Why do people think an FOV slider for killers would be unfair?

A simple fact that is never taken into account when this discussion comes up.

considering stretched res literally didnt do anything u couldn't do with the camera before i dont see the problem.

Most people don't want win/win with this game, they only want win for them lose for their opponent. The game has been focused around advantage stacking for so long a lot of people probably don't even realize when they do it.

I used to think everyone would just max out the slider. They probably will but it doesn't matter that much. If it did Shadowborn would be meta.

sorry but how exactly a survivor that is able to 360 is even an entitled survivor? 3 second its not crucial for the gamplay, i get the point about time is everything but 3 seconds? again, i have no problems with survivor 360ing , most of them can't pull it off anyway. Idk man if a survivor is able to 360 me i think it s skilled, defo better of pre dropper , pallets campers and w key gamers, unskilled its me letting them spin me more than 1 time. theres no way to remove 360, its literally running in circle and spinning your camera, they have to remove running to remove it and makes no sense. i like a little bit of challenge when i chase, to me entitle is expecting to down a survivor in 10 seconds of a chase honestly

"you give us the old "new" animations back, you make survivors' hitboxes or the killers' attacks a little bit more generous, and/or you take away auto-aim, aim dressing, and lunge rollbacks which take away the killers' rightful hits. And just throwing this out there, maybe survivors shouldn't be able to go from standing to a full speed sprint instantly."

sorry but hitboxes in this game are already crappy, countless time i've had a down where i should not have had hit, and also the fact that having a bad connetion favours killers ( when i play survivors i 70 percent of killers are laggy as hell, vpn or whatever) making the hitboxes for suvivor and hits more generous its a little to much don't u think? even the second statment u made its not valid... wym they should not run full speed instantly ? so if i play let's say ghost face(one of my main), and i come around the corner while a survivor is doing a generator, they should not have a chace and i should have a guarantee hit on them cause they can't "sprint instantly"? sounds a little entitled to me, i'm not saying u are but the way u are talking makes me think that u want a guaranteed hit every time whitout any prossibility from surviors to do anything. and yes ideally u want to down a survivor as soon as possible, it would be amazing if all of them get down in a 10 secons chase, but thats not the case and the game is not called killer stomping generators repairer, its killers vs suvivors, and u have to put in mind that as u are not giving them an easy time while tryng to kill them, they are not gonna give u an easy time while they try to survive.

In an ideal word "saying 10-second chases against efficient survivors is still barely an even playing field, because they're always on gens and doing each in like 72 seconds" its true, but u can stack multiple regression perks if u feel like gens are flying and lets not act like those are the teams we face every game because in this forum seems like killers go only against efficents swf 9 games out of ten while the reality is that most of the games are against solo q that are the opposite of an efficent team. I can literally have a suvivors with 2k hours and survivors with 120 hours in the same lobby and thats beacuse mmr is not well designed and based on escape and kills, wich is really bad way to define the skills of a player. i get killers is frustrating sometimes, i love playing stealthy m1 killers and sometimes i get stomped hard gens are flying but that s the game, sometime u win sometime u loose like very other game. ans much as there are entitled suvivors(and killers) Let s stop acting like every survivor is an entitled survivor because they try to do their best to escape , because they loop or whatever, ill never understand this mentality of us vs them and if u remove the idea of wanting to survive everytime of wanting to 4 or 3k every time, you game experience will be so much better overall

i know why hit boxes are this way, thats my point, in a game where hit boxes are kinda crappy cause of multiple factors(lantency,the other player connection with favour mostly killer hits ecc), making hitbox bigger will be unfair. how this is off topic, i'm replying to something the other guy said

The problem with 360s is that survivors are going over the intended spin rate. If a survivor holds down the shift key, and cycles through the W/A/S/D keys, that is the intended spin rate. But people are bypassing this, and that should be removed. Remember that Blight had a way to bypass his intended rush turn rate, and that got fixed. This is the same situation.

Because that was a part of their point about FoV, which you have been attempting to derail the conversation with multiple times in the topic. In fact, every single comment has been about criticizing complaints about 360s or ranting about hitboxes, and not a single point about FoV issues. Its hard to return to the original topic when you continuously force discussion on a tangent. Make your own topic about that if you want to ignore the main topic in favor of discussing it, this topic is supposed to be about an accessibility issue, not your personal take on one of the aspects that said issue can impact.

Clarification edit: I'm not saying the person you were arguing with is any better, and equally shouldn't force a tangent in the topic. everyone should stick to the topic at hand.

