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Dead Hard still not being changed is completely baffling.
Otz recently posted a video where 70-80% of all survivors he went against for a few day span ran dead hard. How are the devs, notoriously focused solely on data, able to justify not ######### nerfing this perk? Are they going to let the player count reach zero? That's what it's looking like.
Remember when they said new killers would get touched up during the next mid chapter patch? What happened to that? What happened to the key/mori change? What happened to the bloodpoint change?
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Roughly speaking, you can take half a year for changes to be implemented from when they’re teased. With that in mind, there was the dev stream where they mentioned they’re looking at the distance part. It’s not coming in this mid-chapter, and most likely won’t be coming with the anniversary release, so then the first realistic option is the mid-chapter following that.
That’s my guess, anyway.
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Why the distance part and not the I-frame part. Every killer in the world thinks the Iframes are the bullshit part. I also don't expect the change that soon. They announced a bloodpoint change a year+ ago.
BHVR is stagnant.
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It''s ok, BHVR is working on it! It should be ready by the next Ice Age, so stay tuned.
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Dead Hard is a fine perk. Its not broken or OP. Killers are just complaining about everything cause they dont want to need any skill for a 4k.
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I actually can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
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Half a year for "this" dev team..sure. Need more efficiency then don't they? Or perhaps their priorities are all screwed up. Game health really hasn't come up in patches as much as it needs to. Most would agree with that statement I'd say.
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Wrong.
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Yeah let’s focus on DH while we have bots running around that could potentially kill the game. DH should not be their number 1 priority now
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Ah yes, it’s definitely run by approximately 80% of all survivors, if not more, because it’s mediocre.
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There will always be META perks.
If DH is nerfed, another perk will replace it as META and 80% of the players will use it.
It is normal taht META perks are used a lot, nothing bad about it.
Honestly, i don't think that DH is better than Lithe for exemple... Lithe is underrated and the killer losses way more time against it.
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Yes, another perk will replace it. That perk will invariably be less frustrating than dead hard. No other survivor perk warps the entire way I play around it like dead hard does.
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two different teams deal with both of those issues.
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No you didn't, but again, if 80% of ALL survivors run it, then there's a reason for that. And that reason has to be that it's a good perk. Beyond good, otherwise we'd see other 'good' perks just as much.
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Considering in the past few days more than half my games were against nurses and blights running full meta builds, dead hard can be even buffed for all I care.
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Confirmed you dont play on high ranks.If they dead hard to avoid damage you may catch him but if they use it for distance there is no counterplay.
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Because something is used doesn't mean it needs a change or nerfed. It needs to be looked at why it is used and perhaps make perks similar to it. The player has control over the perk, and it is fun to use. It is nowhere as powerful as Overcome or Sprint Burst but those perks simply are automatic and not as enticing to use. But killers, like yourself, blows the usage and power of DH completely out of proportion.
It reminds me why Demogorgon loves to use Save the Best for Last. He has control over the perk giving him a very powerful edge. Why are you not wanting that perk nerfed?
By your admission, because it is used a lot, slow down perks need a very heavy and large nerf hammer because they are "spammed" in every game.
They are literally buffing two killers in the next patch. Survivors are getting no buffs of any kind which is baffling. So many perks that could be buffed but all the focus is on killers.
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Arguing something needs to be changed because it is used a lot isn't a good argument for anything, but there's plenty of reasons for why Dead Hard should be nerfed with actual reasoning. But, some people seem to prefer to ignore those reasons and, equally, focus on the one thing that makes no sense, which is "because it's used a lot" Two equally dumb arguments. And no one complained about Demo using STBFL because, all things considered, it still didn't make him that strong. After they made changes to him, people actually stopped running the perk on him - so they went after the killers power itself rather than the perk. You certainly don't see many Demo's these days.
And I guess you missed the patches before this one that did focus on survivors and their perks. I guess the real baffling part is thinking if one side gets buffs or nerfs, the other side has to or they just hate x and y is OP
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The devs aren't actually focused solely on data, for starters.
As for why it's not been changed yet, the answer is almost certainly an underwhelming and unsatisfying "because they hadn't gotten around to it yet". There's always something that needs fixing, and this game has had plenty of things far more obnoxious than current Dead Hard, so sometimes things just slip through the cracks.
