Why is there even a complaint about NOED?
Comments
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Again - cleansing worthless Dull Totems is a really bad way to prevent the activation of NOED. OhTofu once made a good example: If there is a Survivor Perk which grants 10% Movement Speed after all Gens are done, but it can be countered (even before Endgame) by opening each Locker in the Basement two times, it would be a Perk which is just as stupid as NOED. Unreasonable Counter for a strong effect which requires 0 effort.
And, the problem is as well that NOED does activate regardless how the Killer did. So you cannot even compare it to Survivor Second Chance-Perks, since a bad Survivor with Dead Hard is not really a challenge. Dead Hard only becomes strong in the hands of good Survivors, the bad Survivors are those who use DH without Pallets or Windows nearby. NOED gives the Killer 1 Kill (most of the time).
And, last but not least, comparing the amount of second chance Perks does not make sense at all. I mean, Survivors have way less Perks which speed up Gen Speed compared to those who slow it down on the Killers side, this does not mean that Survivors should have more Perks to speed up Gen Speeds.
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Bro how do people not understand this by now. And he is arguing semantics about solo in a team based game.
I bet youre the type to leave your teammates on the hook saying "sorry nothing i could of done"
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So unbreakable, DS, Deliverance and BT are all useless on ''bad'' survivors? They take Skill to use?
I'm sorry but I'm not a low MMR killer. Survivors know how to use Dead Hard. Even a bad survivor can get huge value by pressing E. Dead Hard takes no skill at all. But even if it was useless on bad survivors that wouldn't matter since I don't play against ''bad'' survivors. But I already play way less killer then I used to play. Keep on going with the killer (perks) nerfs and enjoy the 15 minute queue! :D
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Or much more likely is either he or you got backfilled into the match because one of you had been waiting a long time and it has nothing to do with NOED.
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No Perk in DBD really takes skill to use. DBD is an easy game overall.
And again, why do you compoare the amount of second chance Perks of the two sides in this game? Survivor and Killer gameplay is entirely different, so why the comparison?
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Yeah they're slow, but they've explicitly said they're working on Dead Hard because they're unhappy with its stats. Do you really think they've looked at Dead Hard's stats and not at NOED? I guarantee they've examined NOED and just haven't found an issue while they did find a problem with Dead Hard.
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Say it with me 'NoED does not give "free kills". Just because Survivors whine, does not mean they change objective reality to conform to their delusions'.
Does NoED insta-kill Survivors? No.
Does it put them on hooks? No.
Does it prevent or bypass hook phases? No.
So where does 'free kills' come from? Other than whiny Survivors inventing fake flaws to demand the perk be changed due to their delusions, I mean.
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Because killers only have 1 real second chance perk. Survivors also have perks to increase gen speed. They can bring prove thyself to speed up gens massively, bring a toolbox, BNP's are still really really strong. Even resilience speeds up gens. Also, Dead hard can be used the entire game while NOED can only be used after all gens are done. And again, it can even be prevented from activating.
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Doing bones is an amazing counter to a perk that does all those things. If your team can not do gens and bones because "time" Then the killer was going to win anyways because he didnt have 4 perks to begin with.
In other words. To be very very clear. People who complain about noed is infact bad at the game. And their team is crap as well. Hello twitter.
Sure you can say "ohh but i was camped and i got hit by noed and died" well, tough tatas. It happens in maybe 1 out of 3 games?
You can run perks you can bring a map. But no. Still not enough.
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Again, it does not make sense to compare the amount of second chance Perks at all. The roles play differently. Survivors have far less Perks which can affect Gen Speed, but that does not mean that they should have more Perks.
It can be fine if Killers have second-chance Perks - IF they are well-designed. NOED is not well-designed, not even a little bit. Only a small amount of players would complain about NOED if it would be a Perk which rewards good Killer players and not the Perk which grants you a Kill for sucking all game.
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Players complain about NOED, because he robs them from feeling satisfied. Most players take no issue with losing, but how one loses is important. A good example of this was spirit. Spirit was objectively weaker then Nurse post nerf and yet players felt more frustrated playing against a spirt then a Nurse. This was due to her lack of counterplay and survivors inability to have real input in a chase.
