General Discussions
General Discussions
Worst Designed Killer In The Game?
So, the other list.
I'm going to exclude Legion and Ghostpants here, as they are getting a rework.
- The Onryo. Man, to see this killer released after the amazing work BHVR did on Artist...weak. Of the three components of her kit, only one feels impactful (and her teleports still have a punishing cooldown, super simple counterplay and a huge RNG component). Everything else sucks. Her stealth is niche at best and Condemn is about as impactful as a pillow stuffed with marshmallows. Her addons are also a mixture of 'why isn't this baseline?' and 'why bother?' with only a few decent ones.
- The Pig. Sigh. Her rework mostly amounted to shuffling a few addons around. She is the worst of both worlds - either horribly weak or required to play incredibly scummy to win. Also a lot of 'this should be baseline?' addons, particularly those involving her ambush.
- The Cannibal. Having a killer that feels mostly built around camping...not a great idea. Meh addons, annoying audio...at least he isn't quite as craptacular as he once was, but when facecamping gets fixed he's going to need some help.
- <> Myers is just saved from this list...just. Yes, he can be a very comfortable killer to play - but his basekit is weak and horribly outdated, and aside from Vanity Mirror (which may be among my favorite addons in the game), his addons are either ungodly broken and irritating (TSP) or crap. But yeah, Spoopy Myers is a blast to play and people seem to enjoy playing against him. Until they lose.
Comments
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Any killer with no chase power. This game would be so much better if it more felt like cat and mouse with stealth elements but they decided to focus on the game on chase while also ignoring most killers and not giving them chase powers or powers to help them in chase which makes no sense.
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Nurse - She is ignoring everything.
Trickster - Weak power, bad copy of Bunny and annoying.
Trapper - I really don't know how we can make this killer viable. I can not see any way. He will be weakest killer forever i guess.
Pig - Her traps should not based by RNG and make her stealth better. I think she will be okey.
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Twins.
a great concept with an execution so poor that it drags everything down with it.
in short, there is a good reason why they have a 1.5% pick rate.
they are incredibly boring to go up against, they feel extremely punishing to play as, they heavily promote some very unhealthy playstyles and they are overall just a huge amount of wasted potential.
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Nurse - ignores walls, pallets, and windows... why?
Artist- forces you into a no win scenario at every pallet.
Twins - Can somehow camp the hook and chase somebody across the map at the same time. Also is designed to slug.
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Hag, Twins, and Trickster.
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Huh. What's wrong with Hag?
I love playing her (some terrible addons aside) and I enjoy facing her.
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Nurse - Ignores every survivor defense.
Trickster - Either he's too strong or just plain bad.
Twins - Their power is just badly designed in general.
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Any killer with no antiloop mechanics is a bad design imo
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Hag: Being able to trap hooks/basement and effectively camp from afar (especially w/ basement as you either try to crouch out and she just walks back, or you trigger the trap, so it’s a lose-lose if you don’t happen to have a flashlight). Mint Rag has no real counterplay without a flashlight that doesn’t involve intentionally setting off traps when it’s not necessarily advantageous to. She isn’t encouraged to chase much which is the most fun part of the game.
Twins: Also being able to camp from afar as well as highly incentivizing slugging. Their cooldowns are also terrible from the killer perspective, and mistakes can be very punishing. Certain perks hurt them a lot as well as victor’s inability to deal with boons.
Trickster: Literally just huntress but worse in every way, both to play and to play against. Has a weak power that can’t be buffed much without making it op.
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Nurse. I may hate Trickster and Hag more in terms of fun but I honestly wouldn’t really change them. Nurse definitely needs something though.
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Nurse, Twins and Cannibal.
Nurse because the devs designed pallets and windows to be the survivors' main defenses and yet decided extremely early on to create a killer that can almost completely ignore them. It's nonsensical and they've let it go on so long that they will never be able to bring her down to a fair level because so many people would rage.
Twins and Cannibal because they are best played by utilizing the two most unfun, anger-inducing playstyles: slugging and camping.
Special mention to Pig because she's so reliant on RNG.
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Oh and we can't forget about the original Legion design. Complete lack of foresight with that killer. The devs should have known better.
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there are a couple but the worst is nurse by far. she is the strongestr by a mile and not for good reasons but instead because she doesnt give a F.
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Huh. Maybe it's because I play her so much, but I don't really have problems. If you see or suspect a trap, crouch it, flash it or bait it. If she's patrolling hooks, she's basically just camping - which sucks, but other killers are much nastier.
Mint Rag is pretty strong, but you have to have a fair amount of foresight to use it effectively (if you see she's running it, if she vanishes 180).
You can run roughshod over her if you have a BT - get the BT guy to trigger all the traps.
The easiest counter to her though is simply healing. Set up a boon in a corner of the map, just go back there and heal. She'll lose a war of attrition.
Twins...yeah. Another killer that needs a design mulligan.
Trickster - another contender for my list for sure. A perfect storm of crap and annoying.
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Legion.