The good news is that it's been acknowledged, and that the devs even have the right mindset - that it shouldn't have both distance and i-frames - so we can expect that it'll be folded in to their current workload and it'll be fixed a few patches down the line. How many patches depends on how difficult it ends up being to fix.
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Except that the devs themselves have said numerous times that they nerf things that are “overused” (ruin, nemesis addons). Conveniently , this usually just applies to killer things that are overused.
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Pressing a button takes skill on the survivor side?
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There is no other reasons to nerf DH other than it is used a lot. The argument that it gives free distance to a pallet doesn't hold much water when you look at Sprint Burst or Overcome, both of which give much greater distances.
Killers don't like the perk because they want easy games, where the survivor has no defenses or utility in chase.
However, there are plenty of reasons for nerfing killer perks (such as Solo Queue being proven unable to overcome).
If you are speaking of the previous patch, they buffed Boil Over and nerfed it back to uselessness.
They buffed Dead Man's Switch so it is unfun and broken, it is ignored.
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@Sluzzy Complain about dead man's switch perk that promotes going for hooks but when they nerf it please don't cry about killer tunneling and camping.
Boil over was changed because it was ridiculously abusable on some maps. Devs needed to nerf it.
Deadhard is outdated cheap perk that needs a nerf and it seems like majority of the community agrees on that.
And like you said its also absurdly overused.
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BBQ and NOED came from the same era as DH. That makes those cheap and outdated, and quite overused.
You mean the killer community?
Go ahead and nerf DH, you are going to have fun chasing Overcome and Sprint Burst users. Mark my post right here with a big star, they'll be a flood of "Nerf Sprint Burst threads"
Killers are never happy.
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@Sluzzy Yea noed is outdated and overpowered and it should be nerfed into the abbys right beside deadhard :)
If you think that BBQ is op then well what can i do.
I don't even remember when i played against any other exhaustion other than dh so yea i wanna see them in my games more.
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What did you expect?
They are working on it and maybe the exhaustion time gets increased by 0.25 secs sometime in the distant future.
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A. It is the only exhaustion perk of its kind so it’s obviously going to be used more.
B. The perk itself has nothing/zero to do with player count. Not even sure how we are now equating/comparing the two. Some of us like going against DH players, because for every one of them a SB player exists.
C. Stop using a streamer’s opinion as your main source for why something should change. DH has become more noticeably strong with the introduction of long range killers (PH, Nemesis, Pinhead) and while I can stand behind a change, what I cannot do is stand by this notion that it is somehow too strong because everyone I mean “everyone” runs it. It’s the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
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Devs no way to change it.
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Just because a perk is used a lot doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
80% of killers I go against use ruin, should ruin be nerfed? No.
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I don't think the majority of people want dead hard to be nerfed, just the majority of whiners on the forums, which is a loud minority.
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Actually there is some decent objective evidence that Dead Hard is overpowered
- It’s by far the most popular exhaustion perk and also maybe the most popular survivor perk overall. Popularity alone doesn’t prove its overpowered but it is strongly correlated with effectiveness (great perks tend to be the most popular ones)
- Game data samples that players have posted show a very high correlation between escape rates and using Dead Hard, more than any other survivor perk I’ve seen data for. There was a 400+ game sample posted a couple of months ago for instance that included how many survivors used various perks in every match. When you pivot out escapes by the number of survivors using Dead Hard per match there was something like a +5-10% escape rate for the group per survivor using the perk (ie. the killer has about a 70% kill rate against groups with no Dead Hard at all and for each person that had it the average dropped 5-10% to close to 45-50% or so for a full group of DH players). None of other survivor perks that were tracked had anything close to that correlation. Of course correlation isn’t causation, it could be strong players like Dead Hard, but note that the other meta perks that were tracked such as Borrowed Time that strong players also like didn’t improve escape rates to that degree.
- Lastly note that the devs have explicitly said they aren’t happy with Dead Hard’s stats since hit validation went into place. Apparently ever since hit validation the usage of Dead Hard dramatically increased because on top of already being a strong perk it now could additionally reliably evade attacks based in killer animation. That made an already popular, great perk even better. And supposedly they noticed similar correlations to what I mentioned above where players who use Dead Hard are significantly boosting the survivor groups’ escape rates much more than other perks. That’s why they’ve called it out as something they are very likely going to be adjusting, they just haven’t said precisely what the change would be.
