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The Knight seriously needs a nerf. The exploits are too much and too common.
I know people often are annoyed when people say to nerf the new killer 'because they don't know how to play against them yet' and while I feel that sometimes rings true, this is b.s.
Throughout all the games I have played against the Knight (maybe a dozen in total) there is not a single killer who exploits the game more than him. Blame it on the community, blame it on the individual killer all you want, but the developers LET this happen, and they're not going to care to fix it.
I've played killer, I've played survivor, I can tell you for a fact it is a killer-oriented game. That's not too big of a problem though, the win rate shouldn't be 50-50 and should be more 20-80 in favour of the killers, I'm not disagreeing. But I have not once won against the knight unless they are giving the game to the survivors once.
The main reason? Not skill. Not because the survivors are bad. The knight's are CONSTANTLY camping/tunnelling/slugging/any other exploit they can get away with. Even twice in the matter of 3 games in one night, the Knight has put someone on the hook, camped and used his green sphere to find others while staying put. Done this to every survivor.
What I hate is that the green sphere with the additional knight has no boundaries. Unless you have a few specific perks, you can't outrun it, you can't pull pallets down, you are 100% going to be hit. And the killer can just repeatedly do this while camping the person on the hook. If anyone goes for this person, they have to look out for the knight and his little buddies he sends. Over and over and over again. I'm not kidding when I say it has exclusively been a knight problem, the exploits are so easy to get away with with him, and that's why it's so abused. It's the least fun I've had playing, where you go on the hook once and you might as well not bother to get anyone on the hook either, because you're dead. Even when I think of how to counter him and this method of play, there's nothing. I'm not going to bother going for players on the hook now when I play against the knight because it is every game. The knight needs a nerf cause I'm not even sure I care to play against him. It'd be different if they played the game properly, but the knight is so clearly the biggest 'toxic and exploiting' killer that he is the easiest go-to of any toxic player, and that's the problem.
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Camping, tunneling & slugging aren't exploits. An exploit is when you abuse an unintentional game mechanic for your own benefit, like the current inner healing bug that's now been disabled.
I've played against him a fair bit and I can't really say he camps anymore than any other killer I face. Bubba still tops it for me, I reckon like 98% of the bubba's I see basically just face camp.
That being said he is both quite boring to both face & play. I don't really like that most of my games with him turn into 25-30 min games when facing decent survivors. Sadly his chase potential is kinda slow and you kinda get forced into playing the long game with a 3-4 gen defence.
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If you're being hunted you can make the guard ######### off by unhooking
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Sigh.
Okay, I'm not sure what I just read, but let's have a go.
- This is not a 'killer oriented' game.
- Slugging, camping and tunneling are not exploits.
- Camping and tunneling have never been less rewarding than they are now.
- The knight is mediocre at both.
- There is no reason a knight's summons should be effective at all at what you're describing.
- 2 games in 3 is not any sort of sample size.
- Slugging is scheduled for a change.
- Knight is not a good killer overall.
- If you're really struggling with knights doing this, grab a team. There are tons on the BHVR Discord looking for people.
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I feel like most people don't know this.
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You can’t see survivors as the green sphere, so if you see the orb coming just stand still and he can’t track you.
The guards are also incredibly slow, so unless it is assassin they will never hit you if you just run forward.
If the Knight is just camping and spamming the guards, wait until he is in his orb form and then unhook. The guard will die after you unhook.
Yes he is annoying when he camps and tunnels, but every killer can do that and a lot are way better at it then Knight (Bubba, Nurse, Hillbilly). He is pretty weak right now, a nerf is the last thing he needs. Camping and tunneling should be nerfed, not Knight.
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If you think the developers want the Knight to use exploits and don't care to fix it, then why would you think they would nerf him? And how do you explain the multiple hotfixes to his exploits?
Camping, tunnelling, and slugging are not exploits.
