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Black locks are bad for the game.
Comments
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Saying that the killer did bad because the gens were powered is outcome bias, which is what I was addressing. You also in the same breath had no issue complaining about NOED being able to say that kills in egc don't mean that the killer played well. You're being selective with your reasoning, even in this post complaining about EGC perks killer has while ignoring things like adrenaline and hope having the same conditions. I am adamant in trying to get you to stop being biased for five seconds.
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What about removing hook states and adding a collective hook counter. No more forcing hook stages, and survivors get the chases they really want. They should add some sort of killer instinct during the endgame to remove stale situations like the last 2 survivors hiding forever without ever touching their objectives. Hatch 50/50 and doors 50/50 are actually a good mechanic stats wise because they increase the survivors escape rate. Which allowed killers to stay like this without getting nerfed.
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It has to do with what i originally posted though, concerning fairness and unfairness. The person I replied to was complaing about hatch robbing killers of deserved 4k. And I replied on the side of survivors and you replied to me about gen speeds. We were already having a different sort of conversation there.
As for gen timers I don't get what 90 x 2 means. I understand how you came up with 180 seconds though.
Killers objective also takes too little. If a killers objective is to sacrifice all survivors then we can assume they all start under a hook and he only has to hit them twice and hook and then hook them right? Let's say it takes 3 seconds to attack and recover, then you need 3 more seconds for second attack. So that is a total of 6 seconds. Time to pick up a survivor is 3 seconds and time to hook him is 1.5. So that's in total like 10.5 seconds x 4 = 42 seconds to hit and hook all survivors. How much time till they are all sacrificed. Well, each hook stage is 60 seconds right?
Once all are hooked and reach stage two they are all automatically sacrificed. That is dependent on the time the last survivor was hooked, which is at 42 seconds. Add to that 60 seconds and all survivors are killed at 102.
Survivors doing their objective as optimally as possible without taking into account anything realistic (like killer chasing them or them looking for gens or killer interrupting them and kicking gens) still takes a lot longer than it takes the killer to sacrifice all of them as second stage is skipped entirely once all are on hooks.
Survivors have no always had to to experience that part of the game when hatch could be used by all of them and spawned earlier. Removing that has made the game inherently easier for killers as now survivors are forced to play out the whole game even when they are at an extremely disadvantaged position. I am not advocating for the game to return to that state, merely mentioning that things existing at the moment does not mean they always have existed or that they always will, or the circumstances around them won't change.
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Many killers can curbstomp effortlesty the survivor team.
The whole gen regressing meta has as sole purpose to avoid reaching EGC.
With this in mind, It is not outcome bias to assume that a killer who reach endgame without closing the hatch has made some bad moves.
I am not complaining about NOED, but you disregard the fact that NOED has given easy endgame kills to many killer for years. and the disparity of the strength of effects like NOED and No way out, against Hope and Adrenaline are remarkable. That's why EGC rewards killer more heavily even if it is a state that the survivors worked to get.
You are telling me biased like you are not extremely killer biased yourself.
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No, the hatch is necessary. Otherwise survs literally have nothing to play for if killer snowballs. Then you'll get more DCs or survivors giving up on hook/running at the killer.
Killers already have it pretty easy. But if it's down to 2 or even 3 survs when its on 3 or 4 gens then the game is usually a write off, especially in soloq. In that case a single survivor should have a chance of escaping. Otherwise what's the point in continuing to play that match?
Sure you end up with the odd match with 2 players hiding trying to get hatch. But there are plenty of ways for killer to deal with that.
I say this as a player who splits roughly equally between killer and surv. This game would suck for survivors without hatch. And I'm never particularly bothered as killer if last surv escapes me via hatch. Makes for an interesting endgame and prevents the game totally stalling when one surv is left.
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up to 4 gens can be done at once, which means that 90 seconds can be anywhere from 1-4 gens being completed. The expected variable is for 1 person to be in chase, while 3 are working on gens: This gives the gens two "waves" of 90 seconds they can be completed in.
