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Nurse Special attack.
So I hear the argument alot that the nurses blink attack should be considered a special attack and looking at the other killers this makes sense to me. Blight's dash is a special attack even though its basically a lunge at the end of his rush and is not basic attack between rushes. Legions feral slash is a special attack and is his only option during his power prior to fatigue. Trickster can only throw knives during main event prior to fatigue. The only killer with a power that puts them into fatigue after that can basic attack is Oni however his lunge is still replaced. So I get all the reasons why nurses blink attacks should be special attacks.
I am wondering the reasons why they shouldn't be special attacks. Why they havent changed them. It seems to only make it so perks that benefit only from basic attacks will benefit her, but there are several killers that those perks are less effective on, Huntress, Trickster, Cannibal, Blight etc. It also would allow for a wider range of add-ons for her like with other killers, applying status effects or special benefits when hit with a special attack.
I am asking this because I really want to see the other side of this. There is no benefit to something being a special attack but there is to something being a basic attack, perk wise. So why does the agreed upon strongest killer get an attack that could be defined as a special attack as a basic?
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Nurse has no built in map pressure other than complete chase domination, at least that's what I think the premise behind nurse is supposed to be from what I know. If a nurse makes a mistake in a chase they lose the game pretty quickly
Post edited by BoxGhost on6 -
Nurses attacks should absolutely be a special attack. She can blink through walls and obstacles having an insta down on top of that is not fair in the slightest.
A killer that can phase through walls should not have an instant down
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Except they are not. Several are 4.4 (Huntress, Trickster, Spirit, Hag) and Tier 1 Myers is 4.2. I get that she is still slower but she still gains bloodlust and she has a normal speed lunge. In addition the nurse can be a 4.6 killer with her green add on.
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Nurse moves at 92% of survivor movement speed. She very rarely can chase down a survivor to get a hit without blinking.
I think her first blink attack should count as a basic attack and her second (and third) blink attacks should count as special attacks.
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The first one is a basic attack but the second one is a special attack
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So I guess I am curious is the only reason that her blink attacks are not considered special attacks her base speed.
Because shes slower but that doesnt disable any of her basic attack features. She even has a further lunge than tier 1 myers despite her speed. I get that shes slower, but she's attacking in the middle of her power which makes her faster than any other killer and on any other killer is a special attack.
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Making the attack after second blink be special is pretty much the same as making both be special. A horrible idea, because Nurse will never ever land a non-blink attack/one blink attack basekit unless the survivor misplays or eventually gets cornered. Removing perk diversity is a bad idea. Furthermore, every Exposed source has its own counterplay built into it even regardless of Nurse.
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As somebody said.. nurse is quite literally the ONLY killer slower than survivors. If you made her blinks special attacks, you would take away every single perk that requires basic attacks from her. If her blinks are made special attacks, then her speed needs to be increased. And I GUARANTEE survivors will ######### even more about a nurse that blinks AND can catch them without needing their power.
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Really? I hit survivors all the time with single blinks as Nurse, especially at close range. Perhaps you have a skill issue?
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Of course, what do you do against Nurse if she has 110-115 speed? Can you tell me?
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Nurse is just too powerful with Exposed perk, especially on smaller map. Infectious Frights + Starstruck + Agitation= 44m aura of 1 hit survivor around you and Infectious gives you their general location too. She cover 100% of The Game, 100% of Midwitch, 70% of Dead Dawg Saloon, 66% of Léry. Keeping her basic attack regular attack just mean all Exposed perk has to be trash for her to be balance otherwise she can just end games so fast.
IMO the only solution for making Exposed perk just viable, not necessarily op/meta but just viable is to nerf her otherwise she become a problem for the game.
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Yes, and I kill survivors with zero gen regression addonless Trapper all the time too, especially when they misplay and walk into me or put themselves into a corner. Beating bad players means nothing.