The Knight can't even see you while he's using the green sphere, but you can see the green sphere. The amount of information you have, coupled with how it takes several seconds for the guard to even actually spawn, makes it extremely difficult for a Knight player to actually spawn a guard on top of you to have them chase you. The general consensus seems to be that his guards are just a bad anti-loop. Also, nothing about the orb prevents you from dropping pallets, in fact you can actually stun the orb by dropping a pallet on it and it stuns the Knight himself.
Once again, nothing you mentioned is an exploit.
The main counter to his power is simply holding W. With the amount of info you get and how slow the power is, you can generally escape it with relative ease. Even if it actually starts chasing you, it takes a while just to actually start following you, and 2 of the 3 guards are almost exactly the same speed as you, with poor pathfinding (often getting stuck on walls).
The Knight is honestly probably one of the worst killers, if you want to camp you're almost definitely better off just playing Leatherface.
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I don't even know how they would change him as the entire problem is his design in general. It is the same issue with a character like Twins, the fundamental design of the character encourages the most unpleasant and unfun strategies and only a complete redesign could make them less unpleasant to play against
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He needs a rework.
his power is really good at exploiting unfun game mechanics but ######### at playing nice.
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Knight isn't even that good. Wdym he needs a nerf?
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This is exactly what I feared- the devs gave campers another option. Sigh. They really had it right with PTB Reassurance. It felt like it was designed to punish campers. I don’t understand why they catered to the one or two players who were going to be kept in the game by a 3 man team trolling them on hook with it. Wasn’t worth it IMO.
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This seems to be a skill problem. Maybe try playing as the Knight, to see how his power works and where his weaknis is. Knight is hardly C tier. Currently he´s fighting for the crown of being the weakest killer.
You can outrun 2 of 3 guards by just running into one direction.
The guards dissapear when you unhook a survivor or grab the flag pole. So camping with his guards is actually wasting his power.
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i stopped reading at "I've played killer, I've played survivor, I can tell you for a fact it is a killer-oriented game"
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These are not exploits by any means. You can hook trade against Knights, just like you can against any killer without an insta down. If you are struggling with that, its a skill issue. After unhooking the guards dissapear anyway, so you will not get two-tapped. The only thing Knight is really good at is holding 3-gens, but thats a perk issue, not the killer power.
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I love how guard ground minion spotted me on second floor on dead saloon and flew to me to hit me. Ofc every guard killer I met camps the hooked person with their guards. Imagine Nemesis Zombies able to fly and always relatively fast plus get past pallets? Nobody thinks thats just too insane? You should atleast be able to stun them with a pallet or let them go around if you put the pallet there and not ignore everything. Otherwise Nemesis needs buff for his zombies too. I noticed they buffed guard minions, making their surveillance range wider since they walk further.
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Lmao.
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I agree, there's a lot of killers who need serious nerfing and killers who need serious buffing (Like why the hell would someone choose Trapper or fun billy when you have blight nurse artist or in this case knight). The power level difference between some of them is astonishing.
Also lmfao at all the people defending Knight saying he's not good.
Same goes to people saying the game is survivor sided or that vs'ing knight is a skill issue, like bruh... how is it a skill issue when all survivors can even do is hold W until they die.
I miss the old days where killers weren't loop-denying 5heads with a Press M2 to win option. Even more when the forums weren't a bunch of entitled 1 siders completely biased in their own opinions entirely overlooking raw facts (looking at the "this game is survivor sided" clowns🤡).
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it ain't even close to first release
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I think it needs to be made clear that the word exploit has a definition other than reportable and bannable cheating, because some people obviously don't seem to know that fact and therefore jump to conclusions.
To excessively use a frowned upon method of playing the game in order to win is obviously, to anyone that graduated basic education, EXPLOITING an unfair advantage. Slugging, specifically, can be referred to as an exploit in both ways, because we know the devs are trying to figure out a fair way to fix this unfair and unfun mechanic. It is clear they intend to stop those players that are overusing this exploit as a means to not only win, but to try to punish and torture their opponents.
