Nice unbalanced game that favor survivors

Wow, that's a lot.

Basekit BT triggers on anyone getting off the hook by any means to make facecamping less effective. You got unlucky you hooked a guy with active deliverance next to an open gate... no need to kill the game because of it.

Why is this absurd?

Every single competitive multiplayer game gets balanced around the top players. Not the bottom ones.

According to the official stats, SC is the most used survivor perk. Do you really want to balance the game around players self caring in the corner of the map?

Yeah 99% of dbd players just take self care in corner... Game should be balanced around most players if you balance around the very best survivor teams only having chance winning it ruins the game for everyone else.

The point you're not considering is that games are balanced around all players; not just one extreme or the other if they want to succeed. With a very few exceptions balancing a game around a small group of players on either side kills player retention.

But why? You all state that it would make the game less appealing for new players. But you don´t explain why.

Balancing around top players makes sense, because even a potatoe player will eventually get better. While good players can´t beat the balancing thats set up around bad players.

Imagine for a second, that the 15% higher escape rate of SWF would instead be a 15% higher kill rate of a killer. So instead of 60% of the top killer, he´d have a 75% kill rate. There would be a massive outcry of the community. Demanding (rightfully) the immediate nerf of said killer. But for SWF thats ok. Sounds weird, doesn´t it?

I'd look at VHS for an example. There's no doubt that the top skilled Monster players has a good chance to beat the top skilled Teen player teams. However, the skill floor for Monster is higher than the skill floor for Teen so, while in theory, everyone could improve to that point people weren't willing to spend dozens of games getting losses so they could stand a chance. They just stopped playing. I brought it up during beta as I pointed out, in my first 20 games played concurrently at each side, I had six times as many wins on Teen as I had on Monster and a new player isn't going to stick around for 40 to 50 games to win 5 of them (as an example with Monster).

It can be different in a symmetrical game as characters will have similar characteristics and might just have minor variances or even the same abilities reskinned (eg. The Old Republic or WoW pvp). However, by definition, an asymmetrical game has to have wildly varying characteristics as it's multiple people versus a smaller number of people. The more variation in abilities from one player the less individual success is determined by each player's abilities and level of experience (eg. camping and tunneling is definitely counterable but the skill floor for countering tunneling and camping is higher than the skill floor to do it so newbie Killers crush newbie survivors with it but then struggle in higher MMRs since they haven't developed chase skills or timing as to when to tunnel and camp since they just crushed newbies previously).

In practicality, since people are playing games to have fun they won't nor should they play if they can't have fun because a skill floor or game mechanic hinders their success to the point they don't have fun on the chance they might have fun later. A very few people will continue but most will just stop playing and that would kill the player base. Unless the game can be popular enough and competitive enough that it can become a spectator sport balancing around the top would leave the game with a tiny playerbase and possibly not even enough money to run the servers in the long run. To succeed as a game where you want participation you have to consider all skill levels.

Hens is top 0,001% players yeah let's balance around that. There are many more nurse and blight players having 100 wins a row than those kind of survivors.

Ok let me explain why. At lower mmrs killers absolutely rinse survivors. A new player trying to play solo q survivor is unlikely to survive many games at all. Hell as a competent player my solo q survival rate is dirt poor. The balancing requires survivors to make advanced plays and co ordinated tactics to have a chance of escaping against even a fairly basic killer player. Unless you hide all game and play for hatch.

My first few games as killer were absolute slaughter fests. I downloaded the game, loaded up demogorgon and proceeded to 4k with it. Second game Loaded up trapper, 3k because I forcibly slugged a player to death and allowed one to escape because i thought a bleed out would finish my daily ritual that required me to kill a survivor by my own hand. And the 4ks just kept rolling in.

It took about a week of whitewash games like this for me to come up against a decent team of survivors who actually knew how to play the game effectively. And they effectively prevented me doing anything, proper bully squad. A player with about 20 hours of playtime ended up playing against a squad with an average of 720 hours playtime.

My early survivor games on the other hand were the opposite end pf the spectrum. I died in perhaps 85% of the games I played for my first 100 hours. Not a pleasant experience. And I hit my gaming hard, I'd been devouring the dbd wiki and watching streams to learn the mechanics.

