only tunnels" during those moments. Some players have a propensity to tunnel independent of what's happening. Tunneling is here to stay, but that doesn't mean people can't express discontent over it. It also doesn't mean that it is good for the game or the experience.
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Not defending anything. But in my eyes, gens are to the killer what hook stages are for survivors. Once a certain amount has been reached, the game is over.
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It's not anyone's job to make sure the other side has fun, this is a slasher game if I want to tunnel slug and camp for 5 gens then I will, and if I want to gen rush and click and tbag at the exit gates I will and I don't care how upset anyone gets, if they're too immature to handle a loss in a video game then maybe they shouldn't be playing.
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Not you, in general. I agree that hook states are generators, but some think a single hit should result in death.
I can't entirely agree that it is over; I've seen as much as eight hooks with four gens left and Survivors escape. Likewise, both doors opened, and a 2-4k lol It's not over 'til it's over!
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Tunneling has been very common since I started playing.
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It ruins your game when you have to do chases? I thought survivors said gen repairing was boring and they enjoyed chases? If someone is getting caught then downed so fast that their games are being ruined, it's a skill issue. Also Fortnite is way way way way way more popular than DBD and you can die at the very start of that. Someones gotta be the first to get eliminated. Yet no one goes around crying that their game was ruined and everyone else was a big meanie for daring to eliminate them first. They just go on to their next game and also improve so they don't end up dead the second they drop. DBD is the only game I know of where people have the gall to say their game was ruined because they messed up and died early due to skill issues.
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That's the thing, games no longer have this "Games are supposed to be fun" thing anymore. That only really applied to single player games i.e. the old sonic games, crash bandicoot etc. Pvp games really shouldn't follow that ideology so closely as in a pvp games it naturally breeds more of a competitive/not fun mindset no matter the game.
You can't logically make a pvp game such as dbd fun for everyone. Their formula just is nothing you can do about unless you make one side too weak. Look at clashroyale, people mald at that over stupidly good/annoying decks. Overall it's not logical to call for a pvp game to "be fun" in the capacity that you want.
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I think avoiding tunneling is the job of the survs not the killers. and the more i play, the more i find the macro of how to tunnel and how to pick targets etc. Interesting
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Given how BHVR have categorically stated that for the killers, kills are all that counts or matters (via MMR's scoring mechanism that only rewards kills) it's not surprising that killers are focusing on taking someone completely out of the game rather than leaving them in. By improving the odds they greatly increase their chance of moving up in MMR.
Additionally, the introduction of CoH has made it impossible to play Hit & Run anymore, if you're going to chase a survivor you can't leave them until they're hooked, so tunnelling and camping will also increase given how easy and quick it is to reset health with zero investment in perks or time for 3/4 of the survivors' team.
CoH is also the only boon that works best when the killer is nowhere near it - Shadowstep adds little value except for the aura-hiding if the killer is on the other side of the map for instance as does the anti-slug one, but CoH is worst when the killer is near/inside it's radius and best when the killer is on the other side of the map. Once more, incentive for the killer to go after one survivor and take them out.
So complain to BHVR about their encouragement of tunnelling and camping via MMR and CoH.
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If i get 8 hooks with 4 gens up, than the survivors i face are way below my skill level. Unless they are super cocky, i´ll let them finish the gens and let them go. Even though, i have to admit, that sometimes survivors don´t appreciate this act and instead get toxic in the endgame chat.
But then, survivors shouldn´t be surprised when they get less and less "nice" killers.
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welcome to mmr. this casual game of dbd can't be played without full meta perk builds and a 4 man on comms
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Funny how competitive DBD is actually a lot more fun since you get more points for getting 1st hooks on people and less for progression (just face camping on hook)
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I think that if killers want to tunnel then if the whole lobby left then they would stop the tunneling. I just had a killer that went out of their way to tunnel another player would not chase anyone else until that player was dead. then he tunneled me the same way.
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It's always been this way, but ever since they nerfed DS it's gotten noticeably worse.
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I can handle the face camping but everyone should be able to play and earn their points too most of these killers are over powered and don't need to tunnel
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I do notice that if you leave the game and then watch the rest of that game they stop the tunneling
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Hahaha what?
There are maybe...two killers that are overpowered - and even then, at the tourney level, they come out at about even with the stronger SWF teams.
The rest range from 'good' to 'terrible'.
Well, duh. They've now succeeded in their goal of removing someone early.
It's always been this way because...that's how this game is played at higher levels, and this trickles down to everyone else. Ie. the meta.
Against a good SWF, if you don't get someone out by the time 3 gens are done, you've probably lost. Again - go watch some tournaments or higher MMR streams.
It's not the killer's responsibility to distribute damage across the team. It's your responsibility to play cautiously, and your allies' responsibility to protect you.
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I remain convinced that “tunneling” is a mostly meaningless buzzword at this point. There’s no consensus on what it is let alone how it would even be a problem in the first place, and the great majority of the time a survivor complains to me about “tunneling” in chat it boils down to that I hooked them twice in a row or continued chasing them after I injured them. It’s just sore losing.
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The problem is, that all survivors don't have BT & DS. I would agree that tunneling isn't a problem if there were built in counters to it, but there aren't. You have went through a pay-wall to get DS, then you have to equip DS and your teammate has to go through a pay-wall to get BT and they have to have BT equiped. (When I say pay walls, I mean bloodpoint and/or cash depending on the perk).
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