Killers objective also takes too little. If a killers objective is to sacrifice all survivors then we can assume they all start under a hook and he only has to hit them twice and hook and then hook them right?Going to ignore the rest about TTD and such because I very specifically omitted all factors for both sides that can affect the duration of the objective, so lets keep it relative when making that kind of comparison. Hook timers are 60 seconds per stage, which means a single kill requires 120 as base. Since the killer is only one person, it is impossible to give this a set cadence like the survivors, they can only be doing one thing at a time. This then requires estimation, so we can try being forgiving and use 1 hook state as the "simultaneous action" limitation: We will assume for comparison purpose it takes 60 seconds per kill despite knowing it can very easily be more or less. That said, you are looking at 240 seconds for all 4 to be killed, which is longer than the 180 compared to. Understandably this is an extremely unstable comparison, but the very nature of the fact it is incomparable without piling on multiple factors is part of the issue. It is impossible to measure the objective of the killer, especially in comparison.
That said, I once again posit that my point was very specifically about the endgame being part of the game proper, due to how the objectives are balanced. Both rely heavily on the factors that surround them, which is why I often state that the game is "balanced on averages." I'm not even going to touch comments about wanting the old hatch back, especially as someone who refused to take part in standoffs and regularly jumped to my death instead of plopping down and opening netflix.
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Yes many killers can do well. That is a completely pointless comment, and has absolutely nothing to do with me refuting your comments that a killer must have done poorly for the endgame to be reached.
The whole gen regressing meta has as sole purpose to avoid reaching EGC.Yes, that is how preventing your opponent's objective works.
With this in mind, It is not outcome bias to assume that a killer who reach endgame without closing the hatch has made some bad moves.now its been downgraded to "bad moves." You seem to have zero interest in how many mistakes any of the 4 survivors have made up to that point, which can still be plentiful and still have the same outcome. Making assumptions of the events that lead to a result and basing said assumptions on the outcome is, in fact, outcome bias.
I am not complaining about NOED, but you disregard the fact that NOED has given easy endgame kills to many killer for yearsWhere have I done that? I am actually very strongly against outcome bias, which is exactly what that statement is. Noed absolutely can and has given people free kills they should not have gotten, and I have never stated otherwise. This is known as conflating arguments.
I am not killer biased at all, it was a nice attempt at deflection though. I almost exclusively play solo queue survivor, I stopped bothering to even do killer dailies a while back. My issues with balance in the game are always centered around game design, and there's even another topic where someone made a very good point about how that relates to bias in perspective with the game. Please stop being argumentative and stick to the points presented. I was very reluctant to mention anything about the bias you present and regret doing so, but it's honestly becoming impossible not to. I'd appreciate if you didn't try to deflect it in response, but rather took a moment to reflect on it.
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The objective of the killer taking that long can be bypassed by slugging. Survivors have no perks so they cannot pick themselves up.
Slugging currently takes 4 minutes but if you slug all 4 in the first minute the game is won, the time in this case for the killer to complete his objective is artificially inflated. He can now watch TV. He doesn't even need to hook them, hooking them is simply a mechanic to hasten their death to complete his objective in a safer way (by adding pressure), but slugging if it's possible is the most definitive win.
if anything it seems to me it is the equivalent of survivors being able to spawn hatch before completing all gens and getting to their main objective (escaping) without having to do it through exit gens that require gens. Basically it bypassed a core mechanic that was counterable more easily by the killer.
Survivors don't have any such thing currently. So when you take into account slugging, it might seem like you need 4 mins or so to win but in reality, if the killer downs survivors one after the other the game can be over in less than a minute (and that is something we've seen happen by you know which killer, although admittedly they usually have perks to help them). Would you be willing to address this part of killer's gameplay or do you wanna limit the conversation to only hooks as the killers objective?