The balance from my perspective playing surv and killer pretty evenly, is that if survs know exactly what to do, they will put up a good fight. But one weak member on a team or one DC and the game quickly falls apart for them. And if the killer plays sweaty tactics like tunneling and face camping they can remove a surv from the eqation and mess up the game for survs pretty quick.

I currently have 12 days play time. And in the majority of my killer matches I absolutely destroy. It's got to the point where i make a point of letting last survivor go because constant 4ks just get boring. And it's not seal clubbing like my first week. Im up against survivors with almosy 10 times the play time i have and I'm still killing them with a little effort. If i properly sweat like when I'm grinding pips and run an effective killer with sweaty add ons and a favourable map offering, i practically never lose.

I have to deliberately run weaker killers and perks just for fun. More enjoyable challenging games. Killers individually can decide tonplaybtactics that have no effective counter. Look at killer streamers with 30+ game winstreaks like Dr.eggman. Anyone who says this game is survivor sided either has wicked high mmr and struggles or is god awful at playing killer and wants to blame it on game balance.

you would be very upset if you found out about a tournament where there were no rules, killers and surviovrs could bring what ever they wanted . I think the only thing that was pre-determined was the map

Out of all the games, the average kill rate was 2.16

Not everyone was playing Blight or Nurse either, at the time Artist was the most recent killer and she made an appearance. The result was a 4k. Keep in mind this was before the changes to Dead Hard, increased gen times, general killer buffs, etc.

The game is a lot more balanced than you think. Is it perfectly balanced? Of course not, but its definitely a lot closer than people realize

I'm glad I'm regarded as such. Many of my discussions were inspired by rage-inducing, silly interactions that happened in the game, but that's why I've stopped making more of them, because they're never going to be seen as more than that.

Shout-out to Lord Tony. I literally follow his streams still. He's gotten better, but you can expect salt pretty much every time you tune in. I like to drop a "SWF!" because he used to assume every lobby was a SWF.

See my post above. A proper Bot mode, which lets the players adjust everything would greatly help new players. A killer could learn how to play a new killer, use his power, test the addons, etc. In a bot mode mode where the survivor bots are as skilled/unskilled as he wants them to be.

Same for survivors. Decide what killer bot they want to face, with the full loadout and how the ai performs. While also having the possibility to play with friends and bots against the bot killer.

This would give a better start for new players. Since they could learn the game in a save environment.

Nurse and Blight would definitely struggle, and most likely lose. Even the best killers in the game still need strong perks and add-ons to compete with a high level SWF like you mentioned.

That's my point... so in other words it's player choice

In terms of BHVR's MMR they wouldn't have that much difficulty getting one Kill

Again it comes down to player choice... Take what I said and flip it... how much difficulty would Pig have if the build suited her playstyle VS. an unorganized team (solo's)

But getting 4K's would be harder... unless that player knows what they are doing and the other side didn't know how to stop it

Sorry about that... I can't process words like I used to (stroke)

Yh idk why so many people dislike VC. "Ohhh noo people will be toxic" like dude have you SEEN endgame chat? People are going to be toxic. It's a fact of life on the internet and it's easy to mute people. But denying VC denies the loads of helpful players for being able to do anything for new players.

Yes, vc is the one thing that separates solos from SWF and it would be the easiest solution to finally balance SWF without punishing them for playing with friends. Buuuut here we are.

SWF makes a big difference, I don't know if you know. High MMR killers can struggle with solos if they're efficient enough. SWF is like most of what they face though, and it's almost never easy, as most would have you believe. Some killer players like me try to make killers like Pig and Demogorgon work at high MMR; we don't get very far. Even with Blight, being on console mind you, struggling vs even average players is the norm. You are not required to be good at gens AND chase to beat good killers; just one will do, assuming your teammates are okay.

We might as well stop using kill streaks and escape streaks as meaningful evidence. They're the exception to the rule, and good/bad players being thrown into the mix is what makes or break them.

At this point I think the devs could buff killers so their success rate is at 75-80% and there would still be a thread asking for 120 second gens and a buff for killers. Game is easier than it has ever been for killers. Maybe if you didn't murder so many casuals and inflate your MMR you wouldn't face squads that can only make it out if they sweat like the killers they face. It is sweaty at the top, take a towel.

No.