Now, is the knight the best killer in the game, no, but is he the best at camping, tunneling, and slugging? Maybe. However, I don't think he needs nerfs, what we need is more punishment to dissuade against camping and to end slugging completely. At that point he will probably need buffs. It would be nice if there was an in game reason not to tunnel as well. I've brought it up in the past that maybe the killer should lose % bp if they hook the same survivor twice in a row, and give those bp to a killed survivor if they are tunneled to death.
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First of all, these aren't exploits. An exploit is taking advantage of something that is unintended. Camping and Tunneling are fully intended game mechanics and thats been stated multiple times by the devs. Is it fun? No, and hopefully one day the devs will come up with a solution to reduce its effectiveness and not make it as necessary in some scenarios.
Second of all, while he's in Summon Mode he does have boundaries. First one is he can't see Survivors but much like The Spirit he can still hear them. Second one is he can only draw a path up to 32m in length (42m with an add on). You can also clearly tell that he's in Summon Mode thanks to a distinct animation of him planting his sword into the ground, meaning you are free to go for the save and don't have to worry about being grabbed. "Oh, but he can just let go of Summon Mode the moment he see's the unhook and get a free hit that way!" Same can be said with literally every single killer. In fact I'd argue he's probably one of the worst campers out since his power doesn't assist him in doing so at all. If he sets up a Guard next to a hook, well the Guard will stop a hunt/disappear the moment you go for the unhook. He's not like Hillbilly or Cannibal who can easily down not only the rescuer, but the saved as well.
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This games balance hasn't been consistent since first launch. Consistency implies that its stayed relatively the same. I'd argue that nowadays the intended design of the game is killer sided because the intended design of the game is for Solo Q, not SWF. Pretty much any killer can beat a full squad of solo's.
What I think the issue is, are maps. A killers viability can be very hard to determine because of how inconsistent maps are. In a game like this you're obviously going to have characters that do better on some maps compared to others, any game that has characters with different abilities and maps have this. But in most cases they're extremes.
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If the guard has direct line of sight to you and you're in the radius, it will jump to you. It also does so if you're in the radius and make a noise notification.
Nobody thinks that's too insane, no, because Nemesis zombies don't contribute in most matches. There's a reason Nemesis has an actual power that can explode pallets and whatnot, he is objectively the better killer. They can only fly when they first detect you, which is rarely relevant. The guards are not really "always relatively fast" either, 2/3 are about as fast as the survivor (whereas the killer is 15% faster).
Yes, Nemesis should get a buff for his zombies, they are total trash most of the time. At the very least they should fix the zombie pathfinding, almost every single match a zombie will somehow get stuck on a wall and not move for the rest of the match.
He isn't good. Holding W does not cause you to die or it wouldn't be counterplay. I understand you keep losing to him, but it's not the killer's fault, it's yours.
I can't believe you actually unironically compared Knight to Blight and Nurse and implied they were a similar power level. Wow.
Exploiting definitely isn't "excessively using a frowned upon method of playing the game". Slugging is not an exploit.
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use of elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it."
An exploit is explicitly the abuse of a bug in the game. Camping, tunneling, and slugging are not bugs, and in fact the devs have condoned those behaviors before, clearly proving beyond a shadow of a doubt they are not exploits.
In addition, playing the game in a way that makes you mad is not an unfair advantage.
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The word exploit can mean taking advantage of an advantageous situation. It doesn't always mean cheating. In the case of slugging it is clear that I, and evidenced by their plans to change this, BHVR as well, disagree with YOU. It is not working how either of us think it should, and using it is clearly an exploit that needs to be fixed.
Your opinion on the topic doesn't change those facts. You are wrong. Undeniably completely 100% wrong. Slugging can be exploited, and it is being exploited.
