General Discussions
General Discussions
The Killer perk meta is pretty balanced
Ruin, Undying, Dead Man's Switch, Deadlock, Pain Resonance, No Way Out, Corrupt and Jolt are all viable right now depending on the Killer and the build.
We probably have the most variety in the Killer perk meta in years right now. More people should acknowledge this because its pretty rare that the Devs actually balance perks so there's competition between them.
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I wish I could say the same about Survivor meta.
You have just few S tier perks, then few A tier perks (that are weaker than S, so why would you run them anyway), and then the rest 75% of perks are somewhere between B -> F (aka why would you EVER run them unless you do fun builds).
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Power creep. The killer meta is actually a huge problem.
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Power Creep - When newer things are on a stronger level than older things in video games making the older things obsolete.
(in case you didn't understand the word you were using)
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For the most part both metas are balanced. Dead hard is the only meta perk in the game I think is unbalanced.
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its balanced because its pretty easy to pressure gens from the entire map now. dont actually have to do it yourself anymore! i have considered just moving on lately.....its so bland at this point
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Did you forget CoH exists or something?
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No I was there. I am aware of the existence of said boon.
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You think CoH is balanced?
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Wait...
You forgot one, spine chill is up there with DH as a OP meta survivor perk...
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Hi Sluzzy, still haven't tried any killer have you?
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With the new nerf as balanced as it can be without nerfing the whole boon mechanic. And none of the other boons are good enough to warrant a change like that
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With the upcoming nerf, yeah it'll be fine
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The power levels of killers are power creeping. You don't need a better Ruin, just add a perk that makes it stay up longer. Add another perk like Ruin that gives you a notification when they are working on it. All of these can be stacked together to guarantee wins.
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You can't stack Ruin with Call Of Brine, are you stuck in the past when gens could be kicked while Ruin was active?
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That is what I mean, the killer meta does the job for the killer. It is beyond broken and very boring to verse.
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Being on topic, I do enjoy the fact that I have multiple gen control tools at my disposal that could work on any killer.
Sometimes i want Corrupt
Maybe I'm feeling Surge
I could use Dead Man's Switch sometimes
There's always something available for anyone and it works for them, which is good.
This could not be said for survivors in the slightest.
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Pop Goes The Weasel has been in the game since 2018, what are you smoking?
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I am kind of disappointed that the strongest perks to choose from are all about gen control. I would like to see more variety from that.
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Not really possible with the gen speeds currently. Stronger killers can get away with whatever build they want for the most part, but weaker ones are pretty restricted. M1 killers are basically only ever going to get downs after all the safe pallets in an area have been cleared out, and there is simply not enough time for them to do that without multiple slowdowns.
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Spine chill is OP now? oh my........................
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Killers get massive advantage with Ruin. When it is gone, they fall back to Call of Brine. Constant barrage of gen slowdown.
All of these slowdowns added but survivors haven't been given anything to get gens done quicker or stay alive longer.
Developers forgot that these perks are broken if 4 survivors can't all be at the end of the game. With only 2 or 3 survivors, there is no way to finish gens when killers are constantly notified of survivor whereabouts.
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There are daily topics about SC to be nerfed
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People on these forums want everything nerfed, so it's not like a lot of threads wanting something to be nerfed mean anything imo.
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There's one listed directly underneath this thread at the time of this post
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320159/spine-chill-shouldnt-work-on-undetectable-killers-perks
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I shouldn't have bothered @ you, I forgot trying to discuss with you is pointless
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A lot of people disagree with me (after all, I don't own the truth) but I think that the "No way out" perk since it was released I always found its activation inappropriate, I would prefer tokens to be given (up to a limit of 4) when the killer was stunned with pallets,because those who play well and can make hooks easily don't need this perk so much, and less skilled players suffer a lot with pallets and can't make so many hooks to make the perk useful, killers have a lot of hook perks and few counter perks, I think that at least for me is missing
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You can also add Pop, CoB, STBFL, BBQ, FoR, HG, MYC, Devour, Plaything, Pentimento, Retribution, Thana and probably a few others I'm forgetting. I think the killer meta is better than it's ever been.
Here's the problem with the survivor meta.
