Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Why isn't Trickster 115%?
Trickster doesn't belong in the 110% category of character. He may be a projectile-based character, but the Power that he has doesn't justify him being a 110% character because it's too weak.
Look at characters like Clown, Plague, Executioner, Twins, Nemesis, Cenobite and Artist, mid-to-long ranged Killers that have their own projectile or projectile-like ability, and they are all 115%.
Look at characters like Blight and Mastermind, who have high-mobility moves that grant them a burst of speed for great distances, and they are 115%.
These are characters that are objectively better than Trickster, and they all have the ability to move at the normal Killer movement speed. It doesn't make sense. Even the other projectile Killers like Huntress and Deathslinger get more inherent value due to them only requiring one hit to actually do damage.
Just because The Trickster has the ability to throw knives and possibly injure people from afar--an extremely unlikely event in and of itself--doesn't mean he should be 110%. If anything, him needing to hit 6 knives in order to injure a Survivor should justify him being a 115% Killer, since his power takes time to get value from it, and he loses significant distance the longer he holds the power.
There's no reason to keep The Trickster at 110%. He should be a 115% Killer.
Comments
-
It's uhhh. Because he's a killer that takes health states from range. Comparing him to killers that merely inconvenience survivors from range is rather disingenuous.
6 -
I mean artist takes health states away from range yet us 115
2 -
Don't forget that she can also pressure the entire map!!!
Yeah, I think she should be 110% as well. Incredibly oppressive killer.
2 -
Artist does have to hit twice in a very small window with high precision.
3 -
So I am going to agree with the 115 question. So he takes away health states by range but requires to hit with 6 blades to do so and the entire time that you are able to throw you are below survivor speed. I have the same question about his lullaby and why he has one but someone like Deathslinger doesnt. Like I understand thematically, sorta but it just doesnt make sense to me. Like my thought on the lullaby was always that it doesnt guarentee free hits like with huntress. Or even with Sadako and Freddy they have no terror radius during the time. But trickster has the normal 24m terror radius for a 110 killer and a lullaby out to 40m, that varies in volume based on distance.
Artist needs to hit twice, but ignores all objects in the way and the bird has a pretty large hitbox. Trickster needs to hit 6 times and unless you are decently close you need amazing accuracy because those daggers are tiny and are blocked by sticks.
0 -
The only buff trickster needs is basekit trick pouch and that's it. He's a hard killer to be good at.
3 -
You have to have to land the initial hit with a single crow otherwise cooldown time is longer than it takes to repel the swarm. And even with a single crow you have a couple second window to actually place and fire your crows before the survivor finishes the repelling action. Due to the nature of placing her crows before firing, she can't re-aim once she places a crow down. The nature of Artist getting damage with her crow swarm is precise, because there's practically no room for any error.
0 -
But she also has the fact that if she hits a crow at a short distance she gets instant damage. But regardless I would think the main reason why this is being brought up is there are several loops where the Trickster cannot get damage anyway outside of gaining multiple bloodlust because the rock is too tall to shoot over and killer hitboxes are bigger making a 110 not gain distance on survivors until BL kicks in. And because using his power eliminates bloodlust he cant do what huntress or deathslinger can which is get to a spot where they can shoot and get an injury. because he needs to hit 6 times. so hitting 1-2 blades, resetting the loop, doesnt work because the laceration meter can start regressing before you get into that position again. Like these are meant to be strong loops but not ones that will require 25 seconds to get the pallet out of the way.
The biggest issue I would see to making him a 115% would be his Iridescent Photocard because he would be M1ing, which is easily changed to altering his speed to 110% whilst using this add-on.
0 -
I think he is fine at 110%. His power has huge snowball potential right off the bat compared to some other killers. He could receive some quality of life changes that make him feel better to use though such as predictable recoil (recoil is annoyingly random right now) that would add some skill into controlling the recoil, and maybe have Trick Pouch (hold 4 extra knives) and Killing Part Chords (very slightly increased throw state movement speed) base-kit. All in all though, I feel mainly the recoil needs to be adjusted.
2 -
Going to disagree to a degree, Artist provides a lot of visual cues for their power, most of the time I dodge the crows if they are sent from across the map, and even if they hit me, there is normally a locker close to the generator I can hop in and out of to remove the crows.
