Base Kit perks for killer when?

It's like lightborn, god forbid they never make it basekit or I'll never get value from it again, lol

NGL I would love to see snuffing being replaced with breaking. Either that or having hexes work like boons where you could ignite a different dull totem if you see it at snuffing speed. But I am unsure how balanced that would be. Devour stacks would have to drop off if you replaced the totem

So when are the fixes coming that result in killers who aren't nurse spirit or blight being completely unplayable at a high level?

No because killers would get to their pain resonance faster and waaaay more consistently..

You - "Killers did not have to wait 6 years to get sweeping buffs. Most buffs that were widespread were much earlier in the games life, and then in the downtime where there wasn't much happening a bunch of strong tools for Survivors were pretty heavily nerfed"

Also You - "the only time this was true, was with 6.1.0 and thats because it was the biggest wave of buffs any side has received in the history of DbD which also came with heavy Survivor nerfs"

It took BHVR 6 years to have "the biggest wave of buffs any side has received in the history of DBD" and while part of that is definitely because there's simply more content, it still aids my point. People in fact had to wait 6 years for BHVR to fully commit to enhancing the Killer experience with a monumental patch mostly dedicated to them, you cannot seriously mean to compare sprinkled QoL improvements in 2016-2018 to the entirety of patch 6.1. It is (in your own words) the ONLY time in DBD that they've done something of that magnitude and guess what you also admitted? That they had to immediately release damage control because people couldn't possibly fathom Killers getting an entire patch dedicated to them in modern DBD

If these sweeping Killer buffs were as common as you claim throughout the years there wouldn't have been THAT large of an outrage over it and I'm sure even you would be willing to concede that point just like I'm willing to concede that its probably a stretch to say they ALWAYS give Survivors an equal attention hotfix

"You say they made a "kneejerk reaction" from the outcry of 6.1.0, and the proof is the MoM rework? MoM wasn't even that strong on the PTB since it still had the same issue as it did before and still has after they reverted the nerf"

I didn't mention MoM because I view it as some scary/gamebreaking OP perk, I mentioned it to point out how BHVR was so shook of the hatemongering from Survivors towards 6.1 + the DH echo chamber where people falsely claimed the perk was dead that they had to quickly and randomly save face with instant Killer nerfs AND useless changes to dead perks that nobody asked for at that particular moment. The point I tried to make with MoM is that nobody was petitioning for that above other issues but they still did it right after 6.1 because it was a cheap bone they could toss to jaded Survivors that were trying to throw a massive protest over the game

I'm more than confident if I was allowed the chance to review every year's patches that we could talk more about the specific eras individually, but you 100% have to concede that in the modern era nothing has been done for Killers to that extent until 6.1

You can't compare basic things like removing infinite loops or gen regression % in 2016/17 to changing gen speeds in 2022 because the game was in infancy back then. Without those changes the game would have literally died before it even reached its prime. While they obviously benefitted Killers the energy behind those patches is nowhere near the same of the recent patches we've had and that includes Survivors. Changes back then were to draw new players to the game whereas the main focus now is to save the players that are already here and bring back the ones they lost

For the most part, BHVR is at least trying to steer the ship around and learn from previous mistakes hence why they're focusing on trying to draw back all the players that left due to 2020-2022 Killer/SBMM. I'm sure they lost a lot of SoloQ exclusive players and that will be their next focus

"Now this is what I don't understand, what do you mean by "numerous game-breaking Killer bugs"? I can't really recall there being any."

Lets see, off the top of my head Nemesis' tentacle bug where it wasn't appearing to be out even if it was, Wesker dropping Survivors and not injuring them, colliding with pallets or windows instead of vaulting them with virulent bound, Pig's Dash sound not playing properly, Twins not being able to swap between Charlotte and Vic, and I'm gonna be honest many more including some that may not exactly be game-breaking but still relevant. There's literally so many bugs on Killers that we would legit have to do a psycho-analysis of every single one in existence which I think is extra. You get the point and there's proof available, I have no incentive to lie

One last thing:

You - "The Finishing Mori is not a buff nor a nerf to any side."

Also You - "The only thing I found stupid of that PTB was Unbreakable, no reason why it allows you to get up that fast every single time."