Or... the problem is that certain maps are too small (among other problems their design has). Also your number assumes she's standing in the center, which is not always applicable. If they're on the edge of the map, most of the area of effect will be outside of the map entirely. Also, you are just blatantly objectively wrong. Make Your Choice is insanely good. Devour Hope is extremely good. Haunted Ground is solid.
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I'll explain some reasons
1) Other killers are faster than survs. Nurse is not. She's entirely reliant on her blinks to land hits. Without them, she functionally has no basic attack. A huntress can choose to melee hatchet or M1. Nurse needs to blink.
2) Her attacks are deliberately designed to emulate a basic attack as closely as possible. If anything, her attacks are WEAKER than a basic attack due to being slower, thus having a shorter range.
3) She's a very old killer, predating the basic-special attack distinction. Changing it now causes "issues" from what I've been told. An example is the many inconsistencies it would cause. For one, Nurse grabs like every other killer after a blink (this also being tied to an achievement), and is thus subject to the M1-grab cancel. Changing it and now we have an exception in the form of a cancel now being an M2, which is something you don't want. That's not to mention any odd perk interactions that are bound to occur.
4) It reopens an old can of worms. "What is/isn't a basic attack?" Nurse's attack is more or less the exact same as a basic attack. If you change her, what about Slinger who flat-out Deep Wounds you? What about Myers who has an extended lunge duration? Hag who teleports? There are a lot of questions it would raise.
5) What does it solve? Really? Okay, no more exposed Nurse... so? Nurse's issue run down to the nature of her power. You could make her attacks Special, delete Range, AND blind her to Auras, and she would STILL be the best killer in the game. It solves nothing.
6) What are you expecting her to run? Okay, no more M1 perks. She can't use Chase perks. That leaves Aura-reading and slowdown. Aura reading on Nurse is more or less a guaranteed hit, so you're effectively a one-shot anyway. Blind her to Auras? Now she's just stacking slowdown. Nurse is miserable because of the lack of choices, and survs are miserable because slowdown is annoying. Damned if you, damned if you don't.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. The way that guy talks about nurse is like he thinks nurse needs buffs.
Too bad skill issues make so many people not understand balance.
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It's not impossible to hit good survivors with just 1 blink especially at short range. They can make it more difficult but they can't make it impossible.
Your analogy comparing the Nurse landing hits with a single blink to the weakest killer in the game naked against noobs is just melodramatic hyperbole. I expected better from you.
Honestly I would expect the good Nurse mains to actually welcome the challenge of trying to use Starstruck when it only counts on the first blink, but I guess there are a lot of Nurses that just want to keep their easy mode.
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BHVRs official reason is "Because then she doesn't really have a normal hit."
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Even if she stand in a corner of The Game she still cover more than 60% of it and yeah she might lose 1/3 of the radius because it land outside the map (like for every killer) the thing is she can catch those survivor in a manner of seconds unlike other killer. Point is she abuse this perk much more than other killer due to her power and is broken on some maps.
Dragon's Grip is poopoo, nobody ever in this history of DBD think it ever was good.
Make your Choice is a good perk. Never really was Meta but always a viable one depending on the killer & playstyle.
Hex: Devour Hope ; well like every hex perks it can be deactivated because you use it. Most often then not you'll get 1-2 down then you lose it, that being said if survivor are very unlucky it will have a god-like spawn in Lery and survivor will never find it leaving you for snowball, but that happen about as often as it get destroy before being used.
Hex: Haunted Ground. This perk's activation is so random and survivor will just hide the entire 60s. It's too unreliable and let's be honest here, at best you'll get 1 down.
Hex: Noed ; only usefull if you make it up to endgame with 4 survivor but then they have an easy time breaking it. If there's like 2 survivor making it to end game, you don't even need it to get a third kill. Just too situational to be called good IMO.
Iron Maiden, who tf use this perk for exposing survivor? Legit the only killer I've seen using this are Huntress and Trickster.
Rancor tell the obsession the killer has it, the obsession needs to be still alive in endgame & the obsession can play smart end game too. Again just too many variables there.
