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"Rewarding bad play" is not an argument against NOED
Comments
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I have no problem with NOED, but justifying something potentially unhealthy by using other Perks as examples isn't the best argument that could be made.
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Genius 😆
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Survivors need to get out of this mentality that you need to find all five totems.
You don't.
You need to find ONE totem.
Literally just remember every time you see a Dull Totem, then circle back after the last gen pops. I blow up NOED all the time. People act like there is no counter to this. It's absurd.
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NOED is as unhealthy and unfair as DH and CoH is.
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It's the devs' jobs to see if all those wins are gained through NOED or not. It's not our responsibility to not use a perk because it supposedly skews the results. That's just guilt tripping the players instead of the devs' bad game design and sense of measuring in-game results.
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Yeah but they wouldn't look into it like that, remember their fix to giddeon being killer sided was add XX safe/god pallets in.
Using NOED will also definitely hurt players learning and getting better without it, afterall if they get extra kills due to it and go up in mmr they shall verse harder opponents and likely have less of a fun time as they're relying on it to help them.
I have no issues with the perk itself but I dont have faith in the devs to balance killers through things that can twist result and I also see alot of killers that struggle through a match have noed at the end. Once again I dont care but it just feels like they're misplaced and shouldn't be versing me but noed has lifted their mmr
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I have 5000 hours and I play with killers with 100 hours or less, all with noed, of course
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You did so much more in the game... held a button to fix gens.
maybe you could do the same by destroying totems. just an idea
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Oh iv never had that, I just mean the noed users are what most people would call the average player but because I'm what people would call a sweaty tryhard they shouldn't be versing me.
Like I'm not saying they're baby killers but they certainly arent on par with the other killers I verse and I feel noed has boosted them up.
Quite often i will run a killer for 3 gens and they will get mad at me for doing so but they will have noed at the end. Once again i dont mind noed but clearly its lifted them to a spot they cant handle
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Until the devs reward learning to play the game, and skill, NOED hurting the learning curve isn't that bad. You're gonna realize eventually that you need it to beat the highest caliber anyway. And it does create a risk/reward kind of strategy, which adds to learning, where it's like, "I can count on NOED at the end, so I can take this chase here" or "there's no way NOED activates, so I have to cut my losses here and now". That kind of thing.
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believe me this kind of biased people were majority of this forum
heavily improved user level because kids grown now
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You obviously never played against the same godnurses as they played addonless. There was a period where they deliberately showed how broken basekit nurse is. And that was even before they fixed most of her bugs. Dont talk big if youre in no position for anything worthful.
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Tru3ta1ent calls Noed the "data killer." It makes matches look even when they were not. Killer got stomped all game then gets 1 or 2 kills because of noed at the end. Horrible for balancing.
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Unlike you I have a whole body of work that speaks for itself and years worth of content that proves what I'm capable of in DBD which is obviously more than you. I spend most of my time actually creating content and perfecting all my crafts instead of crying about my shortcomings on the forums like you Mr/Ms 700 posts worth of excuses and survivor bias. You spend way more time here than me and yet still nobody agrees or respects your trash take, it's pretty clear which one of knows what we're talking about
I also love you how assume I haven't gone against god Nurses meanwhile I'm nearly one myself and still don't find her basekit OP when I play against any decent ones out there because I don't make the same predictable movements multiple times and I know how to abuse LoS to kill maximum amounts of time. Imagine thinking a Killer's basekit is "OvErPoWeReD" when it wasn't even working properly for years.... News flash but most of DBD forum takes from people like you here are less about things being overpowered and more about one side not being able to close the gap in skill. Sorry but if you're regularly getting stomped by a Killer with no addons or a Survivor with no Perks/Items then that's more of you being a **** player and not a balance issue...No wonder you think a perk is unfair when you'd probably struggle if the same player had none of them equipped
Nurse was bugged for so long yet people weren't really complaining until recently when she became fixed and reactivated. More Nurse players came back to use her again and people are butthurt that they have less easy matches than when she was gone but yes, The kid that cries about addon-less Nurse and NOED is in a better position than all of us to discuss balance and skill
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I see it more as it is the level of the reward. You get a 5% increase in movement and also instadown WITHOUT a warning. IMO if NOED just notified all survivors it was active the moment the gens were done, it wouldn't be as bad.
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keep see people say noed boosted bad killers but you know what else gets boosted up survivors in swf group
it the same if you think about it.
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I truely hit the mark as youre just raging, throwing out false accusations, trying to "make fun" of my gamesense and skill, trying to make me look biased by purposely misjudging all my posts (you obviously never read). Ah yes and making false statements like "yet people werent complayining until recently", which is btw easily proved wrong. You really made yourself laughable.