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Did you read the post where i posited multiple times that they do not have a direct comparison point, I have been removing all external factors from said comparisons due to attempting to establish a baseline, and that I was giving a generous estimation with the math? Gens can take 10 minutes and the killer can instadown 4 people in a row. The point of the comparison was specifically to avoid the whataboutism caused by the absolutely chaotic nature of the game.
The point, as always, was that the game was never designed for everything to be over when the gens are powered. If it were, gens would take a lot longer and endgame perks for either side would not exist. There's a reason the EGC doesn't even start until the hatch is closed or a door is open, the game is still not concluded. I don't understand why you're trying to force this into a partisan issue about woe is survivors, unless you're arguing with someone else at my post.
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Bypassing core gameplay mechanics is not whataboutism. The have been in the game in the past and survivors bypassing gens so all escape via hatch has been a real scenario.
Hook states aren't the end all for killers, gens are for survivors because they cannot escape any other way. Those mechanics exist in the game. if people are being nice not to use them, it's not because they cannot be strong, it's because people are putting silly limits and rules for themselves.
EGC has also not always been in the game. I don't think anyone of us is arguing with whatever the other one is saying. You're explaining or trying to explain to me why things have to be the way they are atm and I'm saying that they don't have because they haven't been in the past and won't be in the future.
The game at one point was designed for the game to be over when not even all 5 gens were powered. What are you even on? You have 10 times my post count, you've been here longer than me. You know that better than I do. Whether that was a good design choice is a different thing for you because you said you are not talking about fairness or unfairness.
Slugging is a mechanic that bypasses the other means for the killer to get to his objective done, so naturally I am asking, why aren't we talking about that? If more than one survivor escaped via hatch would we not put a timer on that and claim survivor objective can be done in less than 180 secs since they can bypass most gens?
I was arguing with someone else and you wanted to prove to me why it's important for the EGC to exist because survivor objectives can take as little as 180 seconds, so another phase should (?) exist. Why, probably for killer's benefit not? Why is it whataboutism if I mention that killers can down survivors and end the game without technically ending the game? Just because it is a risky play doesn't invalidate it, survivors don't have such a mechanic as basekit. Is it hard to quantify? Absolutely, but it is there. Hooking survivors isn't the only way win the game for killer, therefore achieving his objective. Doing gens for survivors though is mandatory if they wish to get a win as a team. And if reworked Mori ever made it to the game, my point would become even stronger because the game would end when the last survivor goes down, so the killers objective at that point could take as little as 45 seconds. It would only render it riskier because the game would actually give survivors a way to combat killer bypassing the hook mechanic. Hooks are more counterable for survivors than slugging especially if we go with the perkless scenario.
I'd like to believe somewhere higher in the post you could understand my point, because we view this from a significant different lens and are not arguing for the same things at all or even agree things should be the way they are or that they have a right to be this way.
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You do not understand the concept of the comparison at all. And you're right, we are absolutely looking at this from a different lens, so if you're unwilling to understand the comparison method I was using, there isn't much point in continuing.
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Now to say "bad move" is downgrade.
No matter how much you want to stay away from the facts, if the game reached EGC that's because the killer made some mistakes, or couldn't kill the survivors in time. You don't stumble upon EGC by accident, that means the survivors must have played (a little or mostly) better than the killer or the killer could not capitalize on their mistakes, or the killer made most mistakes.
The point of my original comment to another user was that EGC is earned by the survivors, when the killer gets to be in EGC by default. Yet, Endgame killers perks ARE stronger that endgame survivor perks, even if survivors are more likely to not get value of them because they can die earlier.
I am calling you biased because you are. You are very killer sided biased, as i am survivor sided. but even if you have no quarrel in calling me biased or weak or pitiful you cant take your own bias and call it deflection.
Dozens of your post advocating for killers and none for survivors, but you have no bias.
Defend broken overtuned perks like Eruption which clearly screw soloQ players , but you have no bias.
You can feel as superior as you want, telling others to reflect on their actions, but you are as biased as any killer can get.