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He's already posted the definition of an Exploit in a video game - you don't get to claim that your personal definition is the one true answer, especially with that hyperbolic claim of "You are wrong. Undeniably completely 100% wrong"
Nope, you're the one who is wrong as has been demonstrated multiple times.
The word "Exploit" has multiple meanings (It can even mean Daring Adventures, but I doubt you meant that version) and so the definition that explicitly denotes the meaning *in the context of video games* is the correct one, by definition!
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LOL
I could go more in depth, but someone else has already torn your argument apart.
Sorry, hun, your opinion on the topic doesn't change the facts. It sounds like you might be undeniably completely 100% wrong.
I guess according to your own logic, you must not have graduated basic education.
Next you'll tell me that proving you wrong is exploiting an unfair advantage in the debate 🤭
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Also, if slugging were an exploit, Knock Out, Deerstalker, Tenacity, Exponential, Unbreakable, those would all not exist. It is more than obvious it's an intended game mechanic given it's existed since the game was made and they have literally built perks on the concept of its existence. They are updating it, but they aren't removing it, because it isn't a bug or exploit.
Just like tunneling. They added basekit abilities to help counteract it, but they did not remove it, and they have endorsed it in the past, and there are multiple perks to help against it, which there would not be if it were an exploit or bannable.
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It's twins all over again. The only way to play him is to be boring.
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The guards can't be used for camping, in the moment the unhooking animation starts the guard disappear, they can be used for information at best, for a killer to know a survivor is about to unhook a mate very few seconds before. In fact the Nemesis zombies you mentioned are better campers if the hooked survivor have the bad luck of a zombie wandering around the hook and the saver don't have a flashlight.
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This post is the perfect example of why people are annoyed when you ask a new killer to be nerfed before learning to play against them
Most of the stuff you said is wrong
The knight doesn't need a nerf, they need a fix
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Knight's power doesn't work. That's why people try to find situations where they can get out on top with his power. Sadly camping is the Knight's biggest strength. Everything else is just a weaker version of other killers' powers.
Though camping, tunneling and slugging are no exploits, mind you.
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The last time they posted stats about SWF, over half of everyone playing Survivor (57% if I remember correctly) were Solo's. Thats not "very few" in fact thats the majority. Duo's was rougly 25%, and then the rest are 3 and 4 mans.
These were posted 2 or 3 years ago, but I have no reason to believe these would change too much
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If u take a look at his Killrates (BHVR is interested in Killrates, not Hookrates), he rather needs more buffs.
Sorted by Pickrate:
Sorted by Killrate (Knight is bottom 3, only Hillbilly and Twins are less deadlier):
(Nightlight - inofficial Stats from users who record their data)
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The thing is, there is less pick rate with Twins and Hillbilly. Knight has by far the worst stats imo and I tested it myself too.
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Turns out the Knight does actually have exploits associated with him, so he may need a killswitch pending some fixes.
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Just Another " Hey i dont know how to Play against this Killer so plz nerf even when he isnt that strong " Post
This is the same like ppl Calling Knight OP because of his Antiloop and then the same ppl just standing Inside the Loop so the Killer and his Guard comes from both sides
Also tunneling, camping , slugging isnt a Exploit it is a Tactic
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You should play knight against a team of dead hards and see if you think Knight needs a nurf. I had guards lose around 10 chases per match in a handful of games last night, with one match consisting of 7 dead hards ffs. His best strat I've found is a combination of 3 gen and proxy camping hooked survivors (hook swapping)
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I don't think tunneling/camping or slugging are exploits. It's very toxic and unfun to do as a killer and the only people who do this are upset about something or desperate for BP. Behavior has tried to lesson campers by adding a new character with a perk that allows 30 more seconds on a hook. But it's a useless perk for the most part.