'Tier' is relative.
Survivors have a lot of good perks, and a few that are so strong that not using them is almost playing the game wrong.
DH and CoH are probably the best examples. BT and DS are also crazy strong, but are sort of required to be strong.
There are plenty of other great survivor perks, but they are just overshadowed by the power of ridiculously fast teamwide heals and a third health state.
I'm...not sure if you understand what that means.
Both sides have experienced a lot of buffs as of late (DH 'fix', CoH on the survivor end).
The handful of nerfs doled out were mostly because the stuff nerfed was straight up unhealthy for the game (keys, BO, OoO).
Because SC has been quietly broken for years now, it's just not as visibly impactful as DH and CoH.
It shouldn't blind counter Myers for starters.
When there are a sufficient number of feedback criticisms about an aspect of your game, it definitely demonstrates that a lot of people are frustrated by that aspect.
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Ruin? Gets destroyed… Survivor decides when totems stay. Players remember the spawns and go straight to them. Brine is okay, but it’s like ToT. You gotta look around before leaving it alone to regress. Wasting more time. The only good perk gen slow down is new Dead Man’s Switch, and I suggested this change many times! It’s balanced because it requires catching AND hooking survivors. Saying DMS is broken is like saying Pop is too. It’s simple to prevent. Stop getting caught so fast! 🤣
I played both sides enough to know that survivor is about as hard as playing killer IF YOU SOLO. Find a competent group to survive with, and you’ll stop losing altogether. The devs have to always work around the later because that’s what the community wants to do.
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SC isn't broken.
Post edited by Gcarrara on5 -
It’d be interesting to see data on perk usage for killers to at least get an objective measure of what the most commonly used killer perks are and then pivot those out against kill rates to see which ones have strong correlations with high kill rates. Without that it’s difficult to say which perks are overpowered versus just being perceived as being overpowered.
For instance, is Corrupt Intervention actually possibly overpowered relative to other perks? Or is it inline with other good perks but just happens to benefit from word of mouth and positive feedback makes it more popular? Same with NOED, a lot of posters try to claim it’s overpowered but that perk has been in the game so long it’s pretty likely that if it were actually linked in the data to overly high kill rates it would have been nerfed a while ago assuming it takes them a year or two to get around to nerfing something that’s busted.
The one thing I think nearly everybody can agree on, though, is there are some really, really weak perks on both sides that could still use buffs. I suspect the devs prioritize nerfing things that are too powerful over buffing things that are too weak since things that are too weak just don’t get used much so don’t impact the overall game as often as broken things which lots of people use. But hopefully one of these days they’ll buff Monstrous Shrine, for instance.
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Ruin is a high risk/reward perk. If survivors find it, it's useless. If they don't, it's basically GG. This depends a lot on luck and a fair amount on survivor map knowledge.
CoB is amazing, but you need to pair it with either extreme mobility (Wraith and Spirit work well with CoB) or another regression perk (Pop is good). Not only do you get regression, but you get excellent info.
PR is incredible.
DMS and blocker perks are good, but have a serious drawback - the 'dam' effect.
Post edited by Gcarrara on0 -
they have to make most gen control perks basekit for that to happen with out tho perks gen just fly.
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you want gens done quicker!!?!?! what are you smoking?
with out gen control perks for killer gen go too fast
games are to short as is with tho perks.
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It's sort of inevitable that the perks that slow down the primary objective are meta.
I'd love to see more offense oriented perks like STBFL, PWYF, Rancor, Devour etc. but these are really tough to balance.
Yawn.
- Ruin is as powerful as the map and the survivors want it to be. It's a huge risk/reward perk.
- Call of Brine isn't all that strong at all. Just tap the gen.
- Survivors have endless tools to finish gens quicker and stay alive longer. That's what...nearly every meta survivor perk does. What?
- Yes, this game is snowbally in nature. If one survivor dies/DCs/suicides early, the killer generally wins. If 4 survivors are alive at 1-2 gens left, at least 3 will generally escape. That's sort of how the game works.
- Asserting that something is broken doesn't mean that thing is broken.
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Hooking survivors are inevitable. If it is guaranteed to happen, why should the other side be prevented from doing their objective?