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Nothing about anything I post is about trying to feel superior, its about trying to avoid argumentative posts like this one. I tried.
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With this mentality, when a killer starts losing and resorts to hook camping/tunneling the game should recognize this and remove his weapon, and reduce his speed to the same as a survivors. Going immersed when the game is going poorly is every bit a viable strategy as camping/tunneling.
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Then dont spent an entire paragraph telling me how biased i am, telling me to reflect if you dont want an argumentative post. You write of how neutral you want to be while at the same provoking and downgrading the ones you are writing.
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Killers receive benefits by default in EGC, see pallets. By the time survivors get to end game their only defensive resource has probably been used up trying to complete the gens and delaying the killers own objective. So if you did all 5 gens but you are out of pallets, the killer still benefits from you doing well. Healthstates can also count as resources.
They do say after all that killer is strongest at the end of the game and weakest at the start, no?
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I wasnt provoking or downgrading anything, you are just literally refusing to view things from a different perspective. I did truly want you to reflect on it, because its something that a lot of people do without realzing, and getting defensive and argumentative only makes things worse. Please stop this pointless arguing and either return to the topic, or stop pinging my posts, I have no intention of continuing this argument.
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complaining about hatch in 2022 is a selftell tbh. You already won the game if it comes down to a hatch coin flip and if you're really that egotistic into thinking that because the hatch decided to spawn closer to the survivor than you means you won less or that the survivor won, idk what to tell you.
Hatch is there so survivors have a reason to not just straight up afk once it's clear doing gens will be impossible.
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And that's why the hook grabs must stay, too. They are the killersx version of a 4% self unhook.
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They don't 'deserve' the 4k. Either they get it, or they don't. End of.
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No one "deserves" to get a kill or an escape, full stop.
Hatch is a good healthy mechanic for the game, because the games don't drag out for hours.
They don't "rob" Killers of kills, because a metric ton of Killers will just slug at 2 Survivors left to deny Hatch. I feel like THAT is an infinitely more annoying thing than Killers "losing" a kill because of Hatch existing.
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Hatch is just a crutch, I just prefer to think I won anyway and I do rarely try to find a hatch myself after 3rd sacrifice. But sometimes I do when surv bring hatch offering, it is somewhat fun.
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Y'all always begin these hypothetical scenarios in the worst way possible. "There's multiple generators left AND there's only 1 survivor." Obviously, that's different. But even at 2-3 people left they'll sometimes stop because they "feel" that it's hopeless, without even giving it their best shot. So what do we do? Just give in to their demands? My solution still solves the issue, and hasn't been disproven at all yet, that if you show the survivors' auras after a certain amount of time of doing nothing, now the game's no longer at a stand-still.
For every post that an alternative for hatch isn't provided, there's 2 posts defending hatch with a simple "YoU'rE EnTiTlEd 2 dA 4k!"
It wouldn't be for free because, once again, you're factoring out all of the scenarios where the killer was barely able to get 1 of the last 2 people because the gens were all done at the point anyway. So then the killer not only has to beat them to/patrol the exit gates, but they also have to watch out for hatch. That favors the survivor in almost every way.
But yes, that alternative would be better if it avoids giving the survivors like 4 chances to get out, baseline, after a hard fought match from the killer.
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These scenarios play out all day every day thousands of times. Some players give up too early and there is nothing we can do about that.
I do agree that survivors shouldn't be able to hide indefinitely doing nothing and should get crows under more conditions than staying completely stationary doing nothing. Crows are to easily circumvented. Your aura idea is pretty much the same thing as idle crows.
But that has nothing to do with the hatch and is not an alternative to the hatch.
If the survivors did well enough to get all the generators done, then they deserve a decent shot at escaping.
The kill rate is already around 60%, it'd probably be 75% or worse if they deleted the hatch.