NOED is similar as it feels like players are not losing to a skilful outplay or screw up on their part, but simply because the killer equipped the perk and got a down. There was nothing to learn, nothing to improve upon. This is despite of hte fact that NOED is a fairly weak perk.
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Get gud
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You first
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See, you have to change your mindset. The Killer did not 'suck' to have 5 gens pop. This is BS.
Think of this: Survivors say Killers 'sweat' if they kill with 5 gens to go. Survivors say Killers 'suck' if all 5 gens pop. Both are excuses as to why the Killer should not get kills at that time.
So, according to Survivors; Killers have to wait until 1 gen pops (and it's very frequently 2-3 at the first pop) but stop using perks that help after 5 gens pop?
Let me ask a better question; Why. The hell. Are Survivors deciding if they OPPONENT deserves kills, or dictating WHEN their opponent gets kills? What makes Survivors think they can chose when their opponent wins, or how?
Stop thinking 'NoED rewards sucking' because that's wrong. Literally just factually incorrect. 5 gens is just step 5 out of 6 for leaving. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's not a cut-off point for Killer skill.
It's not 'basically winning' or losing.
Killers have not 'basically failed' if 5 gens pop.
There is nothing special or holy about the 5th gen popping. Nothing that makes it a cut-off point for skill or kills.
Try to get those notions out of your head, because all they are are fake flaws and incorrect excuses to blame NoED for Survivors too lazy to do bones. Sorry, but that is the truth.
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Just a question - are you one of those guys who say that BT or DS should be disabled once 5 Gens are done?
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I have never even had that notion enter my head, never mind say it. In fact; I have never seen anyone say it before.
No sarcasm, no joking; I have never heard that notion until you asked it right now.
But thinking on it; If a survivor keeps his DS until the end game or once gates are open; they deserve that escape. The perk did something incredibly niche, or the Killer misplayed, or the Survivor avoided being tunneled. All 3 are valid reasons to have DS work in the end game.
For BT? Eh? 🤷♂️ If the game plays out so BT gets use in the end game; then the Killer did not play right to prevent it form happening, or the Survivors out-played him. It might feel a bit frustrating, sure, but perks are there to impact the game. And that means the whole game; from the first second to the last second before Survivors step out the game/the last Survivor is killed.
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It does reward bad play, dead hard does as well, totally agree there.
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Ok.
Because this "idea" came up multiple times on the Forum already. And it is funny, because people defend NOED the same way "The game is not over when 5 Gens are done", but then sometimes the same people want to disable BT or DS in Endgame, because the Killer can only camp and tunnel at this point.
However, my opinion will most likely not change. I dont think that the game is over when 5 Gens are done, however, NOED is badly designed because the Killer will get it regardless of their own performance. They can get 0 Hooks or 8 Hooks, they get a value out of NOED. No Way Out is a well-designed Endgame Perk, it gives value based on how good the Killer did during the game. A bad Killer will most likely not get the maximum value out of No Way Out. But they get the same value out of NOED like a good Killer.
Let alone a camping Killer - it is impossible to do 5 Gens AND cleanse 5 Totems while one person is camped on the Hook. It is probably not even possible to do 5 Gens if they get camped early on.
IMO NOED should be changed into a Perk which gains Tokens based on how many Hooks the Killer got during the game. And then gives a Buff based on the number of Tokens. Plus, remove the Hex-Status so that it keeps being active during the Endgame.
This would be a far better solution. A Killer who did well will get a huge benefit from it during Endgame. A Killer who did poorly will not get that much of a benefit and a Camper almost nothing (because they only have one Hook).
But I doubt that NOED will ever be changed to something like this.
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If I deem a specific killers power too weak to really create enough pressure on gens I will use end game.
They had their fun now it's time for mine.
Losing gen after gen even with regression perks when I'm downing/hooking as fast as could be possible isn't fun.
SWF tears are yum yum lol
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I...actually like that change. Token-based and not a hex.