Boil Over is being nerfed because it makes hooking survivors "a little too difficult". This balancing is not considered or applied to survivor side. Survivors have to finish gens just like killers have to hook in order to do their objective.
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I love how Boons and No Way Out have pushed Noed into a viable meta call.
My idea of gen slowdown is to just kill everybody so it's nice to play to my strengths
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there are more meta killer perks than the 8 you listed, and for survivors, well #########. they only have 4 meta perks lmao. sad state to be a solo survivor main
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What?
Sluzzy, as is...far too often the case, I'm not sure whether you are being facetious here.
DMS doesn't 'prevent' you from doing anything. It has multiple forms of counterplay, all of which are effective.
Boil Over was nerfed because it allowed survivors to become literally unhookable on certain maps, forcing the killer to hard slug and camp them. Why do you think this was worth keeping in the game?
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self care is broken? jfc you guys hahaha
edit: maybe you meant spine chill. still, spine chill is broken? jfc you guys hahaha
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Wat.
SC = Spine Chill. That...wasn't obvious from context?
Although I can see why the confusion arises, forgot that two perks share the same acronym :).
Survivors have plenty of good perks, at least on par with killer.
The issue is that survivors also have maybe 5 or 6 perks that are so ridiculously powerful that, after a certain point, nobody interested in maximizing their performance is going to bother running anything else. That's why you see Dead Hard and CoH in basically every match - it doesn't mean that Sprint Burst, Self Care, Desperate Measures and the like are weak, it means that there are better options.
Sometimes, power is relative.
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You're right Killers have more meta perks that I didn't list. I was focusing on slowdown options specifically. Things like BBQ, Tinkerer, Starstruck, Infectious Fright, No ED, Blood Favor, Discordance, Save the Best for Last, Bamboozle, Monitor and Abuse and Discordance are all potential meta perks depending on the Killer.
I would say the SS/S/A Tier Survivor Perks are Circle of Healing, Shadow Step, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, Overcome, Sprint Burst, Spine Chill, Resilience, Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Iron Will and Deliverance. It's not a ton of variety and its worse for Survivors because they're all the same so there aren't Survivor specific builds in the way there are Killer specific builds. But its more than four meta perks
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Great meta balance with 10 out of 90 perks being used always depending on the character.
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Agreed, if they make COH basekit also
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Most of these perks are slowdown perks that can be used on every Killer with some success.
If we want to add-in all the perks that could be meta depending on the Killer (like Bamboozle on Bubba or Infectious on Oni). You'd probably get 10-20 more perks
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Your name sounds familiar. I keep asking, but are you the same guy that accused Otz of cheating in that video? Really curious.
I'd say more like 30 out of 90. And...yeah, the fact that killers aren't all just running ye olde Undying+Ruin setups is a massive improvement.
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I mean they could just do a specific nerf to only CoH by making it only be places 2-3 times per match. That way other boons don't have to suffer because of how overtuned they made CoH
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Hahaha! There are FOUR of us running around, and killer can only pursue one at a time! Leaving 3 others to do whatever… If survivors can run killers away from the gen for over 30 seconds each time they will likely win. Killers wouldn’t need new DMS if the devs left old Ruin/Undying alone. It wasn’t like we could use a myriad of perks, or a map to crush totems. Then Counterforce came which ****s on totems… Then BOONS?? Lordy 😂.
This is off topic, but the genuine “Change” to balance survivor side is to enable sabotaging as basekit. In exchange it takes a while to perform. Gens, totems, and hooks are the only things survivors can interact with. So they should be able to do so without needing items/perks… That way survivors have something “to do” other than gens since totems are more of a hit/miss. If survivors could potentially work together to prevent death hooks that would always take them from gens. Toolboxes would speed up sabotaging. Buff Saboteur to let players see hook auras of where someone is downed as opposed to being carried.
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Boons are unfortunately completely krangled at the design level.
The fact that they can be present 100% of the game and cover almost the entire map when sited correctly, with almost no realistic counterplay means that they either need to be weaksauce (and thus never used) or completely break the game (CoH).
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You know the difference in exploiting and cheating? Obviously not.
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