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Your citing the kill rate is not helping your cause at all. I usually just give up against people who bring it up because they've taken 1 out-of-context stats drop and made it the basis of their "killer is too strong" arguments. The "high" kill rate does not give me any comfort as killer. I'm still facing the same sweats I've faced for months. Only difference is they now have those bad stats as ammo to validate more killer nerfs.
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I don't need to make a case. I am fairly certain the hatch is here to stay.
Without the hatch, even if the last survivor manages to finish the last gen they end up giving away their position with the gen pop and face a near-certain death.
If you want to convince BHVR to do away with the hatch you need to make a better case. I haven't seen anyone provide a good alternative to the hatch. If you've seen one point me to it. Some vague "show survivor auras if they're not doing anything" idea just isn't it.
I play a lot of SoloQ and the hatch is one of the few things that make it even remotely bearable. Most of the time the killer finds it first because they move faster, don't have to worry about getting caught and can zone the survivor. It can make the 1v1 at the end of the game interesting if they don't slug the second-last survivor.
Do you not feel like you've won if you only get a 3k?
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I keep it vague only because I'm fairly certain that specifying it is pointless, because everyone's so against the idea already, I'd be wasting my time. It's why I only reply these days, because I'm not gonna propose an idea I had fleshed out and everything with multiple paragraphs, only for the forums to not display it, have people respond "lol, no", or have wannabe intellectuals breaking down how every sentence I said was wrong. That ship has sailed.
Y'all always say "solo queue needs it" but you're focusing on the wrong thing there. If solo needs it, isn't that a matchmaking problem? Why not push for that instead?
Some matches a 3k is fine. But others, where I've fought really hard to barely get more than a draw, it's just not fair. The 4k is a possibility in the game, so why's it so hard to pull off, or so taboo to want? It sets a bad precedent, the way people talk about it. "Just stop being ungrateful and settle for the 3k." Why not settle for a 2k then, or a 1k, since "it doesn't even matter that much?" Or, you gotta love it, they pull the "it's just a video game" card, while they're equally invested in the game since they're always demanding killer nerfs. It's double standards all around.
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I explained a rather detailed mechanic to replace hatch, so either you didn't read it or you just ignored it... so those 90% really don't apply here.
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Technically when I see a killer that tunnel one out of the game before 2 Gens done (or even 5 Gens still stand), I will drop a pallet, make noise for killer to come, and I stand next to the hook asking to kill me.
I see you desperate for 4K, so here is a free kill.
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Which is another reason to replace the whole thing with something like a final chase, so there is no reason slug the survivor anymore... I don't think it is a healthy mechanic since it does not take anything into account other than luck in principle at least... Yeah you can drag the chase out long enough to maybe reach the hatch, but in general you have no idea where it spawned so you're just guessing where to run...
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Like I said before... endgame chase... Auras are shown to both until a chase gets started or they are a certain distance away from each other and then a timer starts, when the timer ends the game ends... The survivor (and maybe even the killer) get increased bp gains for that chase... If the survivor can stay alive for the entire chase they gain either a huge amount of bp or even an escape... That way both sides have to earn it... The specifics are up for debate let's say if some pallets respawn ... let's say the amound of broken pallet's is below... 20% or so then it respawns some pallets spread around the map or so... Just to make it not too easy...
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Fair, especially when killer queues are long and survivor queues are basically instant... He can go wait in queue for another 10 minutes just for no gameplay again if decides he needs it so bad...
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Yeah, I hear and feel that. I've made a few suggestion threads with fully fleshed out ideas that I think are amazing only for those threads to get no responses and be on the 2nd page in an hour. Meanwhile someone posts a hot take and the thread just buzzes. I'm on my last strike and when the hammer does come down I am not going to miss this place.
When I play killer I almost never slug for the 4k and and fine getting the 3k in those spots. But it does happen often enough where I find the hatch first and secure the 4k. To me it doesn't feel like an unfair mechanic and I actually like the quick end to the match when the survivor finds that hatch and immediately jumps in. It doesn't bother me.
