General Discussions
General Discussions
New anti tunneling and camping mechanic
Comments
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It's not nearly enough. Immediately the first thing I've noticed. The Endurance Status effect and Haste status effect duration needs to be 12 second at least, I would even say 20 seconds. And the hook phase timer absolutely needs to be increased to 80 or 90 seconds, now that gen time is being increased.
I don't get why they would be so careful with survivor buffs when they are buffing almost everything of killer.
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XD this update is so fun, can't wait for nurses with monstrous shrine and make your choice camping from 24 meters having to wait and outstanding 5 seconds
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You will still need BT. Because 5 seconds is laughable, this is easily waited out, unless there is a window or Pallet really, really close to the Hook.
So this change does nothing to drop then usage of BT and if it does, it just makes tunneling easier, because some Survivors might think the 5 seconds are enough.
The DS-Nerf is also just dumb. I can accept it being deactivated during Endgame, IF they buff its Anti-Tunnel-Ability more. But they dont, they in fact nerfed the Stun Time to 3 seconds, which is not enough. 1,3 seconds are already used for the animation, so the Surivvor will only get around 7 meters of distance after hitting DS. Now even more Killers will just laugh about it and tunnel the ######### out of Survivors.
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Because kill rates have fallen so low that they are a bit nervous to give buffs to survivors, people have been complaining about how op killers were, but honestly, this shows just how wrong they are. When kill rates rise again, there will surely be increases on those parts, but at the moment just be grateful that borrowed time is base kit it's not a bad thing no more getting farmed off the hook which I'm quite happy about lol.
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Well none of these changes are permanent, so I'm sure they'll revisit these anti tunneling and camping mechanics. Don't think I agree with the hook phase timer, but I do hope they'll look at DS again and make some sort of a version basekit because I do agree that the anti camping and tunneling mechanics won't do much in most situations.
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Needs to be at best a 12 second endurance effect to even do anything
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The new anti-camping mechanic is that there is no new anti-camping mechanic. Isn't that going to be fun? With these increased gen times, face-camping has never been stronger.
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Time to dust off bubba boiz
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Yeah i'm a little worried. Seems camping/tunneling might be even stronger now.
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Don't worry 7% vs nurse with double range that moves at 499% is gonna be the solution to all tunneling problems
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We've tested a whole bunch of durations for them leading up to this, and often times they felt too long to be in the base kit. 5 seconds may not sound like much, but it can be a game changer. As long as you can reach a pallet in that time, it accomplishes the same thing. Alternatively, another Survivor can use this time to get in position and take a hit for you.
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Yeah Peanits go and tell to the nurse player using double range which allows her to move at around 499% what damage 7% of speed is gonna do, i don't really think you realize that all this update does is make camping and tunneling even more stornger, but hey can u guys give us 100k bloodpoints i'd really need that ty <3
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If they have the guts to make these changes then nurse's days might be numbered as well.
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Can we get a link pointing to what you are talking about?
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But this only really (weakly) addresses tunniling. Killers can easily count to 5 and if nothing is around, it won't help anyone. This also does not help against Basement Bubbas or other killers with strong camping powers. Killers got longer gen times, slower hit cooldown and faster breaking speed, meanwhile survivors get a 5 second basekit BT? We'd still have to run DS if we wanna avoid getting tunneled and Bubbas can still ruin the game for everyone by standing still in front of a hooked survivor. I was really hopeful there'd be some kind of punishment for killers staying around hook with no other survivors around to discourage camping. Survivors can still be easily singled out by killers, if the killers really want to. :/
Edit: The longer gen times are only helping camping killers
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Oh yeah exactly in the same update where they buff bloodlust. Wonderfull days are ahead for dbd i'm so excited for monstrous shrine bubba, pain resonance,dms gameplays and double range nurse having to wait 5 seconds
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Thanks :)
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The changes do basically nothing to camping, which I'd really like to see Behaviour bring the hammer down on because it's just awful gameplay for everyone involved. I'd say they probably hit tunneling a good amount though.