FoV slider is an accessibility option, and has been for decades. I understand you think its just a slider to delete "stealth" from the game, but please don't make dishonest posts like this when I'm trying to simply get the conversation back on track and away from things like collision detection complaints and entitlement on either side.

Wasn't the game also intended to be played solo originally? Now we have a solo/ sfw gap that makes the game much more difficult for a large chunk of the player base. Another issue that can easily be fixed with small changes, but it's never addressed.

asking for Shadowborn base kit isn't crazy (as OP points out). It would be a small but healthy change. It would make killer role more accessible and less punishing to play. What do survivors lose with this? The ability to be invisible when they hug the killer? It's a positive change with a minor loss.

And I agree with UE being base kit as well. We have so many mundane perks that should just be part of the game because they making playing more fun/ accessible. Shadowborn, Urban Evasion, Kindred, Buckle Up, Fire Up (Those come mind first).

BHVR could just make a spin rate limit, similar to how they gave Blight a rush turn rate limit. In fact, BHVR made two separate rush turn rate limits on Blight, so I'm sure they can figure out how to give survivors a spin rate limit.

The problem with aim dressing is that it causes attacks to get verified twice. If the server verifies a hit, it should give the killer the hit, then it can yank the camera or do whatever else it wants to make the hit look nice. It shouldn't verify a hit, yank the camera, then verify again if the hit is still valid.

It is a design flaw because the risk reward ratio is off. In most scenarios you want riskier moves to be more rewarding, and safer moves to be less rewarding. This design philosophy is seen with quite a good number of Killer powers. If you miss a Shred as Demo or a Dash as Wesker, you have a cooldown slowing you down and/or limiting your camera movement until completed. At the same time you can get an easier hit in circumstances that this can help accomplish. Risk up, reward up. Hard tunneling off of hook has no such risks involved, especially when you compare the maximum 2 health states of an unhooked survivor, shortened to 1 if you have the ability to count to 10 while using your ears (no crying = hit early to bust through OTR). Compare that to the rescuer, who likely will have less hook states, and more maximum health states (3 with an endurance effect). Low risk high reward, so it is clearly bad. To improve this, we should seek to make it more risky to tunnel, and/or more rewarding to go after the rescuer instead.

The only circumstance where you want low risk to be more rewarding, is in single-player games when you turn the difficulty down. You feel good because you can defeat your opposition, but you aren't accomplishing as much in terms of skill. In a multiplayer game you should expect a normal risk-reward paradigm, and deviations from that, in general, are bad. If I do the equivalent thing in a multiplayer game to 'turn the difficulty down' I am acknowledging my failure to compete with my opposition, and/or engaging in a power trip. Same thing if you bring a BNP every match, pick Blight/Nurse every match, use syringes every match, etc.

As detailed in the above response, bad risk-reward is bad design. QoL is nice, but not a substitute for proper design in the first place. Design flaws should be addressed before QoL, but when QoL is easy to implement without unseen consequences it should be done. For example UI navigation. The menu change imo was an excellent QoL feature, especially being able to select both sided tomes simultaneously. There are no such balance considerations in doing so. Also QoL need not be a strict buff to sided performance as seen with the menus. A simple QoL change for Killer would be a small Deerstalker effect. It has no effect on chase, and helps when foliage is just a bit too tall with lag potentially moving a downed Survivor to where you wouldn't be expecting them. While the time saved may be massive for later in the game (getting that SH:PR preventing a gen pop), it is accelerating the already earned process of picking up a downed Survivor in a positive way imo. Speeding up carry movement speed to faster than Survivor's movement would be an example of a bad QoL change, as it is currently designed with the idea that carrying a Survivor makes you slower than a Survivor. They both serve the same goal of getting a downed Survivor hooked sooner, but one can have less negative or unintended consequences than the other.

I don't see where I contradicted myself, as all of it is logically consistent with a better experience overall for game health, although to be fair not personal health. One issue causes new factional players to hard quit and not spend money/continue to play the game, where the other factional issue is largely a strict buff under the guise of 'accessibility'. To be fair, I could be wrong on the second point here, as FOV based motion sickness is a personal issue that I am not being given studies or other fact based information to show me otherwise (is it 1 in 3, or 1 in 300k? is it unbearable to the point of uninstalling or a mild nuisance?).

Just because you are so entrenched in the petty tribalism of Killer vs Survivor doesn't mean everyone else shares your flaw. I detailed numerous buffs and nerfs to both sides that I would like to be implemented here (and in 2-10 each independently as different posts).