Please explain to me how dropping a PTB out of thin air for a concept that currently doesn't even exist in the game where UNBREAKABLE IS ALSO BASEKIT UNLIMITED does not count as a buff or nerf to anybody?????? The proposed update was not only irrelevant to everything that was happening at that specific moment in time, but it also makes high-pressure high-mobility Killers even deadlier while incentivizing them to slug to trigger the Mori cinematic AND the Mori bloodpoint bonus while also allowing one of the best Survivor perks to ever exist to be used UNLMITED. Several Killers have their entire kit designed around slugging, several Killers don't have the mobility or the M2 capablities to efficiently split pressure beyond a certain Survivor skill threshold but lets mitigate ways for them to pressure while simultaneously making the insanely mobile S/A tiers more threatening by being able to guarantee the game ends if they snowball (Which they do incredibly often. That's the entire reason they're considered S/A tier)

There are several perks that help with reaching hooks (Agitation, Iron Grasp, Mad Grit if you’re being blocked). As you’ve previously encouraged survivors to do, if there is an element of gameplay you find inconvenient use your perks. :)

I mean... making usefull functions as perks and not as basekit of survivor is way more of a bandaid fix than just making it available for everyone and balancing around it...

I mean tunneling is not only a problem solo q people have right? So why would you not? And in general if you decide to tunnel someone out it is pretty fair if it is made harder on you...

I like that they did something about tunneling, but I would just removed collision from the unhooked survivor and give him bt on top... So he can just run away but cannot body block... So that way you cannot abuse it to block... But then again if you really try to block at all cost with your bt you can expect to just get downed again and maybe hooked again and then you really cannot cry about that kind of tunneling.

Now really, basekit BT was never meant to be a buff, it was given to fix a faulty mechanic in gameplay that was the killer being able to down someone the moment their feet touched the ground. And it wasnt even a normal attack as a huntress could just throw you a hatchet while you were in unhook animation and you would be downed anyway.

That was something that should have been in the game years ago, but it took such a long time for the devs to realise that survivors were forced at gunpoint to play every game with 3 perks because you couldnt unhook without BT.

I would love basekit Corrupt! 😍 I don't think it would make that much of a difference for the survivors either, with the way new corruption works!

This reminds me ofa really old and outdated post in the dbd steam discussions where a survivor made a "survivor nerf/biff list and complained tha killers got more buffs, counting bugfixes as buffs for killers. Shortly after someone made a list twice as long and triple as accurate proving survs had it way better.

Personal perceütion sure can be nisleading

"It took BHVR 6 years to have "the biggest wave of buffs any side has received in the history of DBD" and while part of that is definitely because there's simply more content, it still aids my point. People in fact had to wait 6 years for BHVR to fully commit to enhancing the Killer experience with a monumental patch mostly dedicated to them, you cannot seriously mean to compare sprinkled QoL improvements in 2016-2018 to the entirety of patch 6.1."

The killer experience has been improving year by year, it didn't take them 6 years to do so. Hell why only have 1 patch dedicated to improving the killer experience, when 2018 itself was pretty much an entire year dedicated to improving the killer experience. In that one year we got:

-Reduced pallet spawns by improving the spawn logic (double pallets at every loop were removed, making the average map no longer spawn 30+ pallets)

-Removal of pallet vacuums

-Increased healing time

-Exhaustion no longer recovering while running

-HEAVILY nerfing Borrowed Time, by only giving Endurance to the person being unhooked and not the savior as well

-Removal of the most oppressive nuclear option on the Survivor side, Brand New Part (half of a skill check counted as a great, hitting a good skill check would repair 5% of the generator, and a great would repair 10%. The entire toolbox would be consumed if you either let go of the gen, failed a skill check, or completed the generator. Meaning theoretically 4 gens could be repaired within 30 seconds of the game starting

-Reworked both swamps by DRASTICALLY reducing their size. No map comes even close to how big old Grim Pantry and Pale Rose were. Reason why this is such a big deal is because they were known to be the most problematic maps in the game

-Decreased how impactful fog is for better visibility on the killer side

-Decreased pick up and hook timing

-Several perk updates

-Several killer reworks

-Increased hook spawning, making their spawns more consistent

-Improved scratch marks

There are more that I know I'm forgetting, but even then these were changes that were MUCH more impactful to improving the killer experience than a 10% increase to some actions and increased gen times. Now you might be wondering what changes Survivors got during this time that benefited them? They got their max recovery increased from 85% to 95% (what it is now) and BT now gives Deep Wounds instead of its own unique timer. Meaning you wouldn't bleed out after 25 seconds after being hit, no matter if you were in a chase.