There is just one problem; The threat of NoED is what makes Survivors get off gens & do bones. Without it, gens will get that much faster, since Survivors now can't stop it, and the only other Hex perk worth cleansing is Ruin, which is obvious when it's in play.
No NoED & no Ruin? Pound those gens ASAP and leave. Giving Killers even less time to get people, in a meta where they usually only have 6-7 minutes as it is.
The bottom line is, with gen speeds as they are; SOMETHING has to be an omnipresent, unknown threat to make Survivors stop gens for 30 seconds & move around.
That is why I'm against NoED changes. It's not, specifically, it's power that I like. It's that it's power forces Survivors off of gens, or punishes them when they don't. If that makes sense? It's the effect that it causes by existing that is a band-aid fix to gen speeds.
Remove that fix, and gens will drop to 4-5 minutes before Survivors are dancing out the gates.
And, if a Killer is so 'bad' that they need NoED (as Survivors claim is the case); he can't defend bones & camp. He can't defend all bones. He won't be able to defend NoED when it procs while camping (unless he gets insanely luck & hooks a Survivor next to that totem).
Survivors can be in 4 places at once. Do 4 different things. A Killer cannot.
(Which is, incidentally, the reason why CoH is OP, IMO. It's not the heal speed; it's how Survivors can Boon & do generators. Heal & do gens. Reboon & do gens. Whereas a Killer can't Snuff & chase. He can't Boon hunt & patrol gens. But that's a discussion for another thread.)
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Noed isn't badly designed. It needs to be a big unknown risk in order to force survivors into making the choice of doing totems or rushing gens. If it was changed, survivors would have even less incentive to do totems, and please don't say that doing totems is a waste of time, boons have proven that competent survivors have plenty of time to spend off of gens in order to bless totems, multiple times during a match.
And no, the killer doesn't get Noed to proc irregardless of their performance. Survivors can cleanse the totems, preventing it from procc'ing. If the killer was so bad that it is obvious they have NoEd, then the survivors should have had no problem with looping the killer and buying their teammates enough time to cleanse totem. Even if it does proc, survivors have yet another chance to remove it from the game by cleansing the lit totem that can be easily found just by listening for the crackling sound, as long as they didn't make the mistake of fully opening the doors.
The only time NoEd is a problem is when its a Bubba and maybe a Basement Trapper but that isn't really a problem with NoEd, it's a problem with poor design on the killers part.
Decent Killers already earn Noed since they kept up the pressure with only 3 perks for 3/4 of the match. Survivors have no excuse when faced with a bad killer.
The only reason why people clamor for changes to Noed is because they want an easier game while denying the same for their opponent.
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I mean, BHVR is hoping to change MMR for survivors to make it more team-based, so they probably don't intend for survivors to win individually.
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because it's very rewarding and takes no skill
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Because in Solo Q NOED it’s pure agony. You can’t be certain your teammates will be on bones mine rarely are and that means I have to go out of my way to deal with them and it just ends in a loss scenario because you’re not doing gens allowing the killer to get downs or secure a three gen. And because the killer might not even have it means you’ve lost in an attempt to prevent something that wasn’t there. Dumb design gives no player input refuse to run it.
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Wrong. It requires Survivor skill to cleanse it. They tend to gloss over this to blame the Killer instead.
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On the list of things that annoy me as a solo NOED isn't even on the radar, it's definitely not pure agony.
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It’s not too OP, it is meant for newer killers or end game builds plus it’s a hex so you can cleanse it, and it’s just funny when you get face camped with NOED. But an idea for the perk is maybe they can make the hex spawn at 1 gen so the survivors have a chance to cleanse it before the exit gates power it’s kind of like devour, before everyone is exposed the hex is in the game to cleanse
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NOED is fine.
Is just feels frustrating for lazy survivors who don't cleanse totems because bad killers manages to get a few kills due this perk and survivors own laziness.
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Why are you playing against Killers with 4,970 fewer hours than you?
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I know this is hard to believe, but you don't have to cleanse 5 totems.