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Tru3ta1ent says a lot of things, they're not all winners.
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I have yet to see any statistical evidence NOED is better than, say, Haunted Grounds in increasing kill rates. I'm not saying it's a bad perk, it's a solid one, but most of the complaints I see leveled against NOED fall into either
- "It rewards bad play". Which is a bad argument because it's falsely assuming that if the gens are done the killer was "bad". When in fact the game is intentionally designed so that when the survivors play well and the killer plays well the kills will be in the 1-3 range so the gens should be done most of the time. If anything gens being stopped most of the time would be an indication something is off that favors killers, that's not supposed to be the norm.
- "It's not fun to have a strong perk in the end game". The only reason it's "not fun" is because people hate falsely thinking they've won the match already only to lose at the very end. I've never seen anybody complain after my matches when Haunted Grounds gives me a 4k by giving me 2-3 instant downs midgame, but because of this false sense of victory when the gens are done if NOED gives even a single down it's "unfair".
Honestly, NOED has been in the game since the very beginning, I guarantee the devs have looked at it periodically and never seen it causing kill inflation. And yeah, they're slow to act on thing, but by now they've adjusted almost everything else that's that old (e.g. keys, hatches, moris, a bunch of killer abilities, etc) or at the very least said they are actively working on it (e.g. They've talked about not being happy with Dead Hard's stats and also about how they've been experimenting with ways to mitigate face camping). If NOED really were problematic it would have almost certainly shown up as something they're focused on changing at some point.
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Daily truths:
-Devs don't understand how to balance the game so they throw "op" perks and people use them because people usually want to win when play.
-Most of people that complain about some perks is because they play only one side. Both sides have unfair things to counter the other side.
- People need to stop play the game like it's a competitive one, it's not, for many reason (easy cheats, unbalanced perks...)
If you really think that noed is op you are wrong. It's "op" on solo queue maybe, not agains swf. Sometimes it popped in 30 seconds after the 5th gens even in solo queue.
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I'd argue that if new killers rely so much on NOED, they might not move on ever as they will still play in a way that will keep a fallback, and once they see they actually needed as they learned that way, there might not be going back.
On the other hand, you have new survivors that might get crushed every time and get discouraged from playing as everything was for nothing.
And I am just mentioning that because it's your same argument on the other side. You could even say that about DH, for example. But then it becomse meta.
My problem with NOED es that it gives you all in exchange for nothing. All you need to do is equip it and sit back. You don't need to build it up, nor protect it because it's not there, and sudenly you become faster and get instadown, negating even saves from healthy surv.
I am OK with the existece of the perk, but I despise it's state because as I said, all for nothing
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You're still talking?? ...I don't have to judge or make you 'look' any type of way, you've already done that yourself with your terrible opinions that conveniently only favor one side and your blatant hypocrisy shows in the upvote ratios and your words. Here's a compilation of things you've said so far since your memory is a lil foggy ^^^ I promise you 100% of the people that would ever agree with such poor takes are also players that only play one side of the game and still aren't even good at it.
This is comedy though, a rookie talking to vets about worth, logic, gamesense, poor mindsets and then saying I made fun of you to make you look bad.. All I did was match your energy and now you're salty that I'm speaking facts about NOED and Nurse. What have I said that can be 'proven wrong'? People leave their thoughts on everything in DBD forums/discord at all times therefore pointing to the 300 rookies of the world that said she's OP 10 months ago doesn't prove anything other than its a flash in the pan compared to all the actually relevant topics. What CAN be proven is that like I said, ever since she got disabled for maintenance people have been creating an echo chamber about her potential since they got a free taste of how much easier the game is without her in it. Remind me why she was disabled - Oh yeahhh its because she was bugged which benefitted Survivors but since that's convenient for most of you it got swept under the rug for years.
She became a very popular topic within the last few months when in reality before the maintenance she wasn't mentioned on here nearly as much because people were too busy worried about CoH/Spirit/Blight/NOED/DH/The last 4 DLC Releases/Haddonfield/Boil Over/Dead Man's Switch/(Insert all the way more relevant topics)..
You can also see yourself above contradicting what you said earlier from one sentence to the next by saying Adrenaline is a perfectly fine bonus at the end-game while complaining that NOED 'rewards' for nothing. Is that me making this up or are you just oblivious to your own thoughts? I'm pretty sure that Adrenaline rewards players for....what exactly? With NOED you play with 3 perks for the majority of the match in exchange for momentum at the end just like Adrenaline, Hope, Blood Warden and NWO. Most people would do anything or tolerate any trigger condition as long as they get the potential of the perk at the end, therefore Adrenaline and NOED etc. should be straight-forward non issues but here you are complaining about anything positive for Killers... If you truly played Survivor at even a mediocre level you would be able to spot totems and deal with NOED while understanding you control whether or not it even activates and if its not logical then its better to just pop the gate to escape which should be enough to satisfy you.
