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4 stack SWF on comms, the reason why is it so broken beyond belief
I was oblivious for long time, but got friends who are playing dbd like a job, and invited me into their stack(and I am not even that good of survivor) . The level of information I got was insane, like knowing where the killer almost all the time, so the 3 can do gens without problems while the other is chased, and when the killer leaves you get the information where he is heading, and can prepare in advance, etc frankly, SWF on comms = every information perk equipped on survivors.
The only time we lost against a god nurse, and blight with strongest addons (but even then in blight case, 2 survivors made out) , in others case 3-4 survivors escaping was the standard, again and again most of killers cant do anything, the game so against killers its just insane. Mad respect for killer mains for putting up with this.
You almost feel an unbeatable god in 4 SWF. About 50% of the killer just gave up and went afk or DC-ed, its really funny, as survivor you are the killer, and cant help but want to bully the "killer" when in 4 SWF.
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Yeah comms are the most OP thing by far. Luckily not everyone utilises them efficiently, but when they do, it pretty much breaks the game for all but the top 1% of killers, and even they’ll struggle occasionally.
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The only reason SWF is overpowered is 3rd party communication software, i.e., something that BHVR can't do a damned thing about and something that we as a community simply have to accept
SWF without comms is just solo queue but with reliable teammates, SWF with comms is a balancing nightmare due to the fact that it was never intended in the first place
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Maybe have swf play against kwf
4 survivors on comms v 2 killers on comms 😏
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There are problems that BHVR can handle
And problems that they don't see as problems
Comms for Survivors is an issue but there are bigger issues (not saying that Comms aren't that big of a deal but it's something that they can't control)
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With this logic coms would been an issue in any koop-game. Like, go play some BR games you can play vs random groups or vs teams on comms. But no other game ever made an issue out of coms, but dbd players are crying like hell. Its obviously an issue on player mentality here.
And @DragonMasterDarren how about not telling lies about swf being unintended in first place. It was always an intended feature. This was already told thousand of times by BHVR.
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As they say,... Basement Bubbas are not born,... they are created.
I don't even play Legion much anymore, SAW IS FAMILY.
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Its clear that 4 SWF is the intended way to play DbD at least for me worked lot better than killer or solo survivor
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You're attributing correlation to causation a bit. You said you have 3 friends who play DbD like a job, which I'm assuming means they're already pretty optimal. It's not the comms themselves that are causing this huge escape rate. Do an experiment. Play without comms and see what happens. I bet your escape rate doesn't move all that much.
What you're running into are killers below your skill level. Play against a comp level killer in a KYF setting. It might change your mind a bit.
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It is a bit misleading to say "never intended" as the devs have said multiple times both KYF and SWF were supposed to be out with the game's launch, however only KYF was ready at the time.
Shortly after release (and lots of lobby dodging to queue with their mates) SWF was added. There is no doubt imo they underestimated big time the scope and easy availability of comms on gameplay.
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SWF and KYF was intended
SWF with the ability to communicate with each other across the map at all times wasn't
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Thats your opinion, and you can be as wrong about it as you like.
Of course SWF workes a lot better, because over time, the killer power level went to a place where it was higher than most solo queues (in order to keep up with swf) but lower than those swf (in order to not completly destroy solos). Its the mix of both playstyles that causes a lot of the games balancing issues. You could easily balance it around solo survivors, or swf, but balancing around both at the same time is next to impossivle, without changing the games core (which they are doing slowly for some time now).
To me, it is clear that the game was meant to be played with a certain lack of information, and that is not bypassed by swf, but by communications, which an swf can freely use, but you notice it is not part of the game itself.
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Swf isnt the problem in itself.
Its only natural people cooperate better/more if they know each other. And comms are just a great tool to relay info to others.
Missing those two things is what makes "solo" so bad, compared to swf/comms.
Comms are a force multiplier tho, the better the surv, the better it works.
The devs should maybe add some sort of message system/wheel , IdV has it and "focus ciphers/gens" is by far the one message needed to emulate comms' big advantage of "telling others to tush those damn gens because the killer is occupied"
Off topic but the game does a bad job of acknowlediging swf into the trial, the same score events as solo etc. Just an extra lobby.
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Yes, but even in 2016 they imo should have taken comms into balance consideration, but did not.
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The Devs knew that it will happen that people jump on Discord (or Teamspeak at this time) and play together with communication.
Nobody creates a Multiplayergame and does not know that people will communicate via 3rd party software.
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You’re missing the point. Other games build in comms and balance around it. BHVR made the mind-boggling decision of not including comms in the base game. It is a design problem that is pretty unique to dbd
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Map offerings should be removed because of swf just had game against 4 man squad that sent me to macmillan got 4k with bubba sweating whole game they were not that good but still it was hard maps should be random all the time.
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Nah, most games never balanced around coms.
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I have said before. Swf on comms is an advantage no matter how you look at it. You may be causal friends or a swat squad. It's still an advantage.
My problem is the killer is givin nothing to compensate for the level of communication the survivors have. Sure not all may be on comms, but we have to assume they are and balance as if they are.
Again the killer needs some form of compensation to make up for it. What that is I have no idea, but something needs to be done.
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I agree, they absolutely should have
But, at the end of the day, we do have to acknowledge that they didn't, as boneheaded and ignorant as it was
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Oh come on dude, I know everyone on the forums wants to paint the developers as bad people, but they absolutely knew people would play with their friends in voice comms, survivors (before SWF was added) were already in calls to queue up at the same time and be in the same match together, they weren't suddenly going to stop being in calls together because SWF was added.