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/345813/dbd-problems-and-potential-fixes-1-10-splitting-up

There is a google doc with all the sections, and this is one of those many subsections. I could update the formatting and organization, but I largely stand by most all of those changes even now. Some such nerfs to Survivor include slower solo gen speeds (except on only solo-able gens), basekit Call of Brine reveal for good co-op gen skill checks, and med-kit self-healing cut to 2/3rds. Some basekit Killer buffs include, but aren't limited to, lesser Grim Embrace basekit (that can proc twice now, both basekit and perk), Devour Hope styled speed boost but only for leaving hook, a small basekit Deerstalker, the smashing aspect of Shattered Hope becoming an optional basekit (as in you can choose to snuff or smash, on a totem by totem basis), and possible buffs for some of the weaker Killers and perks (that being both sides though). So don't lie and try to claim or otherwise infer I am a Survivor main, only wanting changes for one side. Try to take more of the information on its face, and have less preconceived notions going into threads assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a factional or tribal opponent. I try to explain the 'why' of everything, that is why my posts tend to be longer. I give people ample opportunity to detail why my 'whys' are wrong, and you have done none of that, leading me to believe you want to drown out a dissenting voice, instead of attack the merits of my reasoning.

That's kind of what I'm trying to say. It may be that I'm just a baby killer who gets 360'd, even with thousands of hours in game. But we don't know that for sure, because it gets skewed by the existence of console auto-aim.

Yes, I am asking for a guaranteed hit... in situations where that's what the result should be. If a survivor is in my lunge range, no pallet or nothing, and I lunge, why should I not be able to hit them? Survivors should just be able to 360 or fov "mindgame" to get free time and distance on top of avoiding what should have been an easy hit. I think the fact that you pay special attention to, and keep a record of, times where you've maybe gotten a generous hit as killer shows that your thinking is survivor-centric. Mine is killer-centric, hence me being able to count the amount of generous hits I've been given in the last year on 1 hand. I don't think bad connection favors killers, because it seems to lead to more situations where your weapon is 90% done with its swing through the pallet, but the survivor still drops it in time and takes away your hit. Same with Dead Hard where they're somehow always perfectly timed.

Gen regression has never been more overrated. It's a setback and a delay, but it in no way guarantees that the gens won't be all done, and when they're all done the survivors have pretty much won, especially since they're confident enough these days to always bring Adrenaline AND/or Hope. Even with pre-nerf Pop, gens were easily getting done every time, because perks like that only give you regression if you're downing like all the time. If not, which is very likely at high MMR, you get nothing, which is why my meta build before 6.1.0 was Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out, because they're the only slowdown killer's got that isn't dependent on survivors going down all the time.

I do believe that I go against really efficient survivors or SWF 9/10 games, or at least 8/10. It's more noticeable now that I'm getting multiple people with scores of prestige levels in my lobbies. In just 2 nights during the last week, I've had 2 matches with prestige 100 survivors, and other matches with prestige 40+ and prestige 70+, and sometimes all of those types of survivors in the same lobby. My survivors are no joke, but everyone else seems to think it is. I will never have time to just mess around with stealth killers to get jumpscares like y'all do. I'm too focused on winning, or at least keeping up with the madness of the match at hand. I would need to be low MMR to be chill, and I do agree that MMR is screwed up because I'll face the sweatiest team ever and then complete babies, just randomly. I don't blame the survivors ever, unless they're being toxic. I get mad at the game balance for allowing them to have such an easy time for doing so little. Don't want to get hit? Just spin the joystick. If only my problems in a match of killer were as easily solved. No, you get to settle for a 1k, because those few key downs were denied because of 100% safe loops and then aim dressing when you finally did catch up to them.

The killer’s FoV is a problem because of aim dressing and 360s. Killers often have to yank their camera during a lunge because of 360s, which makes it easier for aim dressing to also yank the killer’s camera because of 360s. If 360s need to stay in the game so that survivors don’t have “feels bad movement”, then aim dressing needs to happen after the game gives the killer a hit (instead of before), and killers need to have enough FoV that survivors aren’t teleporting out of the FoV when they 360.

You're asking people to take a penalty in order to actually be able to play the game without getting sick. They're already at a penalty of sacrificing a perk slot to potentially get less sick while playing. A big issue people never seem to understand in accessibility discussions is that they are already at an advantage vs people affected by the issue, the field is being normalized, not stacked against you.

Original Shadowborn