Why do people think an FOV slider for killers would be unfair?

The thing is, stealth should be a survivor strategie in this game. There are killers and perks that can handle stealth easily, but for others, its a good counter, and should be a thing.

In basic design, stealth was inbuild in this game, but it got nerfed more and more because for a lot of players, the game just resolves around one aspect of the game, chases. However, not for all of us.

So i am not really opposed to a basekit shadowborn, but noone ever answered me what they would offer in return to keep stealth play alive.

Optical things like the fov, dark corners in maps and stuff are made to balance and give survivors options beside chasing. But people use brightness filters, so playing with a killers fov is one of the last things left to juke a killer in a chase.

Stretched Res didn't actually help the killer at all. It only gave one killer a tiny advantage, Nurse could still see the survivors feet when she was staring at the ground during her fatigue.

This is because of the difference between first and third person view.

Shadowborn doesn't actually make it any harder to be stealthy as a survivor, you still need to break line of sight whatever you do, because killers can just turn around, and they can turn around quicker than you can move out of the way.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen anyone run Shadowborn for a gameplay advantage. It's always for comfort, or quality of life. Does that warrant using up a perk slot?

There is one scenario in which Shadowborn does help the killers in terms of stealth, and frankly it's one I think should be 'basekit' anyway. It's when survivors hide directly in front of you, crouching on your toes, and you can't see them.

It's an absurd form of "stealth play" and should go the same way as Flashlight saves, via enabling a higher default FoV.

BT is a game health issue because it addresses a hard design flaw. Objectively it makes sense to go for someone with half the health, and far closer to death (hook states), so there needs to be a buffer to prevent abuse. If you are hard tunneled off of hook you typically don't have a chance to have fun playing the match, making the game bleed players as seen on the steam charts. Anecdotally, I have a friend new to the game and surprise surprise, the Killer turbo-tunnels him like the Killer is playing for money, and as a result he is losing interest in learning to play the game. Facecamping is another hard design flaw that has no basekit fix yet either, as you can more or less guarantee a minimum of a 2k facecamping when done 'right'. Also it is important to keep in mind, that before that patch, you could have 0-3 anti-tunnel mechanisms (3 if you count Dead Hard used for anti-tunnel), and now we have a minimum and maximum of 1. DS might as well be hard deleted, and you can only have 1 endurance effect per recovery. Since they moved all anti-tunnel effects into endurance, combined with being unable to stack endurance, we are left with a horrendous state of the game in the extremes of bad matches. It is only because those games are rarer for some, that I believe they haven't been addressed.

Basekit Shadowborn is more of an accessibility vs inherent difficulty/designed aspect. If we design a game around vision, we can't expect blind people to participate at all, no matter how much we want it to be 'accessible'. Whilst most games are designed with sight in mind, DBD is also designed with a limited FOV in mind for Killer, in order to emulate the Predator/Prey relationship. The intended difficulty is tied to the limited FOV, and as such, it may be harder to determine which level should be accessible. As previously mentioned in the thread, we don't allow chase music to be turned down for Hard of Hearing players, and similarly we don't allow FOV for motion sickness players. Sound is something shared by both sides, so I would argue that should be higher on the 'accessibility' list.

They added partial Brutal Strength and STBFL (and reverse Overcome) to raise kill rates. Game health could be argued here since 60% is the target kill rate. If the kill rate is too high, more Survivors won't play. If the kill rate is too low, more Killers won't play.

Finally, the 'accessibility' fixes have largely been mixed to bad, and by that I mean usually 1 good thing with 2-5 bad things. They didn't want Spine Chill as a replacement for hearing, and then was buffed against Stealth Killers, who it wasn't supposed to nerf, and the change was intended to help instead. Flashlights didn't have an auditory and visual slowdown without also changing functionality, so they got nerfed out of being able to readjust a save. Readjusting a save arguably taking more skill than getting the save in the first place, since you need to both recognize when to release, and for how long. So in each case of these 'accessibility' changes, we are losing more than we stand to gain. I would argue the steps backwards are far more damaging than the 'fixes'. Note that I am not saying they shouldn't be worked on, just different execution. For Spine Chill, I would simply have it not work against undetectable Killers (or only work when you are within range of their sound cues, eg. Ghostie's cape flapping, or Myers' breathing). For Flashlights, I would have the visuals and sound of the current Flashlight, with the mechanical functionality of the old. That way it wouldn't mess with people who have the conditions affected, but still allows the same mechanics such as readjusting a save or changing direction during movement.