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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/337
This update contains ALL of the perk changes plus MANY basegame changes.
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Thanks. I kind of like most of the changes or their direction. (Not Dead Hard though, at first glance, it feels stronger than before.)
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absolutely laughable changes. 5s is nothing you still need BT
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Because kill rates have probably dropped to below 50%. They aren't releasing stats but have stated 50% is their goal, and in the past few years kill rates across the board have trended down to 50, if the trend continues we might well be in the ~40s atm(or even lower). Also 20 seconds of 7% haste and endurance? That's insane, I can already picture the ridiculous body block shenanigans as well as what you can pull off with a green medkit + healing speed buffs.
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Some of these changes sound like they were from community posts as well, I remember Monstrous Shrine rework posts that sound VERY similar to what we're getting (Basement hooks becoming Scourge Hooks, etc)
Looks like they ARE listening to the forums after all.
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This was the time to remove grabs on healthy survivors going for hook saves.
That alone would help alleviate so many problems with solo queue, and yet...nothing in these changes for solo queue.
Nurse made even stronger by the changes to decisive strike. Decisive stike as it was wasn't even enough time to get any distance from a nurse.
Some good changes, of course, but just truly a lack of foresight about what is truly wrong with the game, especially for solo survivors.
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Because reality came crashing down on them as kill rates have plummeted. They had no choice but to address gen speeds/regression/slowdown perks etc,...
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Yeah, I mean, the anti-tunneling changes are cool, but I can't see that they'll get much use when pretty much anyone can deny the unhook entirely.
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Thanks for the nurse/blight buffs, they really needed them right?
Sarcasm aside, I can accept the DS nerf regarding the end game collapse if you didn't need the other aspect of the perk, but actually buff it. The stun reduction is stupid, and the fact that it's still NOT useable for both health states is even dumber.
Everything i read so far other than that seems awesome, if we pretend nurse and blight in their current state and with their current add-ons don't exist. But they do, so i just hope this update doesn't showcase basekit changes applied to killers
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I don't believe so. I'm watching that as a solo survivor (all my friends have given up long ago) and it feels like I'll get tunneled less.
As for the Nurse, or any killer for that matter, if you take into account the stackable BT and speed boost, it summarizes into "don't get caught".
Oh, I've just realized DH is stronger against Nurse now.
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The issue is more that the strong campers can both instadown or rapidly mow down the rescuer while also drilling through the endurance effect. Bubba's multi-hit, Trickster's knives are my immediate concern.
I'd be happy to see rescue grabs completely done away with too.
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Last time they showed kill rates, they were all at about 50%. Maybe they went down a bit? But with all these buffs to killers, there needs to be more for survivors than just a laughable 5 second endurance and haste status effect.
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Basekit endurance off hook comes with a haste effect now, which I am assuming is at least additive with being hit. I'm pretty sure in the new scenario the hasted survivor will actually be able to outrun bubba chainsaw after the first one ticks their endurance off.
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You can always bait it out like most of the survivors are doing... it can be a hook exchange but you can't have everything at once.
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The increased hook phase duration is an absolute must. People already argue to "just do gens" when a killer camps, which is already not very viable if the killer runs Deadlock and NOED: With gen times being increased, camping gets buffed. That is beyond bad. It shouldn't get buffed, it shouldn't be kept the same, it needs to be nerfed. And nerfed into the ground.
Not to mention, they also finally need to remove the ability to grap survivors when they unhook a survivor, at low ranks camping is already way too problematic.
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Those numbers are heavily skewed by newer players, which is why Nurse is at the bottom and Cenobite is at the top.
I'm guessing the devs are working off a better list.
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Personally, I am liking the new changes so far but I think the anti-camping/tunneling mechanic can be problematic in the EGC where the camping can become strategic, specially if the downed survivor is near the exit gates. I am not saying I have a better solution, just sharing a thought.