Whats unique about 6.1.0 is the amount of changes in 1 singular patch, the biggest patch prior to that was probably 2.1.0 which reworked a dozen perks while also including some of the changes mentioned above (increased healing times, exhaustion changes, pick up and hook timing) and there was an outcry at the time, but the devs had learned from their mistake back in October the year prior, where an ACTUAL kneejerk reaction was done to a MASS outcry from the Survivor player base

That outcry was the introduction of Freddy, people were review bombing the game and the DLC on Steam because of how "OP Freddy was". When it reality he was the weakest killer in the game. He lasted about 2 weeks before digging him into a bigger hole than he was in before. Best part is they almost nerfed one of his perks, Remember Me. That nerf was announced in a dev stream and was prevented because now the opposite happened. Killer players started review bombing the game, and that actually prevented the nerf to Remember Me. The devs later said in a dev stream that they'd never do such a kneejerk reaction again, and they've kept their word on that.

The MoM rework seems more like a coincidence and unfortunate timing more than anything. Not the devs attempting to throw the Surviovrs a bone.

You're right on that, modern era DbD hasn't done much to killers. But it has done lots to Survivors. I'd consider modern era DbD to be year 4 and up. In that time, several maps have been reworked and their loops. (Things like the Ironworks window, Rancid Abattoir main building, Wretched Shop main building have been heavily nerfed) hatch/keys are no where near as strong as they were before, perks like Decisive Strike and Object of Obsession have been nerfed (yes even before 6.1.0, DS was nerfed with the Trickster patch).

"You can't compare basic things like removing infinite loops or gen regression % in 2016/17 to changing gen speeds in 2022 because the game was in infancy back then. Without those changes the game would have literally died before it even reached its prime. While they obviously benefitted Killers the energy behind those patches is nowhere near the same of the recent patches we've had and that includes Survivors. Changes back then were to draw new players to the game whereas the main focus now is to save the players that are already here and bring back the ones they lost." You've got it the wrong way

Changes back then were to keep their existing players, as the game was already getting a pretty big influx of new players with how many big content creators were making videos on the game. Big names like Ohmwrecker, Markiplier and PewDiePie were making videos on the game which obviously exposed the game to A LOT of people. In fact the reason why I got DbD was because of Markiplier. Nowadays its a balance between keeping the old and getting new, which is pretty obvious with the amount of licenses the game is getting from all sorts of different franchises. (Just looking at the most recent collaborations proves this, Ringu wasn't a big deal in the west, but its definitely appreciated by the Japanese community, AoT brings in anime fans as its one of the most successful ones out there, and Resident Evil is probably one of the most recognizable names in horror.

"Please explain to me how dropping a PTB out of thin air for a concept that currently doesn't even exist in the game where UNBREAKABLE IS ALSO BASEKIT UNLIMITED does not count as a buff or nerf to anybody??????"

The concept wasn't out of thin air, it was announced during their anniversary livestream and there's a reason why it was purely on the PTB for testing. Its because they know this will be a big change and they don't want to jump the gun. Contrary to your belief, these changes are relevant. The past year and a half has been about improving the games health. Part of that is removing unhealthy parts of the game and dragging a game on for no reason by leaving 4 people to bleed out on the ground is definitely unhealthy.

The PTB definitely wasn't perfect and needs some tweaks. Again, Unbreakable was one of them. Being able to continuously pick yourself up in 22.5 seconds is just straight up bs and is just a better version of Exponential at that point.

As for why it doesn't count as a buff or nerf, I guess I worded it wrong. Its most definitely a buff for Survivors but I don't think its going to be as impactful as people are making it out to be. Very rarely is a Survivor slugged for more than 45 seconds anyway, and if they are then thats a Survivor who's been basically useless for a pretty long time. What I think the Finishing Mori does do how ever is add another layer and more depth to the game. Its mainly going to come into play when there's 2 Survivors remaining. Slug one, and you still have a good bit of time to catch the other to ultimately finish the match.  

Also killers with high mobility/snowball potential will benefit from this in a lower skill bracket, experienced Survivors don't get 4 man slugged very often. And if they do get the slug (no matter the skill bracket) well the killer would of most likely won the game anyway since its pretty hard to recover from that as Survivor.

I also appreciate this back and forth btw, probably the most civil and thoughtful one I've had yet :)

So survivors need perks just to repair gens or just to open exit gates?