Remove the ability to suicide on hook
It’s a loophole to avoid the DC penalty while achieving the exact same end result: Giving up for an utterly stupid reason (other than hatch). If you queued up, you should be forced to play out the game. Simple as that. If that upsets you, don’t play multiplayer games. The other 4 people in the lobby deserve better than someone selfish who will instantly give up the moment the match goes south. There’s a reason the majority of multiplayer games instate DC punishments. It’s to ward off problem players like that.
- Unhook attempts are removed entirely (unless Deliverance) or penalty is changed to something other than time remaining.
- Struggle skillchecks are removed entirely or changed to only count for Bloodpoints.
- Give Up option for hatch if only 1 person or less standing. AKA, everyone else downed/dead/hooked/escaped.
- AFK players are automatically kicked and given the DC penalty as if they DC’d.
"B-B-But people will just sandbag instead!11!1!" If they are too obvious about it, they risk a ban. If they play enough to just be a typical bad player, then the goal was achieved: Forcing them to play it out instead of ragequit. And the excuse is irrelevant in the first place. If someone ragequits, the game is already ruined. Them sandbagging instead of DCing doesn’t ruin a game that wouldn’t already have been ruined.
Comments
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I suggested this in my own thread and got told 'You can't make people stay' and other such things.
Apparently having good sportsmanship is considered bad these days.
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It’s not like removing the loophole makes people incapable of still ragequitting. It just means they would have to actually take the punishment they deserve instead of having a loophole. It’s hilarious how willing people are to tell on themselves how immature and selfish they are.
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Agreed.
My idea was literally the same as yours, and I had people telling me I was salty, or I needed to touch grass, and to stop worrying about other people. You know, while ignoring the 'other people' were ruining my games. 😂
I agree whole-heartedly; Remove the ability for people to force themselves through Stage 1, and don't allow them speed up Stage 2. Then the only remaining ways to DC are all reportable.
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For example, instead of a failed self-unhook attempt being -20s left, it could be the survivor is Broken (or some other debuff) for ??? seconds per failed attempt after being self OR ally-unhooked. That way, it’s still a sizable penalty, but not one that can be used to suicide on hook.
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Why should I get penalized for being left on hook at 5 gens going to 2nd stage watching one teammate get chased and 2 others self-caring in corners instead of going for the rescue. I'm sorry but when those are my teammates that game is already a loss and I have every right to let myself die on hook and not waste my time.
I get what you're going for but your idea is overly strict and @Stabby_Widdershins had the same theory on the first 2 points for sure, I will explain why the first 2 points themselves ate problematic and include a fairer way to work that system that I posted in Stabby's thread.
1. Unhook attempts are removed entirely (unless Deliverance) or penalty is changed to something other than time remaining.This doesn't work because sometimes even without deliverence you need to try and unhook yourself, and if you change the penalty there would be no reason to not always try to uhook yourself every time.
2. Struggle skillchecks are removed entirely or changed to only count for Bloodpoints.This wouldnt be a huge difference but it would take away alot of the tension of being on 2nd hook, while for some players it makes no difference because they always hit all there skill checks regardless, that doesnt apply to everyone and the mechanic is fine as is.
Thus is the response I left in Stabby's thread that Im not sure anyone saw but would be a much better solution in terms of punishing the more problematic hook suicides while allowing some of the more reasonable ones.
The simple answer is to make a hook suicide count as a dc, with the following conditions not counting as hook suicides.If you have been hooked twice. Lets you still leave if being tunneled or hook farmed.Hooked once with 60 seconds of time on hook, add an individual timer for each survivor so they can moniter and make the descision based on why they havent been unhooked in that time and makes sure your not punishing players who just get left on hook to die, or have teammates that are so incompetent the match is gonna be a loss regardless.If there are 2 or less active survivors (not downed, dead, or on hook), to make for still being able to give hatch to teammate.This would still let people do it but apply the dc penalty to them.It can still be worked around so players arent "forced to play" but I dont think requiring 2 hook states or at least 60 sec of total hook time when there are 3 players still standing is too much to ask.0 -
Because you queued up for a match. Don’t queue up if you can’t handle it.
- The penalty can be something like being Broken or some other debuff for 20s for every failed self-unhook attempt once unhooked, regardless of by self or others. Still a sizable penalty, but doesn’t allow suicide on hook.
- A "feeling of tension" isn’t good enough reason to let a mechanic used to suicide on hook stay.
- Bad teammates is not a valid or acceptable excuse to suicide. No.
- Give Up should only be at 1 active or less. Because 2 active means they can’t get hatch anyways.
- People SHOULD be forced to play out the match they queued up for.
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What happens when I'm on my first hook state and the only other survivor has just been caught?
How do I attempt to unhook myself?
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Self unhooks can still be a thing, it just should not allow a Survivor to hasten their demise. Because that's being used to ragequit & shaft the team while avoiding the DC penalty.
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It’s why I said the other option is making the penalty something other than remaining time on hook. Eg a debuff after being unhooked. Would still allow attempts but not immediate suicide on hook.
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1. If they are trying to get out of the game being broken isnt a debuff.
2. They designed the mechanic so you can get out of the game because sometimes there is no point in continuing or when you are being griefed by teammates, while missing skill checks does makes you die faster, you only instantly die if you dont try to hit them at all.
3. It very much is if I run the killer for a full minute and then spend a full minute on hook and dont get rescued and no gens get completed, the game is basically over and we are gonna lose and there really isnt any reason for me to sit on hook for another minute. Bad teamates are one of the most legitimate reasons to let yourself go on hook.
4. At 1 remaining there doesnt need to be a give up option, at that point if you are hooked your dead, at 2 active is where you need it to make hatch spawn.
