Please just remove the hatch. Its a free escape.
Hatch is just an annoying and outdated feature at this point. Just have endgame activate and power gates instead of a boring hide and seek. Not to mention that unless you find it first (which is basically entirely determined by chance) you arent getting that kill. Cant imagine how veterans feel with how hatch standoffs were....
Hatch rewards survivors for failing their objectives and punishes you for succeeding yours. A 4k is practically never guaranteed, but if the killer worked for it at least let there be a fighting chance. A fighting chance, not a "lemme walk around and hope I get to it first" chance. I get it, its unreasonable for the last surv to do the last gens and escape, so just power gates and give the surv some advantage where you dont automatically lose once in chase. Anything but hatch. Im so sick of all my amazing games ending a 4 gen 3k when I know I worked so much harder than that last survivor for my win. while i consider a 2-3k a win, it'd be nice if we could all stop being bullshitted by hatch at this point.
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that changes anyway with the mori update.nope i was mistakensupply the gates with electricity directly, so that you have the standoff there.
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I like hatch. There's a game to play right up until the very end.
That said, I'd like it if exit gates weren't either "I can see both switches from one spot" or "literal opposite sides of suffocation pit". Or if the difficulty thereof wasn't based on whether or not you're Blight or a 110 with no mobility.
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Ahhh the usual, fresh accounts with the most extreme takes on topics. 😌
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Please calm down and understand that nobody is going to cut down a cm of your PP if you don't 4k every single match.
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Hmmm where to start......oh yea..... ahem.
The hatch is considered a PITTY escape and dosnt affect their MMR in either a positive or negative way.
The hatch isn't outdated it's a way for the match to end without either side to hold the game hostage. Either the Survivor finds the hatch and the game ends or the Killer finds it and starts the EGC and end the game via sacrifice or escape through doors.
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Horrible idea. If you want to 4k, just slug and look for the last survivors.
They might be hiding in one of the lockers in the basement, or in corners.
Just saying.
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Unless you want to play an extended game of hide and seek with the last survivor every game, it's fine as is
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Some people like hide and seek in their horror game.
Some people also like a mechanic that isn’t just about patrolling Auras in the Killers favor.
While it should be balanced competitively (for a quality experience), Trial gameplay loops shouldn’t be designed around competing “for the win”. It should try to stick to horror, and part of that is the final survivor still having a chance, so there is tension on the outcome, rather than just doubling down on a 4K.
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Yes. This exactly.
The whole game only functions because survivors have hope that they can escape. Take that away and, well, that's a good way to get even more people to disconnect.
And from a horror genre perspective, nearly every horror movie ends with the final girl/sole survivor barely escaping death even though the rest of the group died.
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Survivors need hatch to make the game more interesting. It's objectively a good mechanic.
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because losing the match and getting a free win is interesting...
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dbd is really only a horror game in name only, as the actual gameplay represents a more aggressive and forceful design. Only baby survivors hide in lockers and play for stealth, while experienced survivors will run in a circle and occasionally press space for 5 gens.
i dont really remember laurie strode walking around a rock for 2 minutes and dropping a pallet when michael got too close. The argument of "its fine because its like in the movies" is a flimsy one at best due to the large variance in mediums. You cant properly compare a videogame with horror elements to a picture film designed specifically to scare.
I'm just sick of playing out a game to near completion, 3 dead and 1 left, for the one to just happen to get lucky with hatch spawn and escape.
(on rereading i think i came across as condescending to loopers, which was unintentional! looping is the only skill expressive surv gameplay)
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honestly I think endgame is just in a completely boring and/or stressful state for both sides, survivors have to worry about egc if their soloq teammates didnt 99, and killers have to deal with basekit bt being a free escape in egc. and both sides have to deal with the boring af search for hatch, just for either the survivor to just leave without any effort at all or the killer to just close it for either a free kill or a free loss depending on gate spawns.
my point is, endgame is just so bad. gate spawns are inconsistent and will always be favored to either side, and they never factor in killer mobility. a blight with double speed will be indomitable compared to a huntress who doesnt have coconutrts aim. EGC timer is pointless beyond hatch scenarios because of 99ing, while changing it is a slippery slope to hatch standoffs and games being held hostage.
its just another example of behavior designing themselves into a corner, just like dead hard, decisive, old mettle, old pain res+dms, and the new gen kick meta.
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Is say it's more accurate to say that baby survivors default to stealth for survival. Stealth is a tool that always has it's uses, and even the most experienced survivors aren't announcing their presence to the killer while setting up a flashlight save, for example.
Hiding can often still be the correct play, it's just that survivors do it tactically instead of out of fear as they gain experience.