Also Artist already slows down when on their cooldown for their power, there is an addon that makes her move faster during cooldown but it is borderline useless compared to Artist's other addons.
EDIT: Another thing to note is that Artist still takes two shots to take a health state from across the map. Artist has anti-loop but Artist is a set-up killer and is destroyed by holding W, making her 110% would just make her weaker since it would make holding W more viable against her.
A killer like Trickster moves slower but their design is more for anti-loop than range (similar to Deathslinger), they move slower but can chain health states easily when played right, so having them slower makes some sense. Getting caught in a complete deadzone against Trickster is basically a death sentence.
0 -
I woudl like Trickster to be that fast, but it would be very op
1 -
I feel like comparing trickster to artist is not the right comparison. I think the three better comparisons are Huntress, Deathslinger, and Plague.
Huntress and Death slinger are both 110 because they can damage someone on approach from a long range, huntress being infinite, Slinger being 18m. And Trickster can as well... theoretically but not practically. Realistically the only time that trickster is going to get a damage state on a survivor from a considerable distance is either in the middle of a chase when he is already using and being slowed by his power or if a survivor is greeding a gen or save.
But a killer who actually has a power very similar to trickster is Plague, a 115% killer. Her vomit builds up like the stacks of laceration that dont fall off. Yes Trickster can hit the survivor 2 using his power, but plagues damage doesnt provide a speed boost.
Again I think the main difference as to why trickster should be 115 instead of 110 is he cannot snipe damage the same way huntress or deathslinger can. His main power comes from catching people in dead zones which he cannot even do stealthily because of his lullaby. He also is unable to compensate for his loss of speed with PWYF because a single blade costs a stack.
0 -
I also compared him to Plague, Huntress and Deathslinger with very similar arguments on them.
It just doesn't seem to make sense that Trickster should be slower to begin with when his Power is weak enough to justify a higher movement speed. And a 5% movement speed change would do a whole lot of good for him, but it wouldn't cause him to be oppressive overnight.
And to anyone below or above that think him being 110% is justifiable, please consider the fact that despite his mid-range ability:
- He has slow activation and deactivation time on his power (0.35/1.25 seconds to enter/exit).
- He still moves at 3.86m/s down to 3.68m/s while using his Power.
- He still needs 6 shots to get 1 health state in.
- When using his Power, he is literally extending the amount of time he and the Survivor need to rotate around the loop until an interaction occurs; these interactions include either causing an injury, down or pallet drop from the Survivor's end.
Does this sound like a 110% Killer to you?
0 -
Dude I am with you. The only thing I thing I would also change is Iri Photocard keeping putting his movement speed back down to 110%. Its a strong enough add on as is and the extra 5% would be oppressive with that add-on.
0 -
And possibly make him easier to control for console killers, it's much harder to use him on console than from keyboard and when facing a trickster that is on PC, you can very much feel the difference
1 -
None of the killers you listed are mid-to-long range. Artist is a short range killer with a long range harassment option. She has a very tight window to get a follow up to actually hit. Trickster is 110% because he has an actual projectile that can injure and down from any distance, as long as he has line of sight. Killer movement speeds aren't set by some arbitrary standard of how far they can injure someone from; they're based on balance. A Nurse moving at 110% with double blinks would be busted. A spirit moving at 115% with her power would be far too strong, and so on.
1 -
The problem with trickster is, that he is arguably second strongest camper in game (right after bubba). It's nothing special for trickster to get 5-6 full health states in basement (not even counting main event).
If he got hit cooldown after taking a healthstate same as practically all killers (plague can get 1/state per survivor on all survivors and bubba is even stronger camper), then I would agree to making him 115% killer. Overall not counting being in open or trying to rescue against him - he really is one of weaker killers that needs something. Alas he has those 2 things (mainly camping is the problem).
0 -
Trickster's design is just extremely flawed. You make him 115 and now he's super oppressive in chases, able to build up laceration while also gaining distance on survivors. There's a reason he's hated already which is he can almost guarantee an eventual down on you. 44 knives and he has to hit 12 of them. That sounds like a lot but you can usually get about 3 or 4 knives in on a single vault animation. Sure, he may not be super good at certain loops but that doesn't mean he isn't awful to play against.