You need to cleanse ONE.
It is far smarter to make a mental note of dulls you walk by, and swinging back around once the last gen pops, than to try to hunt down ALL FIVE.
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I don't understand why so many people are so resistant to see NOED be changed and likely get buffed.
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Because it's just a frustrating perk to go up against and synergizes too well with certain killer kits.
That said:
This is also true. I wish there was a middle ground between 'teabagging in the exit gates' levels of 'gens are done, let's go home boys' non threat and 'yay, I played that out perfectly, but got nailed at the wrong moment and now I'm getting camped out of a pip because we can't find that one totem spawn on Midwich' obnoxiousness.
Like...maybe a 2% speed boost for every survivor alive once 5 gens are done?
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that's my one complaint about NOED it is an end game perk. Killers who run it 98 percent of the time don't even let the game get close to the end. So why run it at all. in case you come up against a team that outplays you?
As one of the feels like few who do bones in a game I hate seeing it. You'd also be surprised how mad killers get when you take out their instant down perks, be it NOED or Devour Hope.
If they find who did it they get really campy and smack on the hook A LOT
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You haven’t faced three straight of them leading to camped to death on hook since teammates can’t find bones in time.
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Its hilarious that there are still people defending NOED.
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I don't mind noed I mean it puts the danger back in the game I play solo and I do at least 2 to 3 totems some time 4 and 5 make sure I do it if I see one
if I get hit with noed I blame my teammates more then the killer using it I mean whole game they were only using 3 perks
like I said in other posts I use it sometime on weaker killers I like to use sometime never get used either by survivors do all 5 bones or I killed everyone before the last gen done.
with boons going up every match noed looking like pretty good perk, survivor hate doing bones but don't mind putting a boon back up many time funny right?
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Because survivors will complain about anything that makes the game more difficult. Remember, these are people who legitimately think a Kobe means they get a free escape. I played a SWF yesterday afternoon full of people chaining together head on stuns and flash bangs and having a good time. So I played like a jerk too and tunneled one out and got a 3k.
Surprise surprise they flood my messages with party invites and messages whining about how I played and how it was “cheap”.
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Survivors: "Noed is bad because it rewards a player being bad"
Also Survivors: "But I run all kinds of second chance perks because I always get caught"
Summary: run whatever perks you want, just put them on the hook and no one cares what gamers say on forums
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who? is this bait or shadowboxing
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I am a survivor main, and for me NOED is fine, needs no change.
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Because it's a cheap perk that rewards low skill plays. I am not saying everyone using this perk is bad killer but it helps a lot for killers who just like to camp hooks and be overall toxic in game and in the end game chat sometimes.
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It's hilarious that people are still making up fake flaws for NoED.
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Its hilarious how survivors can have second chance perks to escape, but oh no killer has a second chance, at the end of the match.
lolz, on the hook
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Yep! Survivors bring 16 second-chance perks per match, and Killers need to 'git gud'.
But Killers bring NoED for a second chance after 5 gens pop? No! Killers already lost! It rewards failing! It's crutch! Survivors already won because they say so! Doing bones is impossible (But we can sure as heck Boon totems 40 times a match!)! It's unfun! Unhealthy, even! 😂
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Not true for all survivors, escaping is defined as a win.
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Yes, but most of the complaints about NOED come from thinking 5 Generators being done means they won
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The same principle as carrying a contraceptive in your wallet.
It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it :).
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Imo Noed is completely fair and balanced and that's coming from a survivor main.
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NOED isnt a second chance perk. Its a gamechanger for doing abolutely nothing. The game is designed around survivor having second-chance perks. If people dont understand this after 5 years, its kinda embarassing for you guys.
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And you're saying DH is not a gamechanger when it lets you loop the kilelr for another 30 seconds & 3 gens pop?
Or D.Strike when you're near an open exit gate?
Changing the definition does not change the facts. And nothing in the game states Killers cannot have a second chance perk. Nor do Survivors get to decide what's fair for Killers to have.
If people don't understand this after 5 years, its kinda embarrassing for you guys.
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