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My top 3
- Ghostface
- Ghostface
- Ghostface
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Hm. Probably Twins. Cool concept, but falls apart in execution. Or maybe Trickster, because he either insta-dominates loops his power works on, or is useless if the loop prevents him using his power. I have no clue why people are saying Nurse.
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Deathslinger. He is just worse than Huntress in every single way.
Huge terror radius.
Quick scope removed.
Cannot down on hit, must M1 after a reel.
110% move speed.
No 4v1 game, no map pressure.
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Trickster.
I love his design, I like his lore but his Power is just... bad.
It's a cheap Huntress knock-off, with the only difference being is that he throws multiple projectiles instead of one.
He's pure 1v1, no 1v4, and his 1v1 is bad. It's weak and inconsistent. If a Survivor is in a Dead-Zone, they die, but if they're, you know... smart, they're going to loop a Trickster for eternity on any loop with a high wall
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Nurse is fine. I feel lile Sadako was really poorly designed as she is just a mashup of 2 other killers
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Pig.
The bulk of her power is stuffed into a fully RNG autokill mechanism. There is no way to redeem that. It's trash for Pig if the thing comes off on first box, it's trash for survivors if it comes off on the last box. And as a result, her stealth has to be garbage to compensate for how overpowered her RBTs -can- be.
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Nurse. Design failure from the early days which is still allowed to be in the game because the Devs fear the outcry when they change her to a more appropiate Killer.
Twins is also not really well-designed. The concept is great, but the excecution is terrible, it is miserable to play against Twins. And because it is so miserable, they had to add big Cooldowns to them to not make them too unfun to go against. IMO a complete Rework would be needed (same goes for Nurse).
Legion is also badly designed, mainly because of the same reason as Nurse - a Killer who can ignore Pallets and Windows (even when not in a way Nurse does) is bad. And because of this they have always been a Killer on the weaker side and they will probably still stay weak after their Buff.
Then there are a few design flaws for other Killers:
Artist-->Being able to injure Survivors who are not swarmed at Loops is not really a good idea and it is one of the reasons why holding W is the most prominent way of facing an Artist.
Hag-->Being able to spam a lot of Traps next to a Hook forcing Survivors to either crouch (which gives the Hag time to get back) or to trigger them (which will let her teleport) is bad. And you are basically dead once you are in the Basement against a Hag.
Myers-->99ing and then downing or even killing that one Survivor who has not seen Myers the whole game is also not the pinnacle of game design.
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Twins, Legion, Pig.
People say the Onryo, but she could be fixed with tweaks. The above killers designs are fundamentally flawed, and would need total reworks to be truly fixed.
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The only one id say is legion but like you said they are getting a rework so that may not be true any longer even tho they still need work off of their ptr build
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Hag
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I find mirror myers terrible against decent survivors. Unless it is the indoor map.
I do better with normal Myers. And I do best with tp+jmm obviously.
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My heart wants to scream BUBA!
I hate his so much... But that is probably because of the players how they play him rather than the power itself. But the power itself is also boring and easy.
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Agree. Uninspiring power. They could have done something fun with their power and they gave us this...
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I have numerous ideas to rework Trapper because hes my main.
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I don't like plague. I just find it ridiculous that she makes every healing perks in the game useless, and also cute locker perks useless too.
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Legion, twins, trickster.
I can't choose a worst between them, they all have horrible design
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Sadly I think Pig has the worst designed power in the game. Its completely RNG based
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I don't think she's absolutely last, but yeah luck is often not her friend...
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Huh.
I legitimately think Plague is one of the best designed killers in the game.
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Trickster takes the cake. Followed either by Nemesis or Deathslinger.
Others can be fixed or tweaked without major concept reworks.
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I don’t consider Legion worst anymore. So,
- Freddy because he is a basic simple no interaction killer with a low skill ceiling who relies solely on Gen Slowdown stacking.
- Twins their slug playstyle would be fine, If that wasn’t what they solely needed with hard camping. Along with how neutered their power has become 5 seconds for using your power correctly.
- Trickster nothing you can do at some loops while he’s powerless at others. Full 1v1 nothing else and even then it’s inconsistent
- Others who I think could use some big changes are Myers, Pig, and Nemesis
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Trickster...yeah. I think he's going to be Pig V2, in that he's so annoying to play against that the devs don't dare give him any love.
Nemesis is one addon pass away from being solid.
Slinger...eh. Like Twins, he's both very clunky and quite powerful.
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Onryo - needs a buff.
Twins - they need some qol.
Pig - it should be "search X boxes" to get the key instead of rng.
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I think that answer was more fueled by a recent game and less by holistic game design analysis.
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Trickster is worse than Pig, because his design isn't even unique. He is the most derivative of the ranged killers.
All Ranged Killers trace back to Huntress. Clown and Plague are the most unique takes on her concept, as they came second and third.
Slinger had an Identity as Stretch Armstrong with his 18 meter long lunge, but lost it for... understandable reasons. This is why he's on this list.
Executioner plays quite similarly to Huntress in many occasions, and benefits from many of the same perks. However, due to his shorter range and ability to ignore walls, it does allow him to carve out his own meager identity.