As survivor I recently had a game on Garden of Pain where I outlasted my team and ran the killer all over the map staying ahead of him searching for the hatch until I lead him into the center of the map in front of the house and he heard it first and closed it. It was a fun time, even though the ending sucked. Luck is a huge factor in DbD and I happened to get unlucky against a killer that couldn't catch me. For him I am sure he felt satisfied. "Finally! Dir Rebecca!"
I don't really like your idea. It takes the surprise of finding the hatch out of the endgame. I don't think an endgame timer on the final chase would be a good mechanic and I think it would be decidedly survivor-sided. Unless the killer has managed to destroy every pallet on the map the survivor can easily make that last chase last long be holding W and predropping everything.
I think it'd be much better if DbD introduced a full on 1v1 mode, which would play out similar.
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I don't think it should be luck dependant to get out or not ... As for it being survivor sided that fully depends on how ressourcefull the team was and usually the map should be rather dry when 3 survivors already died... But I fully agree that predropping could be problematic... But then again in the end it would not necessarily be survivor sided since I stated it would be an option where the survivor can get bonus bloodpoints and not necessarily escape... And if the survvior knows that he may not have enough pallets if he just pre drops everything he is needed to be more ressourcefull... In the end I think it is still a better system then who gets lucky today...
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It's not completely luck dependent. While the hatch spawn is random (barring offerings) players can know common hatch spawn locations and there is a strategy to give yourself a better chance to find the hatch as killer. When you know where the survivor is you can try to get ahead of them and zone them into places where you know the hatch is not. If the killer doesn't know where the survivor is they still have the advantage because they are faster and don't have to worry about dying.
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yes it is. it can straight up spawn at your feet.
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terrible idea, stealthy plays are possible, wake up and sole survivor do exist, the reamaining survivor can still escape with very fast gate opening. so no.
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A player can get lucky and flop a royal flush in poker. That doesn't mean that poker is a 100% luck game.
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I'll take a dive at this idea.
1: The Hatch system already exists. A new system would be new programming, animations, etc. So even if your system is an on-par alternative it's not really time worthwhile.
2: Randomness is not inherently bad and adds excitement. By the time we get to this chase end game I've probably already figured out whether I'll win it or not. As a survivor I could be playing the best killer in the world and the hatch still gives me a chance to play for something exciting.
3: It doesn't really fit the theme. The goal of survivors is to escape. Outlasting the killer doesn't really fit.
4: Some killers/survivors would be clearly better at it than others. This exists with hatch already, but this would magnify it. Chase based killers would have a substantial advantage.
5: Keys would have to be totally reworked. I kind of hate the idea of hatch based items so I don't have a problem with that, but it would be one other thing that would need to be taken care of.
6: I'm not sure what would happen under your scenario if the gens are done and one person is left.
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Even if you know common hatch spawns that does not make it less luck dependant... You're not guaranteed that it is one of those with a higher probability or something like that...Yeah sure you are a bit faster than survivors.. But in the end it is still mostly luck...
"ignoring stealth mechanics"... the idea is that you see each other no matter what and you obviously cannot open the gate and just leave... That would be ridiculous... You are forced into the chase...
In poker you can calculate the chances of winning by taking the cards that are in the game into account and the probability of certain combinations that are higher than yours... How does that apply to dbds hatchspawn? If there is no offering for it you have no clue where it could be and there is no higher probability for one over the other hatchspawn... Which makes it completely random... Terrible example man...
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- I think we could neglect that because I don't think effort for the devs is an argument for or against any game change at all...
- I don't really consider running around aimlessly hoping to find the hatch or not exciting to be honest, but that's just personal preference I guess... I think it is terrible game design when every person has a decent chance to win against the best player in the game no matter how bad they are... How frustrating might that be xD Loosing to some self caring claudette in the corner that did nothing all game long and then got out because the hatch spawned below her feet...