Starstruck is good, but too good in the hands on nurse. Nurse player will juste destroy the survivor. Vs other killer people do not need to wait the full 30s to make their moves but vs a Nurse she can come back at you in like 5s.
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To which the reply might be "and...? 🤷♂️" Why does every killer need to have the ability to make a normal hit?
Sure, it would mean Nurse loses access to certain perks that requires Basic Attack hits, but so what? There's only 12 perks this would impact (Jolt, Sloppy Butcher, Unrelenting, Franklin's Demise, Save the Best for Last, and the Exposed perks NOED, Dragon's Grip, Hex Devour Hope, Iron Maiden, Make Your Choice, Rancor, and Starstruck), that still leaves about 90 other perks to choose from. It's not like Nurse would have a paucity of perk choices.
Honestly I haven't really seen a great argument against the idea.
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If her blink attacks become special attacks, can we revert the Awakened Awareness nerf?
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Terrible argument for the Nurse considering it doesn't mean anything for her strength. I just hope this isint the Dev's mindset, not craping on you.
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Nurse enjoyers living in some kind of fantasy world where Nurse is a perfectly balanced killer beceause she isn't 4.6 so it's totally fair for her to teleport through all buildings floors with double range right...
I went against 3 Agitation + Starstruck Nurses on Midwich yesterday my bad skill issue I should just hide and waste 30 seconds not doing gens while my teammates are dying on hooks.
really such a skill issue !
Nurse is the only broken killer in the game rn and always was,talking about public matches don't bring comp matches where there are rules and people dont bring the strongest stuff to make the other side miserable comp games are a joke if we're talking about balance.
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Being in short range in the first place is a misplay, or that you eventually got cornered after a chase. In both cases, the survivor got themselves in that situation.
Gideon is god awful design for multiple reasons including being way too small.
Because Exposed isn’t problematic in the first place.
You: "Well this extremely poorly designed map showcases an example of poor design so actually the problem is the killer."
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You can't logically argue with someone who's mad they just lost to a Nurse. What toasts me is whenever survivor mains get the nerfs they want within a week they shamelessly move to something else, and the whole echo chamber cycle begins anew.
It's been YEARS of this.
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96.25% actually
92% is everones carry speed
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I can’t… but that’s the POINT. She needs to be slower because of her power. It’s one way or the other. You can’t restrict ONE killer from using a handful of perks. That’s just not right.
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ROFL Literally both side are like this and regardless of that the game has some issues that need to adress. By your logic we can't do anything and/or can start with problematic killer simply because you happen to be a killer main. God damn it, I use to follow the StarCraft 2 scene, even new/bronze player had better arguments that you guys do ffs.
Last sentence also apply to you. So what is Nurse wouldn't be able to use M1 perks? IMO I'd buff some into activating for both M1 and special attack like Jolt because they deserve to be activated on both type of attack.
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Except she's the only one can go through walls. And thats just not right either for other killers?
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But there is no problem with Nurse using Exposed. Map design issues are not Nurse issues.
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"You can’t restrict ONE killer from using a handful of perks." Legit all killer who's ability is to kill and/or move on the map without any major downside can't use M1 ability with their power.
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oh nice an other kid that just put words into my mouth thinking I'm a survivor main and can't think for myself... Instead of looking like that stupid kid who has nothing to say in a conversation why don't you stop right there and/or find something USEFULL to add?
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No I don't think the perk combo I mentionned way above is only an issue on small map. Even on the biggest maps she can traverse them very fast and comeback to kill an exposed survivor. If she use Make Your Choice she can blink twice to get 32m away from hooks then as soon as the unhook happen she can come back in a matter of seconds and unless you're poopoo with her you will down that person because you will still have 50+s.
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Arguments: An argument is a statement or group of statements called premises intended to determine the degree of truth or acceptability of another statement called conclusion.
You use what devs have supposedly said to argue why nurse should stay like this. It fall into the appeal to authority fallacy.
