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ANTI-CAMPING IDEAS
This credit goes to my wife.
This is within the premise that the Entity wants sportsmanship and therefore cannot be entertained if the killer is NOT doing their job, and so the Entity begins to strip the killer of their powers for not doing their bidding.
My wife suggested that to alleviate the killer's incentive to camp they suffer a speed penalty for every second they remain next to a hooked survivor within a few meters without actively interacting with another survivor or engaging in a chase. The penalty will only last a few seconds but it slows the killer down significantly up to a max number (at the developer's discretion). This could ultimately impede the killer's success in other chases during the remainder of the match.
She also suggested that gen camping be penalized with a blurring vision effect that gets worse as the killer stands around a generator not engaging with survivors, but simply camping it. The killer will have to walk away a certain distance to clear their vision. Camping should be considered standing around idling or "loitering" for longer than 10 seconds. Then these penalties activate.
Comments
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What if a Unhooked Survivor then loops the Killer near the hook and uses Techniques to keep out of chase.
Why do I as Killer have to be punished for Survivors looping me near a hooked Survivor? or protecting a Gen.
Clearly I'm doing my job as killer in those situations.
Maybe we should not put a stranglehold on Killers because of a few bad apples?
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Camping frustrates people and so they want a punitive action for it. You had a bad game and so you want to get back at the Killers and make sure they have a bad game. The whole cycle is pointless and vicious. Give killers an incentive to switch targets and go somewhere else. There's a myriad of ideas about how to accomplish this and any one of them is better than punishing killers for doing the thing that they want to do.
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Remember, (you just have to read the message carefully) you'll notice I wrote that as long as they ARE NOT engaged with a survivor they would incur the penalty. Being looped by a hooked survivor IS engagement. Right? Besides, there is no reason for a killer to linger around a hooked survivor for more than 10 seconds if that. That's a long time in this game. And it's also unfair in terms of fun and balance.
And even still, It's no different than the killer having an advantage when camping. Or the killer standing near an exit, being able to see every item the survivors are going to bring into a match and prepare for it to gain an advantage, on top of the other plethora of advantages. The game is VERY killer friendly.
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And it could still be abused by Survivors standing out in the open [x] distance away from the hook. Let's say 1 to the North, and 1 to the South, 50M away.
Now the Killer is not in a chase, so he loses movement speed. But if he chases North; South heads in for a save. Killer resets. South backs off.
Survivors were STILL too far away to trigger a Chase, so the Killer is STILL losing movement speed. But if he chases one person; he now slower, and can't catch them, and the other gets a free save.
And that still leaves one person doing gens freely. So now the Killer is slower, can't chase anyone, and is basically forced to give up a save because Survivors think they deserve free unhooks.
And 'punish gen camping'? So now Survivors think they deserve free gen time, too?
Why not just say 'I'm tired of Killers trying to win. Plz punish any Killer who does anything I don't like'? Because that's all these two ideas are; Ways to 'punish' Killers for doing anything Survivors don't approve of.
No.
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Oh I read it , but you have not told me how you intend to measure being engaged? What if the chase isnt engaged by im still running after a person by their scratch marks? Then I would get punished unfairly.
You speak for yourself about the game being very VERY killer friendly, some of us are in different MMRs having to claw and rip our way to a single hooking.
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i feel like everyone comes at this from the wrong direction. Instead of punishing killers how about we give them incentive to leave, ie reward them for playing fair. They camp/tunnel because it’s efficient, so make them playing fair be more efficient.
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That can't be abused IF the killer is NOT camping. It's really not hard to comprehend. Don't camp, no penalty. Very simple. You guys act like survivors or killers who haven't found things to "abuse" that are already in the game. Really?
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I just pointed out how it can be abused, and your answer is 'Nuh-uh!'
And 'Well, there's already other abusable things!', as if that makes it OK to add a way to abuse Killers into forcing free unhooks. Really?
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The reason punishment measures have not been added is because every almost single one has been tested and scrapped by BHVR for being exploitable.
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You just explained how you were denied camping benefits. That's the point. You are arguing that getting free info about other survivors is not enough and you want more (trade on hook? Free hit? Earn it in chase instead).