I don't get it, Killers get told to "apply pressure" in even the most impossible/lopsided scenarios but "do bones" is somehow not a cliche but accurate argument for NOED? What skill is involved in taking an M1 or being alive after 5 generators or getting hooked? Nothing, yet they still provide meta performance for things that naturally take place in every match regardless of skill. I don't see you complaining about any of those though, but its a smear campaign if I say you're biased 😂 Either all these end-game perks are fair or they're all busted, make up your mind
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I just wanted unlimited NOED like when the game first came out. 😈
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'survivors hold all power over its use'.
Oh, so getting downed and hooked next to noed while it spawns after I get downed, but me having no comms and thus no warning to my teammates, giving the killer a free 2k is in the hands of survivors? Bubba getting a lucky early down and facecamping a survivor, forcing all remaining survivors to finish all gens in the remaining 2 minutes it takes for the teammate to die on hook, assuming they don't give up early nor miss any skillchecks making it impossible to even touch a single totem before Bubba moves from the hook gives survivors full power over it?
If survivors truly had all power over the activation of NOED, it would indeed be fine. But that is obviously not the case.
As for perks rewarding misplay. Which ones?
DS? I mean, you tunneled, that is not my misplay. DH? Unless I get really lucky tiles, a hit is inevitable, not a misplay, or do you mean using it would have rewarded a misplay? Maybe, but if it did, it was also a bad DH that should lead into a quick down. If it isn't a quick down, was it really a misplay? Maybe from your perspective, but so is losing 5 gens from a survivor perspective a misplay, making NOED a reward for misplay by default, or any endgame perk for that matter. BT Maybe the play was done because you were there. So really, what misplay gets rewarded? And that's only 3 that I can think of that might even have a hint of "misplay". None other that I can think of. In fact, Undying is more of a misplay perk fix than any of those, as it literally fixes the fact that a hex got found early on.
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I'm not a veteran of either DbD or these forums, and I play both killer and survivor. Personally, yeah I get a little bit ****** off when I've had a great game as survivor, ran the killer, been altruistic, fixed gens etc and then I get hit, downed, hooked and the swf I was teamed with all leave together without even trying to find the totem (I play 90%+ of my survivor games as soloQ), yet I don't think NOED is a weak-killer tool or anything similar. After all, while I'm not the type of player who hunts for bones during the match, I could have. I also don't know spawn locations for totems (especially in Lerys), and actually believe the fact that people DO know them is a problem which the devs should fix.
When I play killer, I don't run NOED, because I tend to favour perks that give me tangible benefits for the duration of the game, yet I see the point and potential of end game builds (as I think of them). I also tend to end my games before the last generator is fixed. However, there have been times when I've been figuratively tortured by a swf, like yesterday, 4 man swf, me as Hag, 3 flashlights, I got 2 hooks out of the whole match and about 4 other hits which were healed before I could down them. They looped me like gods, 360s all over the place, and then carried on the torture for a good 3 minutes after the last generator was fixed before opening the exit gate, and then carried it on until the timer ended. (The gap between PC and console was never shown so glaringly to me lol). During the EGC I got 1 down and hook, and left one to die on the ground as timer was almost gone. This match was absolute torture, and NOED might have helped, but realistically not in a very big way, and I'd personally have preferred if EVERY SINGLE ONE of my hex totems (4 hex build) hadn't been destroyed immediately and in a coordinated fashion (1-2 seconds between booms) while I was in my first chase with the first loop god lol.
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The only problem that causes survivors to complain and beggar is that there is no perceived COST.
Killers need not preform any setup or make any astounding plays - it is a free late game Devour Hope that cannot be cleansed before activation.
It does not 'Reward' bad gameplay because it is incapable of rewarding action. There is no context for it other than a part of the game that is completely normal.
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"just do bones" is an unrealistic expectation
Especially for SoloQ.
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I do not see any of those gurantee an escape the way that NOED gurantees a kill, unless you suck.
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Noed isn't a problem you can stop it before it happens and besides most good killers don't run it anyway it's always bad killers with NOED and you can pretty much know by the way they're playing if they're gonna have it or not, you have a killer whiffing at every turn and struggling to get hooks? He's probably got NOED so watch out come end game
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I never understood how the same people that say "it rewards bad play" also argue that they couldn't possibly be expected to do all the totems.
Like if the killer is putting on so much pressure that you can't afford the time to find and cleanse totems, then they obviously aren't playing badly.
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The same people also claim that the small speed boost is enough for these "bad killers" to camp a hook, totem and both gates all at the same time, which I think is a skill even people who have won real money playing this game would envy.