- It 100% fits the theme... From a lore standpoint these trials exist because the entitiy wants to have something to watch... An exciting match... And from my point of view the most exciting thing to watch are chases... In the end the entity probably even wants survivors to die, since it is mad at the killer otherwise if he perfroms too bad... But then again you can get brutal or maybe even ruthless even when not killing a single survivor... So I would say the overall theme is to please the entity...
- Because of the problem with killers that have better or worse chase I would make the timer dependant on the killer you're going against...
- Keys already have great purpose, it is just that nobody uses them luckily... The aura reading is nuts... With the right perks you can have wallhacks for over a minute... Absolutely ridiculous xD Also the whole hatch opening thing is annoying enough... It got a lot better with the patches but insta opening was just annoying af
- Debatable... I think both options are viable 1. starting the endgame chase 2. being able to open the gate... I would say that opening the gate is the better shot at this... Since the last person standing would not be able to finish the last gen, unless they finish it while the last player besides them is dying on hook, because otherwhise the endgame chase would start... But if for example we have the case that one of the two last survivors gets hooked and dies after the gens are finished then I don't see any reason why the other one should not be able to go for the exit gate...
But as I said, the specifics of my idea are up for debate and we can go into further details to fix issues that we come across...
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True, hatch escape is lazy and there are survivors that gloat about it, pity escape should be removed
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thats why is a terrible idea, why do u want the survivor have 0 chance of escaping?. when the game is about to end there is no resource for the survivor to use, and we all know the game is not balanced towards 1 v 1 either, so ther survivor is mostly dead without hope at all. the hatch is fine as also is fine the stealth at the end.
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Can you at least read what I wrote before so I don't have to repeat myself? I even said that if the map was too dry some pallets could respawn up until a specific % amount to make it fair...
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And what do you mean it is not balanced towards the 1v1? In general there is always something the survivor can do in a 1v1 situation to prolong the chase... Despite things like bloodlust that are basically meant to make it easier for even bad killers to get hits... And killers with stronger chases would have a lower time the survivor needs to stay alive for... Which you would know if you read what I wrote before...
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So because you killed three survivors and stopped gens you deserve the 4k? Okay, when the survivors power five gens and open the exit gate do you desist in killing them? They deserve the escape right?
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the difference being that gates and gen positions are already clear from the start... They can play with those in mind... Whereas the hatch just spawns completely random just when it is only one survivor left... That is far more rng than the other thing don't you agree?
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The entire crux of the hatch argument comes down to lamenting shared agency: People often want the hatch because "my team was so bad I never had a chance," when its intention was to prevent infinite hide and seek scenarios. I think something needs to fit for the former more than the latter, and even though we have things like the EGC now to facilitate that the hatch can still have a place. It needs to challenge the former mentality in the process though, it needs to be earned rather than granted.
There are any number of ways you could do that, like the key spawning idea, or even something like having it be visible to either the killer or survivor if they've pipped by that point. You could brainstorm plenty of ideas to be able to salvage the mechanic and address both its uses and grievances, but almost anything would be an improvement over the half assed updates its gotten to get to its current state.
...Now I need to hope I didn't just monkey paw and even worse hatch mechanic into existence. D:
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You and the one I quoted in my poker analogy post missed the keyword in my original post. I said the hatch is "not completely luck-dependent" which is true but you both somehow read that as "not luck-dependent." Yes the hatch is luck-dependent, but it's not completely luck-dependent. If you know its spawn locations and use certain strategies you can give yourself better odds of finding the hatch before the your opponent. But it is still 90% luck.
That's why the poker analogy is apt. In poker you can know the odds, but you still have to get lucky.
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I don't even know if there is a limited amount of spawn location for the hatch in DBD... According to the wiki it is random:
Therefore it is still completely luck dependant... If the hatch can spawn randomly basically everywhere then there is no strategy to go around the spots it can spawn, because it can spawn basically everywhere... If you have a source for your claim that hatch has only a limited amount of spawns per map I'd be glad to see that.
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