Twins does have an interesting idea. It was just... executed poorly. Understandable, but it either swings as an annoying hanger-on to the gremlin who downs the entire team because he respawns every 6 seconds. He's effectively a respawning Hex Totem.
Trickster has nothing. He's always been a sham. There is no outplay, only delay. Will continue at length if necessary.
Nemesis is Executioner, but he can break pallets instead of loops. He is a 115% who you can viably get away with only using his m2. Name me another 115% who can be so power dependent instead of power adjacent. Balance wise, yes he is one add-on pass from balanced. His design is shoddy, and is patchwork of Demogorgon and Executioner, and the new mechanic he brings is non-functioning. At least Onryo's televisions don't get stuck on trees. And can actually be interacted with and influenced by both sides.
Artist needs some tweaks, needs some lethality pulled from small loops to her sniping ability, and she's fine. The idea of being able to harass at a distance, but less effective at close range makes her akin to an inverse Executioner. Aka, her own niche.
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I'd say Nurse mechanically. Even though I 4k with her often, her camera/controlling, upsides/downsides all feel like garbage standing back and looking at it from an unbiased and objective viewpoint. She is a beautiful mistake in the form of a character.
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Twins
Their power sounds so good on paper, and it could have been if given enough thought, but that wasn't the case and look what they become, a cooldown heavy slug fest.
Just a few funnies that happened to me a few hours ago when suffering as Twins
Lemme just go down the stairs after pouncing, OOOPS too bad, there was a tiny little elevation somewhere that nobody would have guessed was there and you just die, good luck winning now 4head.
Also good luck getting bloodpoints as your game crashes when you switch from Victor to Charlotte right as the last Survivor dies on hook.
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Pig, Trickster or DS.
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I want Amanda's letter basekit ;)
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I think Nemesis would probably be up there mostly because of his zombies. I don't think any killer should immediately win chases solely because rng. The only saving grace is the zombies suck balls in most cases. So it's not a normally huge problem, but when it is the fault is extremely prominent. The lingering hitbox is a bit annoying at times. Most Nemesis players just do the pallet 50/50 or zone you out of windows. Very disappointed with his power in general. It could've been a lot more interesting.
I'd say Hag as well. Unless you have a teammate disarming traps (which will almost never happen in solo que) you're just going to die. Her ability to teleport to traps a whole second and a half after they trigger means she can wait just long enough to wait for you to panic. Example: You pre-throw a pallet, trigger a trap, and now you have to choose to either vault back or wait. You wait too long and she teleports and hits you. If you vault she just smacks you. Killer powers that put you in a 50/50 are just frustrating. It's the same flaw that was prominent with Spirit. This is also not mentioning she can camp from across the map. On smaller maps she will catch up to you either way. You either crouch walk and give her time to get close, or you trigger it and take the hit and possibly trade.
Artist is another zoning killer. You can't really do much else with her kit besides get some cross map information. Zoning killers are super dull and basically guarantee a down if you can't reach another tile or are already injured. The game turns into just trying to get gens done before the first kill, because after that she's most likely going to win. She's efficient and strong, but at the expense of any interesting gameplay.
Trickster is a dumpster fire. An underwhelming power that simultaneously guarantees downs in a way that's comparable to grinding your head on a wall until it breaks. Low wall loops are death and vaults are getting you pelted by at least 2 knives. It's basically impossible to dodge as many knives that he has in one chase. His 1v1 is just a delayed death while his 1v4 is non-existent. The only real way to escape Trickster is to survive until he gives up (rare among most killer players) or hope the guy playing sucks and runs out of knives.
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Nurse, by a mile.
Then twins, promotes slugathon and tiring matches.
And pig with the most embarassing gameplay design, but I understand it fits the lore of the character.
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I see a lot of people dissing the DeShays. A lot of the complaints can actually be mitigated by somewhat minor changes.
Victor Slugging too much? Make it so Victor can only spend so much time decoupled. Increase the time it takes to get Victor back if crushed.
In exchange, you can switch while in hit cooldown and can recall Victor at any point.
Victor does nothing to Healthy Survivors? Make it so he's a timer, and upon reaching the end, it downs the Survivor he's coupled to. You either risk letting him run rampant, or you kidnap him at risk of going down.
Also, do people forget that the biggest counter to Victor is doubling up? Ironically, playing like conjoined twins completely dunks on the conjoined twins.
Some killers gain pressure by map presence. Teleports, movement speed, and the such. Others gain pressure by guaranteeing first hits. Some gain it through area lockdown. Some gain it from burst damage. And for some, slugging is their pressure.
As far as I'm concerned, Slugging will always be preferable to Tunneling or Camping. Apples to oranges.
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Trickster. While onryo is very weak, she can (probably) be fixed with some buffs. Trickster is just horrible. The knife barrage will down you very quickly on open maps with little to no counter play (depends on the map). Also, he has the worst chase theme in the game (I even prefer ptb ghostface) and a silly aesthetic design.
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Twins isnt poor, just gotta play smart with her
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Blight- Because there is no reward getting away from him if he can just bump into something and go zoom
Huntress- Broken hitboxes and just boring in general
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