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If gens are done and the killer only got 0-1 hooks yes, the killer is bad
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If the gens are done and the killer only got 0-1 hooks, then you have had plenty of breathing room to go get rid of totems.
Noed doesn't reward bad play, it punishes lazy play.
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Yes, it rewards bad killers. I play very few killer games, and I always do the same. I break as many pallets as I can and at the end I demolish survs with noed. Easy as hell
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A strategy that only works because the survivors are choosing to be lazy and not remove your totems. It's entirely within their power to deny you the perk at all.
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well, we see when devs nerf noed if killers are bad or not
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Nice strawman. Who said anything about people getting no hooks the entire match?
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More like noed "punishes" bad gameplay. Bad survivor gameplay :p
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NOED is mostly fine. Remove the speed boost, or have the exposed effect show immediately after all gens are done and NOED will seem less cheap.
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If NOED nets you more the one hook as killer, the survivors were trash. Period.
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Most of the arguments against NOED are just salty players who didn't account for it and expected to escape.
NOED is great because it makes the endgame exciting. When survivors are at their strongest and are almost assured to escape, gates are 99'd or open there is this last threatening hurdle to face that makes the end game high stakes.
Its a great perk for that reason. Without the threat of death why are people even trying to escape in the first place, NOED is both mechanically and thematically great. Its the grand finale.
The other argument I see a lot is you have to account for it whether the killer has it or not but there are heaps of perks like that on both sides. I'm never surprised by NOED because I expect it just as I'm never surprised by DS, UB, DH because I expect those things to be in play.
I'm often more surprised when people don't have them rather than do.
If they nerf NOED it'll just be another nail in the coffin of this game's excitement.
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Well, create a perk for survs to make egc more exciting. Something with a speed boost and you have to hit them 3 times to put them in dying state
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I realize this is just snide bait but lets bite anyway...
That doesn't make it more exciting, its survival horror not x-men. Survivors should be vulnerable in the endgame.
There are plenty of marvel themed games where the heroes always win and nothing surprising ever happens.
Who would watch a horror film where the antagonist is in no way threatening? DBD is basically recreating that setting. It baffles me that people want survivor to be uber godlike or even equal to the killer 1v1. Survivors are already at their best position during the egc because their objective is complete.
Also what you suggest already basically exists its called adrenalin.
The dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums is someone saying "they never feel safe as survivor" but its survival horror you're not meant to feel safe. The whole premise of the game is this isn't safe you need to get out before you get killed.
Why do you play this game if not for the theme of it?
If you want a watered down party game experience where all's friendly, equal and no one ever dies, play Fall Guys... its great I play a lot of it but its not DBD. Why people want to turn DBD into Fall Guys baffles me.
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Why isn't there a bones counter?
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Probably shouldn't of taken the bait. Because you said endgame, and this commenter said EGC. They were changing the narrative of your comment.
Honestly Survivors should be escaping if they are still around during EGC. As far as making End Game more exciting for survivors - it already is, they still have to open one of two doors.
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If you build around NOED, then I think it's fine. Like No Way Out, NOED, etc,etc.
However, if you are just randomly throwing NOED into your build just because it's better than every other perk in the entire game for giving you kills, then it's a problem.
It lets you far exceed your actual skill level as killer and is holding back killer buffs by boosting kill rates for killer-players that don't deserve those kills.
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Well that's the only issue I have with it is twisting stats as its definitely the top perk to twist kills with.
But I dont mind versing if I ignore that factor, I'd just discourage new players using it as they will climb the mmr faster and they would be better of running other perks to help teach them alot of core aspects especially setups, mindgames and which pallets to break etc.
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And that’s why are so many killers here complaining. This is a video game, not a place where people who need to feel powerful against others come to kill them
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Who said anything about killers feeling powerful, my comment is about survivor game experience. I don't get why survivors complain about NOED as its thematically great.
I think a lot of it is its a strong perk that activates at game end and the common reaction is I expected to escape and didn't boo hoo.
How debate/argument often works is the counter response is typically relevant to the point its responding to. Think about it and give it another try that'll be your homework eh. (<- this is snide and belittling but its meant to be because I have very little respect for you random online stranger, the exposition is just to make sure we are on the same page as you seem to struggle with topic 😅).
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Yeah, I agree. EDIT: EGC is just the tail end of the endgame so it doesn't change the narrative enough to impact my point.
I still say NOED adds extra bite to even the most one sided game, that's why I like it. I don't actually run it much myself as killer but when I face it as survivor it always makes me smile. "Now we're talking" kind of reaction.
Do I go for the gate, search for the totem, do a high risk hook save or just run out the door and save my own butt? Tough choices make for interesting games.
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