I never said 'it's fine if it's like the movies,' you're reading way too much into what I said. I mention the sole survivor as being thematically appropriate for the genre, that's it. You also didn't seem to catch that I also said the entire game is based on survivors having a hope of escape, and the hatch is basically one of the last things to strive for at the end of a losing game.
It's super bizarre tho that you use Laurie strode as the example here. She is the primary example of using improvised weapons, whatever is at hand, to try and fend off the killer. The perk decisive strike is a literal homage to that moment, and it would be entirely accurate for her to drop a pallet on the killer if it was the only thing available.
If you want to nit pick this point, it wouldn't make sense for the resident evil survivors to have guns in DBD, simply because they're armed in the source games. There are a lot of empty holsters in DBD for a reason.
Personally, I think you're too hung up on 'the one that got away'. A 3k is a solid killer win. If you don't agree, then slug for the 4k like everyone else does. Killers can already choose to essentially completely prevent hatch from spawning, right now, base kit.
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I main killer and whenever I get to the hatch portion of the game I count it as a win regardless if the survivor escapes through it or not, to the point I'll just carry survivors over to it, because it's an RNG mechanic, which takes no skill.
If you stop survivors from doing all gens then count it as a win even if a survivor escapes through hatch.
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"free"
I don't think you understand this game well enough to complain about it.
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Please just removed NOED
NOED rewards killers for failing their objectives and punishes you for succeeding yours
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You realize its still a win if 1 survivor gets hatch right?
Other than challenges or achievements is it really the end of the world?
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i entirely agree. i actually basically only post here when im really frustrated, regret it each time. prob gonna delete acc since im basically just throwing useless takes into the pile at this point. thanks for the reply though! really detailed and compelling
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agreed, crutch perk
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Without the hatch, the final Survivor would just Immerse for an hour and wait out the game clock.
Because yes; the match ends after an hour.
NoED rewards Killers planning ahead and punishes Survivors who don't do totems.
If you're going to whine, at least don't lie while you do it. Then again, the only 'ammo' Survivors have against NoED is flat out lies.
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Ig its to give the last survivor a bit of hope. Wouldn't be fun if they just started rushing actions to get your attention because they're screwed anyway.
Another thing: You got a 3k, you "won". Just take it
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How is losing 'planning ahead'?
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They are planning for the end game.
Just because entitled whiners call it 'losing' when 5 gens pop does not mean it's a fact. Sorry mate.
BTW; It's not 'losing'. Survivors did not win just because the exit gates are powered. This is an arbitrary win condition they invented to claim it's a flaw in NoED when it's just Survivors being entitled whiners.
The Killer did not 'lose' just because the exit gates lit up. So NoED does not 'reward losing'. Because the Killer has not lost until the Survivors exit the map.
That is, literally, how the game works. Survivors don't get to invent some mid-point and claim THAT is when Killers lost. Cope.
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And when survivors see the killer close the hatch almost right after it spawns we kind of feel the complete opposite. You want the last survivor to be thrown into a door fight with the killer every time it comes down to a 1v1. Not sure if you've ever tried to win that fight but its not easy and in my opinion heavily favors the killer. The old key system was better in my opinion. I don't like the current hatch system, but this suggestion isn't the answer.
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There is no planning. You just put on a perk and you're gucci. You get rewarded just for having the perk
I did not say the killer lost, but that they are in a losing situation. A situation you typically cannot win. NOED is basically a free comeback card in those situations
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You get rewarded just for having the perkLet's ignore that it can be deactivated before it activates.
I did not say the killer lost, but that they are in a losing situation. A situation you typically cannot win.Wrong. I've played, and seen, many games where Survivors lost before gates could be opened. Plus; the same could be said for any Second-Chance Perk; You were caught. You should have lost. You did not. I guess every second-chance Perk rewards losing.
NOED is basically a free comeback card in those situationsYes, 'free', ignoring that Survivors can cleanse it before it activates, or after it activates, and can still open the gates and leave. And it does not hook Survivors, or chase Survivors or find Survivors.
But sure, it's 'free'...Somehow. 🙄
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4 randoms *without any communication* doing all 5 totems on the map (without even knowing the killer HAS noed) is an unrealistic expectation. most of the time my team and i barely get to the end game as-is.
yes, second chance perks are also BS. believe it or not, its possible for multiple things to be a problem at the same time
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4 randoms *without any communication* doing all 5 totems on the map (without even knowing the killer HAS noed) is an unrealistic expectation.No it's not. That was the point of the game before the devs ruined it with SWF.
NoEd is fine. Any flaws stated are invented on the spot ('It rewards losing' and 'Killer basically lost when 5 gens pop' or 'it gives free kills') or exaggerated ('No team can do 5 totems') in an attempt to make it look OP.