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i never said they weren’t going to stop being in calls, if anything I’m saying that the devs continuing to ignore the fact that Discord exists is the biggest balancing issue in the game atm
i just think that we have to accept the fact that the devs probably wouldn’t do anything about it
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Go back to my original comment, and read what it says
assuming you can do that, you’ll know that I said SWF with Voice Comms was unintended, not SWF in general
if you’re going to call me a liar at least read what I said before doing so
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This.
Coms or SWF do not magically make you good.
You have to actually be good in the first place.
Most of the valuable information when playing a match is discernable without being on voice.
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Do you play online games? Most have the option available, including another asym game, Friday the 13th.
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Map design is an issue. However, on any given map, there’s a significant contrast in power between solo queue survivors and a SWF of equal skill using comms.
The majority of multiplayer games are designed and balanced around comms - DBD is not, and is in fact designed and balanced around a scarcity of information, hence why you must spend perk slots in exchange for limited information, or utilise third party software to communicate with your team, as the game doesn’t even have voice chat as a feature.
While this is true, it does’t mean the game is designed/balanced around comms. If it were, they would be a feature, and BHVR wouldn’t be looking at ways to bridge the gap between them and solo queue.
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Must be 4 stack SWF on comms. There's no other way.
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Can you then explain the difference in performance between swf and solo players, even if all solo players actually play the game? Because Solo also doesnt change the time needed to get a down.
The difference is in the communication, because that allows swf way higher efficiency.
You can ignore the killer heartbeat if you know he is still in a chase and stay on your gen.
You can go to your slugged teammate even if you are struck by blindness or he by knockout.
You can know if the killer comes to your gen even if he starts his way to you on the other side of the map, giving you lots of time to prepare or react.
You can coordinate a resecue with several players even if the killer camps. Or, you can just genrush, because you know the killer camps.
If he doesnt camp, only one teammate needs to go to the hook, not several and the fastest wins.
Thats all based on communications, that solo queue dont have. It needed to be balanced around the lack of information for solos, but that boostes swf even more.
None of this things has anything to do with the balance of the map you are playing on.
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No, they dont make you magical good, but they allow you to make better decissions than you would without them.
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HOW could be SWF with coms be unintended as coms existed since 15 years before DbD was even released? Stop with those blatant lies.
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The devs said that they didn't intend SWF to have voice comms, as outright stupid as it sounds, that's what they said
If you want to call anyone a blatant liar, tell it to them, not me
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Then you can surely quote that exact statement, right?
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I'm not going to look through 6 years worth of footage and messages to find one statement, especially seeing as the fact that they didn't intend for voice comms is obvious just by looking at how the game is played as intended and how voice comms break it
If that's not enough for you, then sorry, but that's where i stand on this
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So its just an urban legend like "ruin got nerfed due to overuse". Its ridiculous how poeple try to defend false statements.
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And it remains ridiculous that you can't wrap your head around the fact that most of all other team games out their have voice comms and/or ping system integrated from the beginning and more importantly aren't asymmetrical were only one side can gain an advantage from them. That's what's different between most other games and DBD and the reason why it is still such a heated topic after 6 years.
And please don't come me with other asymmetrical games, since they either had voice also integrated like last year and even Friday 13th or most of them are already dead, from hearsay partially because the group was, after a certain time, always able to overpower the killer with enough coordination bordering to bullying.
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One would assume,, that IF the devs intended for voice comms they would have implimented them into the game. They added SWF in 2016, so it's safe to say they never intended for it in the game.
Howewver, BHVR reps most certainly has said they do not intend to add it,... "because it breaks the immersion of the game"
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Yeah it would break immersion, cause most players would be trolling via voicecomms. And i am really glad voicechat doesnt exist in dbd. Its already mostly annoying in other games. Also most people wouldnt use it due to language barriers. But they never sad that players using voicecomms wasnt intended.
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Move the goal post even further,….
you said no one could post the quote of them saying they have no intention of ever adding voice chat. Not only have they stated that, it was tested.
I posted proof devs have no plans to add it. and your response is still “they never said it”
cant debate facts with people like you. You have already been proven wrong this convo no longer serves a purpose
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SWF with comms gives an advantage but i play as a 3 man or 4 man with varying hours/skill and map RNG and skill plays a MUCH bigger impact than just being a swf.
When we have 1 or 2 players with only 300-500 hours with the other 2 at about 3k each we die much more than we escape.
SWF tends to be very altruistic, you just have to be play to their weakness of often going for fast saves, flashlight saves and pallets etc. by baiting them.
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It makes a team stronger but this game is so old you are dealing with veterans either way. Experienced players already know the game so well that even solos can seem coordinated. Consider it hard mode and do your best.
(They tell each other lies too. I cannot tell you how many times I watched a match from the survivor side and they made wrong calls to each other.)
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Yep the plentiful resources and 2nd chances for survivors combined with constant communication makes for an extremely easy game for SWFs.
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Most coop games and team based games are balanced around teamwork.
The majority of these games have comms built in to them to facilitate teamwork.
DbD is balanced around teamwork without comms.
That's why there's so many perks in the game that give survivors info as if they're on comms.
So the problem is that the game isn't balanced around comms. And no, most games are balanced around comms. That's part of teamwork. That's why they have built in comms into their games.
Your take on this is just overwhelming ignorant and irrational.
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It's true. It's the easiest way to play this game by far
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Ingame coms arent a sign that a game is balanced around coms. Its just a free-to-use feature, but there isnt anything specficially designed for balance of coms.
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