The map design is the worst part
I am not talking about the artists, I wish for the day that almost all maps get reworked. Not aesthetically, I mean balance wise. For example Garden of Joy has around 3 god windows and a god pallet, and multiple pallets clumped together. Another example is Haddonfield (which I know the old one was worse), which also has multiple god windows and almost all pallets are extremely safe. And don't even get me started on Eyrie of Crows
You also have unbalanced maps for survivor such as shelter woods, midwitch and... Well I think that is really it for survivor, though RNG can really f over a team.
I have noticed that the amount of enjoyment I get out of a match depends on what map I get and that is a terrible thing.
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I understand that rng is kinda needed and will always mess with map design but things like the garden of joy main building are just inexcusable. It feels like it was designed for 2017 dbd
realm beyond looks cool but honestly made the maps worse overall
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They cluster tiles to shelter survivors that struggle with chaining even the easiest loops.
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It sucks because every time I get horrid map generation is just makes me wish that I had been playing nurse instead that game. The maps really shouldn't be so bad that you only feel good about playing on them if you can literally just teleport through all the ######### obstacles they put in your way. For example, I was playing a game of wraith the other day and loaded in on suffocation pit. The middle of the map is always particularly atrocious, but on this game there were THREE TL wall tiles in a horizontal line breaking the map in half, with a long wall on the end. I had bamboozle and bloodlust 3, and still had to chase them long enough to block five of the SEVEN windows with the entity blocker before I could get a hit in and hook the person, because bamboozle wouldn't even last long enough for me to push them past the other 2 TL tiles if I did block one of the windows.
Sure, maybe the right thing to do would be leave the person and go surprise someone in an less strong area. (There was maybe one place on that entire map that it could've worked on) but at this point I was already feeling masochistic and wanting to see how deep the rabbit hole went. Needless to say, it was a game that just made me feel bad. The maps need to be better, but the procedural map generation makes a huge difference too. I've played on shelter woods where almost every tile has a pallet, barring the tree in the middle, and I've played on shelter woods when there's a handful of pallets scattered throughout the entire map.
Losing because a map sucks is just not fun. Throw map offerings in the mix and it's even worse. It's one little thorn in my side that's actually killing my enjoyment of the game right now.
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I agree that Garden of Joy’s main building needs a pass to tweak some things in it (especially how dark it is, it’s way too dark in places!)
I actually don’t mind the new Haddenfield, it’s mostly ok at least in my own games. 🤷♂️
Eyrie is basically fine, it’s on par with Ormond, they’re both median size maps with a similarly strong central building. Not my favorite maps as killer but I win matches on them so not totally broken either.
I definitely like the new RPD maps compared to the old one. They got rid of all those annoying dead end rooms and the maps are a bit smaller so actually I do pretty well on these new RPDs. (I don’t even remember losing on them yet.)
It would be interesting though to see a chart similar to the ones the devs did for perks in June where they graphed out kill rates by map by MMR. So each line would be a map, the x-axis would be MMR, the y-axis is kill rate, and the thickness of the line is the number of matches at that point.
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So it's the algorithm that is the issue then
If BHVR does adjust things for the algorithm and it works then good for them... But size of the Maps will also come into question
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They do not have a steady foundation for balancing, and its part of why they've been so awful with maps. They need to make maps that bad survivors are going to be able to last for more than 2 seconds in a chase, while good survivors last less than 5 minutes. Bad killers to get downs in less than 5 minutes, while good killers take more than 2 seconds. High tier killers to have a less stark advantage over low tier ones.
There is too much chaos in this game to balance, but unfortunately they are unable to focus on the most important aspect of that, just like in the other elements of the game: They're unable to balance for the bad without giving a massive advantage to the good.
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Pretty much this. I'm thankful I don't have a job as difficult as balancing Dead by Daylight.
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For sure. And it's not an original or revolutionary take, but map design is the single biggest roadblock to even an approximation of game balance.
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ok but not all of the windows on garden of joy are actually god windows unless you have balanced landing. only the bottom floor dining room one is
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THIS
EXPLAIN THIS?
watch closely at what I’m talking about
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Nah the two open windows chain together for several vaults vs most killers in this game.