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Right. 4man SWF that are according to stats in 5% of games completely screw up everything. And yet killer having 60% kill rate makes them still weaker role somehow. So much entitlement
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And yet you did not actually talk about my points other than 'SWF not bad'.
Because Survivors main shave 0 valid complaints about NoED, other than 'Killers too stronk because we said so.'
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I don't see the problem with hatch other than needing desperately that 4th K.
As killer i like that hide and seek part and the satisfaction of hearing it (both roles). Plus many times (more than not) i like giving it to the last survivor.
And as a survivor is nice especially after having teammates DCing or staying afk (which you also don't deserve to lose). And exit gates being close to each other is no fight either.
Plus many killers slug for the 4k so is not like hatch is always an option.
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How is this a "good mechanic"?
You are running around, the killer is running around. Who has more luck wins. The hatch alone is just 100% luckbased and have nothing to do with skill. Even worse, it doesnt reward or punishes the suv or the killer in the before hand for playing good.
Its like a new game, but this time its only luckbased.
Thats a solution but also something nobody wants, not killer and not survivors
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agreed, crutch perk
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not specifcally a door fight, just literally anything but hatch
a survivor shouldnt be given a pity escape because either I dominated or they were failures
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idk man dh was in the game for 5 years, circle of healing has big giga nerfed 3 times and is still s tier, devs nerfed the most viable strat for killer (even if annoying) tunneling, dh is somehow still an issue due to killers like oni who cant bait, etc etc. plus ever since the 10 seconds was added everyone brings prove and toolboxes so gens go flying.
games just not balanced period. randomly shifts from killer to surv sided. current killer meta is absurd, too. just buff base regression and people wont stack 4 slowdown.
its not just 4man swf that makes killer painful a lot of the time, thats such a strawman. 2s and 3s might not reach a 4s level, but their still obnoxiously good. 2s are in every 4 games, while 3s are in every 10. so overall that makes the chances of any size swf like 30-40 percent.
just because kill rates are in a good spot doesnt mean the game is balanced.
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It's okay to be wrong.
Killers do not lose until and say it with me: UNTIL SURVIVORS CAN NO LONGER BE KILLED.
Since NoED triggers before exit gates are open, and before Survivors LEAVE THE MAP; Killers have not lost yet. No matter how much entitled Survivors screech otherwise and invent BS rules and win states they expect the developers to enforce.
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The problem with hatch is it incentivizing survivors to break the rules by taking the game hostage and making the smartest gameplay decision for killer one that is unfun for survivor.
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noed punishes survs for completing their objectives (plural; gates and gens) with exposure, and rewards the killer for failing to properly exert pressure on generators. Its a perk that has only two instances where its used; for endgame builds, or because a killer cant stop generators from being done so tehy bring noed for a comeback at the end. combine it with no way out, and you have a devastating combination that punishes survivors for successfully completing part of their win condition.
besides, even if im wrong, that doesnt change the fact that its a damn annoying perk. im a soloq player and a little part of me dies every time I see noed. nothing thats that incredibly infuriating, to see that you were that close to winning against a killer that barely did anything all match, just for noed to proc and the killer gets a 4k.
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100% agree here, the hatches purpose is a noble one but one that is plagued with annoying game mechanics and the counterplay of being slugged every match, something no one enjoys.
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60% is where it's supposed to be? Idk, but I am pretty sure you would speak differently if it was 60% escape rate.
Also tunneling nerf? I see DS gutted and OTR can be negated just by single hit off hook when surv can't move. If anything, tunneling got buffed. And it shows, because killers now tunnel way more then before patch 6.1
Also game had toolboxes and proofs in exactly same state before patch 6.1. So there must be some reason why people feel the need to take genrush builds now way more then they used to. Maybe it again has something to do with those 60% and camp+tunnel.
Also if you buff base regression, you directly buff also regression perks (because they work in percents). From camp/tunnel experience from patch 6.1 - I know killers will take them more (instead of less). You would need to nerf regression perks to get your proclaimed result.
And for the last point... 61% kill rate. On repeated stats. After meta settling down. And killers were given time to adjust MMR with their wins. They still have a lot above 50%. That should tell the whole story (but it doesn't, because farming killers and giving hatch and games with DC (where killer dominated and would have won the game) being excluded from stats).
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Those aren't always the only reasons the last survivor is there. Often times the last survivor is there because they were the best player on the team. Whatever the reason, it isn't a pity escape. Its simply RNG. The killer already has a lot more power and control over the map than the survivor does so expecting the last survivor to do anything more is basically asking for you to get a pity 4k. Unless the last survivor has a door opening loadout, you will almost always win the door fight.
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