I've made multiple attempts at actually informing people about how FoV works, but they will always come up with whatever misconception they feel like suits their argument. Its not worth the effort to talk to anyone but the devs directly about, honestly.

But I'm not because looping was and unintentional mechanic but players preferred the run and chase gameplay over hide and seek so the game was changed and then it became an intendedmechanic. The game itself was never intended to be played the way it is now. If anything the pov is a relic from a time when the game was intended for survivors to be more stealthy. Increasing the fov wouldn't completely destroy stealth either its not like the killer I'd magically going to be able to see over walls or behind stuff.

During the last wave of motion sickness discussions you guys convinced me and I now support your claim. Also, contrasting Shadowborn with Borrowed Time seems weird, as how weak Shadowborn is in comparison, even though this kinda comparisons shouldn't be made, but still, this shows that it should actually be a non-issue and Shadowborn should probably give another buff. Better nightvision would be thematic, but I guess survivors love being undetectable in the Garden of Joy main building, so this would be a hard sell. :P

I'd prefer if it was simply a FOV increase because I've had my fill of default settings being just plain bad and inferior from playing a lot of TF2, where standard fov values (both general fov and how much of your screen your gun takes up) are set at very uh, outdated levels. Yes, you just have to open the options menu, but the amount of new players that never figure it out... But sure, do add a FOV slider but please make sure to advertise it, maybe even show it on first game launch with a picture you can see at different FOV levels so people are 100% aware that it's an option.

For me it's all about being able to see more and how some actually feel physically uncomfortable playing with low fov though. 360s, fov tech and all of that are just some of the MANY "knowledge checks" in the game that come from everything from perks to base mechanics. Should stuff like performance and controls (especially on console) be improved? Of course, that's very important and would help a lot when it comes to dealing with stuff like that.

It would still be a thing. The extra 15 degrees (7.5 either side) from Shadowborn is not a game changer, otherwise killers would actually use it as such. As it stands Shadowborn is only used to alleviate motion sickness from playing with binoculars strapped to your eyeballs, or to prevent the niche scenario of a survivor 'hiding' on your toes, which shouldn't be a thing anyway.

You know how we're always talking about giving solo survivor QoL info and then buffing killers in turn for bringing solo closer to SWF levels? This would be an ideal way of doing that. It wouldn't negate any survivor playstyles other than hiding on the killers toes, and would more or less just be a QoL enhancement for killers.

yes it would negate, because a lot of times you have to rely on turning a corner and ducking down and the killer not seeing you at once. That is a thing, even if you claim it shouldn´t be a thing. Do you have any arguments why not?

Also, any sources to back up the claim people only use shadowborn for mothin sickness and never for advantage? I mean we had people claim in this forum they only used streched res for astetics, not for advantage.

Technically stretched res did have advantages for killer, but only very specific cases and only due to its change to the vertical and not horizontal view. Nurses could use it to be able to see a bit better while fatigued due to it having more viewing potential at the top of the screen, same with any other camera locks that force the camera downward like billy's chainsaw. Nowhere near the same thing, but it was more than nothing.

That said, don't bother with the arguments. People thinking that higher FoV means no stealth don't even understand how FoV works, its relation to human FoV (roughly 135 degrees when including peripheral,) the physiology of why FoV issues cause motion sickness, or even simple concepts like not every player uses the same display size/distance. They're ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst. You can explain it all day but if they disagree they'll be right back in the next topic spewing the same misinformation.