This means, Behavior is well aware that camping sucks, yet makes a Killer whose kit allows him to camp anyone he wants. What I don't understand is (and I see this a lot), is when someone is clearly being hooked no one punishes the killer. Punish the killer by rushing gens. Too many times, I see survivors try and unhook and trade etc, that no gens are getting done and the killer ends up winning. Killer is laughing at you because you played right into his/her hands. Just stop trying to save 1 person and win the game if the killer wants to camp and tunnel. Slugging is the easiest to overcome in my opinion. It just depends on when the slugging starts and it's usually towards the end of a game where there are still 3-4 people OR when there is only 2 people left with no hope of gens getting done.
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Killers that need to be nerfed-All of them
Killer perks that need to be nerfed-All of them
Killer speeds -80%(with t3 bl 85%)
Maps that need to be made more survivor friendly and add more pallets and windows-All of them.
Survivor perks that need to be buffed -All of them
Number of killers wanted per game-0
How long should gens take-5 seconds(with bnp and tool box instant)
How many hooks on map-0
I think that pretty much sums up the survivor way of thinking.
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In regards to this post; thank you to some who have offered tips. Some things I just genuinely didn't gather about the Knight, which is fine and I'll attempt to use them.
As for exploits, obviously there's some discourse about the definition in this thread. Call it an exploit don't call it an exploit, I would assume people understood what I meant by it. Exploit just feels a lot easier to say rather than 'using a game mechanic to the detriment of the game'. Which is what the Knight does.
Also, I agree there is a huge skill-play issue with killers, for example, this problem doesn't even exist with 'the twins' because it is much harder to operate. I've never found an issue with the twins. But, now why would anyone ever play the twins when they can just play the knight, someone who is much easier to 'use a game mechanic to the detriment of the game'.
My main issues with this is the environment that the knight has been creating. And now, has been much more than just a few games. It's the point of -- people are not going to take players off the hook anymore because the knight camps them while spam-sending his guards to areas around. It becomes the easiest way to camp because you can still get hits on other players outside of the knight himself.
Further, it's up for debate whether this is survivor sided or killer sided and I guess it does depend on the situation. If there's a party of 4 survivors? Sure, I guess it's much easier to be a survivor than a killer. But a solo-Q survivor with 3 other solo Q's? Jeez.... killer sided, but depends on the killer again. As I've said, I've played killer, and if there's 3 killers that I can say I comfortably win with every single time unless I let some players live, its legion, the wraith, ghost face. Those 3 are consistently the easiest and best killers to use if you want to win. When it's those killers, it's killer sided HEAVY.
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And just another comment as I read the rest on this post; guess the knight doesn't necessarily need a nerf, but the problems that persist while playing the knight need a nerf. I can win against the knight, a lot of you are right, he isn't a strong killer per se, but he does ruin the game. So long as the knights I've been playing it seems, even if it is just one person on the hook, once you are on, the game feels over for you. I've been on the hook and stayed on the hook until death, cutting my game short and no-fun at all, and I've also survived while he's camped others on the hook, leaving their games no fun and mine too
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How to know if someone is completely new to the game:
When Legion, Wraith and Ghost Face are the "easiest and best killers to use if you want to win"...
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ok buddy lol
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Camping with him is a weaker version of other killers too, Bubba does the job way better. Hillbilly too.
All 3 of those killers you mentioned are like, C tier killers. They're okay, but they don't tend to do well against good survivors. If you want a killer that makes a match "killer sided HEAVY", look at Nurse or Blight.
People feel forced to rely on crappy, but fairly reliable, strategies to secure any amount of kills on the Knight because he isn't very good. Ironically, making him better would likely reduce the amount of camping people do with him. If it seems like there's hope to get more than one kill, people won't camp (unless they're just being toxic, but you could just play Bubba and that would be better and easier).
He's right, they're only free wins in low MMR against newer players who scream in real life when a killer comes out of stealth.
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- Nemesis main power is his tentacles not his zombies
- Guards disappear after an unhook so aren’t effective at camping
- Guards only go through floors and walls if you make a loud noise
- Knight was nerfed recently, making it so he has to have a meter or two of free space to use his power
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