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Baiting it out does not work. I have thousands of hours in the killer role. Grabbing a single survivor looking to come for a save is extremely easy. Several survivors need to come for the save, which is exactly what the killer wants as it means no gen work is being done.
Removing healthy grabs is the biggest change that would help solo queue, while also helping game health as it would reduce the power of hard camping.
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Even with all these killer buffs? I just can't imagine something like 12 seconds to be too long. Ideally you want to discourage killers from camping hooks and tunneling as much as possible, now that you are making fair play on the killers side much more viable.
Also, increasing gen times indirectly buffs camping, making the "just do gens" strategy even weaker. The hook timer of survivors needs to be increased drastically so that camping actually gets nerfed, and not buffed.
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5 seconds doesnt sound like much because it isnt much, camping and tunneling are going to increase because the increased gen times made the strategy stronger plus DS being nerfed its even going to make it even more appealing.
The cherry on the top is Monstrous Shrine making people die faster on Scourge hooks and the basement, so proxy camping is even better.
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Because killers are the ones that needed the buffs...
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This change will not outright prevent killers from tunneling, but it will discourage it.
* 100% of unhooked survivors will have a 5s endurance + 7% haste effect
* 4 perk slots per survivor team per game that do not need to be dedicated to BT and can be allocated to other perks
* Survivors may be running OTR or facing a survivor team with Real BT, which seems tasty - waiting out basekit BT for 5 seconds only to activate real BT or OTR and have wasted a lot of crucial time baiting.
Sure, some killers will still tunnel. It's a worse deal now than it was before, which is good news.
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Propnight has a similar thing, and people will and do still tunnel through it. It needs to be 10 seconds and also hook timer needs to be paused if killer is camping, just like in Propnight. If they truly wanted to get rid of camping and tunneling they'd do this as it makes it a waste of time.
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Actually no you don't, what you need is Off The Record.
And the 5s can't be waited out, because killers now won't know whether they need to wait 5s, 15s, or 80!s. Imagine waiting 20s only to still trigger Endurance, I'd definitely just give up the chase at that point, imagine if you spend 2 minutes tunneling someone off the hook with an unavoidable endurance AND a DS on top of that? What a waste of time, easier to go for the unhooker who isn't getting an automatic sprint boost.
It's painfully obviously most of you scrolled to BT/DS changes, had an aneurysm and rushed straight back hear to Karen.
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Killers can count to 5 and still tunnel. Bubba will be even easier to camp and tunnel. Since you increased gen repair times, you buffed tunneling.
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It is time to NERF the Nurse, if dev want their nwe fantasy perk and mechanic work well on next Big update.
Think about what happen play against a Top Nurse with no colldown Jolt and other perks like Thanatophobia or Sloppy Butcher . And u need 90S to do a gens or take 45S to selfcare.
Nurse is the biggest toxic design of this game.
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They killed DS which prevented tunneling and gave basekit BT which only lasts 5 seconds which isn't even enough to get out of the basement. If a nurse or blight wants you out of the game now, there's even less you can do against it.
The iron will nerf is pretty dumb too, I main spirit so finding survivors during phasing will no longer take any skill now. Expect to see alot more spirits
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That 3 second DS is laughable. 5 seconds wasn't enough to phase a nurse or blight from immediately being on your ass in seconds. They should make it able to activate twice if it's going to deactivate during end game.
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Good luck to make people play survivor after this changes.
And great job btw. Tunnelling def needed buff. Good buffs for camper Bubbas and Nurse.
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Wondering how these anti-tunnel and anti-camp changes going to help solo survivors. 5 seconds is enough time to make it to pallet or window? Well some survivors dont wanna take hit for teamate tho. So wondering how much it ll help me tho.
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Not only that, but let's pretend you'll always get hooked near a pallet within 5 seconds of reach and can "hide" to heal or whatever, with the nerf to Iron Will, which now is worse than No Mither, it's going to be useless against Nurse, Spirit, and maybe even Wraith who is fast as hell anyways.
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