So unlike some of the other more unfounded balance complaints that frequently pop up by killers and survivors this one seems to have substance.
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it already got nerfed for this exact reason. you can't deny that devs nerf perks and addons for being too common. that's why they used that argument because it came from the devs themselves when nerfing a lot of things ruin being the most noticeable one. but this isn't the reason the perk should be nerfed dh is literally the most stupidly designed perk in the game and it had stayed so for far too long it's really the time for this perk to be looked at.
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Pretty sure ruin got nerfed cause it was bad for new survivors to go against.
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I agree
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We love DH daily reminder. 😒
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No, Ruin got nerfed because new players couldnt hit skill checks.
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Dead Hard is overpowered because of how fast the gens fly and how safe the maps are (pallet density/size). If gens took longer or the maps had less resources, it wouldn't be so bad. One Dead Hard extending a chase by 30 seconds can win the entire game. Now stack that perk on all 4 survivors like is super common in all the lobbies that I face
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They're not
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yeah, totally agree. I've never heard anyone complain about DH before lol. It's a really good perk, so it's used alot... doesn't mean it should be nerfed. You might as well nerf BT then too. I don't run DH typically as I find more value in SB, but when i'm killer I just expect the survivor to be running it by default and play accordingly. it's like a freebie when I'm trying to figure out the survivor's loadout.
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Its not because its used a lot. (I'm an advocate for nerfing/reworking exhaustion as a whole) It's because you get a perk that makes any m1 based killer suffer as when its used for distance it easily buys at least 30 seconds if you're a decent survivor. And people wonder why they keep seeing blights and nurses when its one of the easiest to use exhaustion perks.
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It's used a lot because you don't have the requirement for sprint burst of 99'ing it meaning if you want to use it mid chase you would have to leave a gen or the killer would have to have massive pressure. Without that requirement and distance on command when injured..... yeah you easily get scenario where 4 survivors running it easily add 2 minutes at least for their team to work on gens.
Overall not a very well designed perk in terms of power. Oh yeah don't forget that DH for distance its literally uncounterable vs most killers.
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We do see other perks used as much though. You can't use popularity as a means to pick what's nerfed. DH's not busted, it's got alot of limitations, and it's popularity means you should expect it so run killer perks to hit exhaustion. If you used popularity to nerf, you'd have to include: sprint burst, borrowed time, and bbq and chili to that list. I think your pool of perks is off too.. I believe you're thinking 'why are people using DH instead of every other perk in the game', but almost everyone builds with one exhaustion perk, so you should be comparing just the exhaustion perks. When you look at it that way, you'll see that the two most adaptable, and useful, are SB and DH... both of which are the most popular. I'd argue that it's not that DH (or SB for that matter) are too powerful, but that the other exhaustion perks are too weak/limiting to be useful for all maps. You can use an exhaustion perk like Lithe, but what if the map is 'The Game'? Than it's practically useless... best to find a perk that works for all maps, like DH.
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No, the distance part is what the problem is.
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There is no competition out there to get them motivated. Without somebody to push them to innovate and balance, they stick with their same stale release pattern. At the same time, the devs are out of touch. Just look at all the Q&As. So while the playerbase tells you there is an issue, they will see something else. Numbers and stats and such. Combine the two, and you have a case of misery.
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ruin got changed for good ,old ruin was way stronger.
DH hasnt been touch in years mate. ( try counting the amount of times that this perks get used just like a distance drop a pallet or distance reach a windows or survivors makes a mistake encounter the killer face to face and they just E to avoid the hit and go for safety every single time)
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Do you want to elaborate and make an actual argument for your case? Or are you one of those people who just kinda says whatever comes to your brain without bothering to think about it?
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How?
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you could say the same for nurse's addons.
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You are aware that DBD is 4 survivors vs 1 killer, right?
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IDK, we're gonna disagree on this for sure, but that's ok. I just don't find DH to be that big of an issue when I'm playin killer. Most of the time it buys the surv a few extra seconds, if they don't just DH into a rock, or it gives them a false sense of confidence. if I did find it to be a big issue for my playstyle then I'd just run something like fearmonger so the surv's are always exhausted. There's other strats of course, different builds or just faking out the DH first so you're not slowed by the hit animation, but fearmonger seems the simplest without sacking too many perk slots.
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