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MYC has a cool-down. If she’s immediately leaving hook to get out of the needed range, just have an injured person go unhook. Also mindgaming is how you stay up against Nurse regardless. Any moderately sized map is more than enough room to stay out of Starstruck range most of the time.
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Awww
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You're not wrong but you don't always have an injured survivor nearby hook and I'd argument my point it not really that she will down you on her way back but that unlike other killer she will be able to start chasing you almost instantly which is huge.
Look at Dragon's Grip, does that not pose an issue? As the survivor touch the gen they will be screaming & revealing thier location for 4 second and be exposed for 60. Don't you find it an issue that unlike every other killer beside maybe Spirit she'll be able to start chasing almost instantly? BTW don't look at the cooldown, that's an other issue that need to be fix... IMO right now it's way too long.
BTW I used to think Spirit was too strong too but I was completely against the way they nerf her. Personally I would have removed her Husk thus telling survivor when she phase to remove the stupid 50/50 on 75% of the loops in the game alongside M1 nerf so she can't use insta down alongside her very strong mobility.
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pretty sure all of oni's attacks during blood fury are considered special attacks, even the one that replaces the standard m1
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Dragon’s Grip is basically garbage unless it’s paired with specific perks because it only lasts 30s, can be tapped by someone injured who can also immediately hide after, and has a massive 80s cooldown.
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she can go through walls, because that’s her power.. I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. 😂
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Correct.
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I know it's garbage in it's current state, I even said so. Regardless if it was to be made viable for other killer it would be too strong on Nurse because she could come back to the survivor in a matter of second. SMH you guys are 1 dimentional and can't read more than 1 sentence. I could state 210623478963452789234652347890634589234623478293478345676234283457989634 buff to killer but if I would want 1 killer nerf you guys would be: SuRvIvOr SiDeD
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It can be buffed without breaking it. 60s CD if the Exposed is activated in the 30s window, 40s if it isn’t. Exposed duration is 30s. Nurse coming back doesn’t matter because the survivor can mindgame to not go down.
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That still doesn't change the fact that Nurse can just blink as she hear the survivor and she will be chasing a guy with 30s of exposed in a matter of seconds.
In MYC's case because there is a distance requirement survivor can counter it by unhooking before the killer reach 32m distance and/or play stealt and against most killer they would have a good 10s before the killer comes back which is not the case with Nurse.
In both case when the perk activate the killer know, which ain't an issue in and of itself but the fact that Nurse can come back in mere seconds, unlike other killer, is a freaking huge advantage and synergy she has with those perks. Being able to start the chase almost as the survivor get Exposed is what I consider too strong, survivor lose out on having 10s or so to hide.
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Which is literally what mindgaming is for.
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Any killer or survivor who says that Nurse can hit a survivor with one blink, that survivor has to HEAVILY misplay for that to happen or be VERY easily readable or in a very tough spot.
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Point stand, Nurse come back in mere seconds unlike other killer which is an advantage, a synergy that no other killer beside Spirit has and you have nothing to say against that.
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Why is the perspective that "Nurse does X too well" instead of "other killers suck too much to get decent value"?
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The devs thought Pig's dash deserved a nerf by making it a special attack instead of a normal attack before making her undetectable with it. See how their view of balance is freaking bad and how inconsistant they are?
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Anyone who says the Nurse can't get a hit with one blink is probably just bad at Nurse.
If a survivor ever makes the HEAVY misplay of ever dropping a pallet or vaulting a pallet or window the Nurse has an easy opportunity to land a 1 blink hit.
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Yes no duh a Nurse can get a hit with one blink if the survivor is stupid or misplays or corners themselves after a chase.
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That happens 1/20 chases where a survivor is really really cornered, one blinks never happen, I could upload you 30 games I played yesterday, as nurse and you could check every chase and they never EVER involve pallets or windows unless they have lithe. I have been playing nurse since the day of her release bro!
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