His main issue currently is that his power just isn't consistent on certain tiles. That and main event never coming into play. He's just a disaster. I think they tried to do what they originally intended with legion. That being a killer who combos hits. While Legion left basically no counter against frenzy, Trickster just gives you a very long and drawn out death. You will die, but it's only a matter of when. You can die in seconds because it's a low-wall loop or you can die after 3 gens get done because you're at a main building.
He is weak but definitely not to the level people say he is. His power is about keeping pressure through chase but his mechanics are so bad they don't do anything. You hit a survivor with 4 knives and leave them, now you accomplished nothing.
I like the idea Scott Jund had when Trickster released, being that you have to remove the knives from yourself. The idea is that you could build game pressure with him. Survivors would have to take a small amount of time to remove knives manually or they could leave them in to save time but also make themselves vulnerable to his ability later. So instead of just having to dodge a flurry of knives for however long, you could actually do it yourself during chase and actually counter his ability. It's dumb for both sides that laceration is just timer based. It basically means the survivors just have to hold W against a 110 killer to win. Leaving very little else to actually do.
0 -
He still moves at 3.86m/s down to 3.68m/s while using his Power.
this statistic right here is what makes trickster feel slow. Because he has to hit 6 knifes, he shoots around 10-15 knifes in a volley for every health-state he inflicts although this number can go up or down depending on survivor's skill-level in movement(this can go upwards to 20-25). Shooting 10-15 knifes takes a lot of time and make LOS incredibly easy against trickster.
Trickster's slow movement when holding knifes drains his skill-ceiling and puts ton of power in the survivor's hands. He has to spend like 10-15 seconds in throwing mode for what other ranged killers spent 5-6 seconds.
With Huntress, Deathslinger and Red puke plague have timed windows where they can calculate the survivor's running speed and line up shots to avoid their movement speed reduction. According to wiki, Huntress is 77% during wind-up, Deathslinger is 93.5 % although this stat never matter for deathslinger when he could quick-scope and Plague is 110% m/s. None of these m/s penalty are too severe because how little time these killers spent in their throwing mode.
Trickster's m/s in throwing knife mode should really be 110%-105% but survivor mains would cry that he is too strong now and has no counter-play in 1vs1. they would complain that dodging 44(33) knifes is too difficult for survivors. I am not entirely sure how you would resolve that problem. maybe he has 30 knifes but he reloads lockers 50% faster compare to huntress? Not entirely sure, but his power is 110% worthy if it was balanced correctly.
0 -
It's very simple. Trickster's power is so incredibly terrible that if you made him 115, you would never want to use it in favor of just going for an M1, so you gotta make him 110 to make his power seem more appealing.
0 -
He is very weak on controller... To me it is more "unplayable" than nurse. Someone else?
0 -
He's like one of the most chase oppressive killers in the game. He's fine at 110%
1 -
I agree that Trickster needs a small re-work. I used to be a Trickster main, leveled him all the way up to P10 but got sick of how incredibly slow he was. Here's some of my idea's:
- Main event should be activated any time without it disappearing. It takes a lot of hard work to achieve main event, only for it to dissipate when you don't need it.
- His movement speed should be increased slightly, so many times I feel like I can never catch up to survivors, so the only way is to throw knives which further reduces movement speed and increases the gap.
- Increase time for laceration to disappear or lower the amount of blades to injure from 6 to 5.
- Increase movement speed when he's throwing his blades.
Please re-work him, I like the character, lore and cosmetics and it's a shame how I'm literally throwing games by simply playing him, even with addons. He most likely won't be reworked even though BHVR is still pumping out cosmetics for him like crazy.
0 -
Main even can't be on demand. Again - reason is he would be actually better camper then Bubba. This needs to be fixed first and then he can be buffed.
0 -
Why isn't Blight 110%? Who knows. Dbd isn't always about what does makes sense, sometimes it's just about the feels. Feelings, vibes, moodes. Why has the blight also so many broken addons but good old Hillbilly got dushed on? Because they felt like to do this. Doesn't makes sense if you can't feeeeel it bro.
You have to feeeeeel it. When you start feeeeling it you will understand.
2 -
yeah he wouldnt be strong even as a 4.6, but hes already unfun to vs in chase
id just make main event do something and allow you to hold onto it - blood fury turns oni into the single strongest killer in the game and he can hold onto it from the start of the game until the match force ends
0