You already need 2 people to go off gens and then 1 in chase and 2 people occupied by healing off unhook. So only single person doing gens. And that's unfair? Well getting downs for nothing is actually unfair. Earn your downs for a change.
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No, I described how this mechanic could be abused. You not wanting to admit that does not change facts.
Survivors don't deserve unhooks just because they think they are entitled to them. Earn your unhookings for a change.
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I think what they mean is you can quite easily make a situation where the killer looses by defending the hook and that is not camping. The whole situation Inst that easy to resolve because if it where bhvr would have done something ages ago.
You want to weaken camping but you want to be sure that there is no way that what you do against camping is to strong because bhvr wants camping as a strategy to a certain degree and you don't want to make a situation where the killer basicly has to give an unhook because he should defend his hook.
It's quite difficult to find the right balance in this and that's why bhvr is acting very slow on this matter and the same goes for tunneling btw you don't want to make a situation where the killer needs to dance around the unhooked survivor because hitting them would only slow the killer down since he can't hook them without getting punished like many suggests in the forum
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Please give example then.
The only thing I can think of is hooking in 3gen. This would be legitimate reason as killer is technically just patrolling his 3gen. But this should not be a problem if the hook area is small enough (12m is small enough) and camping timer would regress at same speed as it progresses (so you can stay within the area for 10s if you stay outside another 10s). But even if this somehow becomes too restrictive (and I don't think so), then this can be specifically programmed around - if there are 2 or more unfinished gens within say 16m from hook, then ignore this protection and consider it survivor screw up/punishment (same way as basement) - but indicate it in hud for everyone.
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Okey one example would be the killer camping out the last 10 percent of a hook phase cause all survivor thaught it would be a good idea to let it get risky. It clearly a gamble and I should be able to capitalize on that bad decision.
Another example would be the survivor are just super altruistic I know there are two of them around here i should have the opportunity to steal as much times as possible without getting punished for it its not my fault.
Then there is the case you already mentioned and what's with end game should the killer not campthere?
There are situations where it's Okey to do and believe me I don't want to defend facecamping but bhvr wants camping as a strategy and if used strategic it is fine
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I would start with changes in rewards.
For now. Securing early kill via camping and tunneling gives more score and bloodpoints than performing 8 hooks.
Hard counters to camping and tunneling are great, but first i would like to see how campers loose pips.
8 hooks and 0 kills should give much more pb and score than 2 hooks and 2 kills, and even with 4 hooks and 4 kills.
Also, every consequentive hook could give more points than tunneling.
Especially that Entity feeds on pain and suffering, not quick death.
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I just copy-paste an answer I gave to another comment as it is the exact same topic:
Camping is only useful for the killer if it has some kind of instadown, there are seconds left for the sacrifice to be completed or the gates has open and you want a consolation price (and taking in count how bad grabbing unhooking survivors works, if there are 3 survivors left not even for this as they will unhook and start the body blocking parade to the exit gate with a little stop for the tbagging).
And this is not just an opinion, it is a mathematical fact:
120 seconds to fully hook survivor, lets say killer spent 10 second patrolling 3 gens, 30 seconds to down (being soooo generous here) and another 10 seconds to hook the survivor. 120 + 30 + 30 + 10 = 190 seconds.
A generator take 90 seconds without great skillchecks to complete. Now, lets suppose the other 3 survivors got to a generator by the time the killer downed who would suffer the camping: They can not just complete their respective generators, but also have an extra 40 seconds for the three of them to try the save.
And this in the hypothetical worst case scenario, if any of the other survivors had a gen with progress already even before the killer got to his first gen in his patrol, they would have even more time to do the save. Add tools, perks, body blocking, godly great skillcheck accuracy and all the paraphernalia to the mix and camping is not a good strategy to follow in the majority of cases for the majority of killers.
To be honest, many times camping work because the survivors doing, the moment someone get hooked or grabbed they just leave their generators flashlights and toolboxes in hand and go to the rescue in that instant without completing the generator they were doing. More so, even if the save seems impossible, they will still try even if they see that not only they can't save the first survivor, one or two more are downed.
So the lesson is, there is already an anti-camping system, is called "Don't get to Hero Squad Mode and do the gens unless the situation allows it".
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