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I guess I wouldn't know because I play pyramid head who can use his power even at the dining room window
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We still have shelter woods and rotten fields too. So boring yet they haven't bothered to remake them/add something to them. Graveyard, church for MM estate and a funfair or graveyard for Coldwind.
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Old Haddonfield wasn't as bad as new Haddonfield.
Once they kept the god window by the basement closed I actually grew to like that map. Especially when I played Trapper.
Seriously why did they have to make the street so damn wide?
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Thats not map design that’s rng. The game does that whenever there’s a lack of pallets that spawn in the map.
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Still have yet to see those mythical maps that don't favor the survivors.
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Thats part of the design. Their procedural generation algorithms regularly go maverick and make stuff like pallets way too close, god loops aligned into each other, hooks being "wtihin distance" but not accounting for the necessary routing to reach them, etc. Those are all map design problems because they cause malfunctions in their own failsafe logic.
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SAME people say that maps like coal tower and ironworks can favour killers sometimes yet I've never seen an ironworks be killer favoured and only once have i seen coal tower be actively killer favoured.
I don't get why people say shelter is killer favoured when it's one of the largest maps in the game and splitting gens on that map requires zero brain power.
Maybe hag/nurse midwich.
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It's more than just the algorithm tbh. There are a ton of structures that are guaranteed to be insanely strong. House of pain, Eyrie main building, Dead dogs saloon, asylum main building, RPD's main room, The game's cctv room. All those are guaranteed and most on already strong maps
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I actually like midwich as a survivor as long as it's not a starstruck floods of rage nurse I'm against
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Hag with Rusty Shackles, Nurse with recharge add-ons. Otherwise, not even.
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So you think someone at BHVR made those?
I doubt it... there are some things that the algorithm do to main structure... plus if they do something to the algorithm then those structures will change
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Some of them have a small element of rng to them like in the house of pain has rng on the window and destructible wall placement but yes someone at bhvr did make the maps, not sure if that's what you meant to say. Those maps weren't made in a vacuum.
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But they did design them in a vacuum... they did hand design some of what's in the map but not where they are placed (at least I hope not)
Some maps have to much RNG and other have to little RNG (they need to come up with the middle)
Like they designed the long walls, LT walls, Junk loops (if you know what I mean)... but not where they are placed
The rest is up to the algorithm to RNG it up
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They did design them to spawn in certain places wth are you talking about? The RNG is just a mix-and-match of tile spots with some windows being open or not. The algorithm determines the weight of each tile and then determines which tiles go where. Also those arent what im talking about. The algorithm for that stuff is messed up to I don't disagree with you on that however, I was pointing out that there are a lot of permanent structures on certain maps that also need to be looked at
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There are quite some killer sided maps. Ofc midwitch and shelter woods. But I would 100% add rotten fields (hello huge dead zones and possibly worthless loops that are unusable after 1 pallet - creating deadzones next to deadzones), both RPDs (there are 0 good loops in new version - only very unsafe loops and pallets - but a few compared to the game that also contains only pallets + guaranteed 3gen at main), Azarov with fewer number of resources (but this part is still OK) but insufferable 3gen for killer on 1 side.
Then there are maps that are really tough but at least playable. Wrecker's yard with it's tiny size and basement never out of question (you take grasp+agi trapper and the game is GG if you catch one), wretched shop with it's low density of resources (and again devs removed some pallets - now you can get exactly 0 pallets around whole main), pale rose and lery's if killer takes hexes (namely dhope), haddonfield with it's huge open middle that you just can't exclude especially concerning 3gen around main (so the god windows in the buildings do nothing - killer can ignore those - survivors can't ignore 3gen in the open).
The rest of the maps are OK even if I don't really like yamaokas (both), torment creek (way too much visibility for killer and easy to 3gen if killer decides).
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Totally agree, maps like cowshed and ormond and crows just have too much to work with and some maps like mother's dwelling are simply too big. Taking 40 seconds to traverse a map without mobility is simply just unfair
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