5. Again, there is a point in the match where there is no point in continuing, and both sides should have a concede option.
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I wish I could upvote this topic more than once. People self-killing on hook and how rampant its gotten made me leave the game for half a year this summer. I just got back, and its somehow worse. It's how folks get around DCing; because of this, it should be treated in the same wave of punishment rampup.
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Nop,,,you cannot force people staying in a game they no longer wanna be in,,,and even if that's not enough you need to realize some games when killer snowballs hard are unwinnable and become a hook trading simulator that serves no purpose other than gettin consolation points,,people would much rather take the L and go next
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- The only way for them to get out of the game without getting a penalty would be to get re-hooked. And if they make it too obvious they're throwing, they can get banned from the game instead of just a queue ban. Same with sandbagging teammates too obviously. If they play enough to be at a typical "bad solo queue player" level, then the goal of forcing them to play it out instead of quitting was still achieved.
- Wrong. The hook suicide mechanic existed to try to prevent people from staying to sandbag instead, which was a flawed reasoning in the first place. Whether someone ragequits, suicides on hook, AFKs, or sandbags, the match is ruined regardless. Suiciding on hook is exclusively a loophole for quitting but without getting the penalty for quitting. Which is stupid and dumb design that defeats the point of said DC penalty.
- Even if hook suicide was removed, all you'd have to do is wait around 2 minutes. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't queue up in the first place. And if your teammates are ignoring you, you could just watch YouTube or something while you wait anyways.
- I said 1 ACTIVE remaining, using your own terminology. If there's more than 1 person still standing (injured/healthy), then they can't get hatch regardless. If everyone else including you is downed/hooked/dead except for 1 person, then that 1 person has a chance to get hatch when the remaining downed/hooked people die. Which is why it doesn't make sense to be any higher than 1.
- I'm fine with a concede option. But the current iteration where people can just DC without getting the penalty is unreasonable and unhealthy design.
It's the biggest scourge in this game.
You remove the ability for them to suicide on hook which means they can no longer ragequit but bypass the penalty for quitting. You kick and give AFK players the DC penalty. And you ban people that sandbag too obviously. So their options are to either take the DC penalty, or to play at enough of a level it still passes as normal play (even if not playing well).
You can't force people to stay. But you can force them to either play it out, or take the DC penalty. Which absolutely should be the norm. If you can't handle playing out a losing game, don't queue up for multiplayer versus games ever.
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You can always run to the killer or just chill opening chests/ doin totems,,a person not wanting to play the game they are in will not play the game,,it's not rocket science
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And the first, at least, is reportable.
People need to get it through their thick heads that you DO owe the other players to PLAY THE GAME if you log in. It's called 'sportsmanship'.
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i don't know if it's reportable or not ,even if it is,,you can just play badly and get caught without running directly to the killer,,being bad isn't reportable for sure,,,and you owe nothing to other people,,specially people on net
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Thank you for sharing your suggestions on this topic!
You can report for AFK under Unsportsmanlike Conduct, as it's not normal gameplay.
It's nearly impossible to apply consequences to suiciding on hook the same as DCs due to factors such as lag impacting struggle attempts, failed Kobes, etc.
All that to say, we appreciate the frustration that is being experienced and feedback is vital to the game health.
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People will still find a way to" ruin" the game; Nothing will work unless they balance the game correctly
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The point is getting rid of a loophole that lets people ragequit without getting the penalty for quitting.
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People will find another way to do so, like I said
How about fixing the root of the problem instead?
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The only other options they have are AFK (which should get them kicked and DC’d anyways), sandbagging too obviously (which gets them banned from the game entirely instead of just queue), or sandbagging less obviously, at which point they’d have to play enough to pass as someone actually trying, even if bad at it. At which point, the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit has succeeded. People sandbag in other games too. That isn’t an excuse to have a way to quit without getting penalty.
The root of the problem is immaturity and entitlement. End of story.
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So you rather play a game with people pretending to play "normally", which means the game is already over and you are wasting your time and effort rather than just finish the game as quickly as possible and move on with another game with people actually wanting to play?
Sorry, but these are the kind of mindsets that ruin online games
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Yes, people should absolutely be forced to play out a game they queued up for. Not mature enough to play out a game that doesn’t go the way you want? Don’t queue up. Also, you act like I’m saying to somehow magically prevent them from quitting. They can quit. It’s just then they get the penalty they absolutely deserve for quitting.
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Which is why the hook should be reworked so suiciding on the hook isn’t possible in the first place outside of a situation for giving hatch (when only 1 survivor or less is standing).
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Which is why the hook should be reworked so suiciding on the hook isn’t possible in the first place. Rework self-unhook attempts so they can’t be used to force second stage on yourself, and remove struggle skillchecks affecting time left, so they can’t be used to die. The feeling of tension on struggle phase is outdated and barely matters in comparison to people having a loophole to ragequit but dodging the penalty.
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I dont think this is a good idea. If somebody lost the will to play they will do it. Than they "accedently" will run into the killer 2 more times.
I think its not or just very hardly possible to the difference between a bad player and a suicidial player.
The solution is easy, make surrender possible without a walkaround and que surrendering player with surrendering player.
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If they are too obvious about it, it can get them banned from the game rather than just a queue ban. And if they’re pretending to play at a normal-enough level to avoid said ban, then the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit was still achieved.
Hook suicide mechanic is outdated and used to DC while avoiding the penalty for DCing 99% of the time.
A surrender mechanic with heavy restrictions is fine, but hook suicide still should be removed for that reason.
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"then the goal of forcing them to play instead of quit was still achieved."
Why should that be the goal? The goal is that all players have fun within the match. They will just run into the killer 3 times. How i said its pretty mutch impossible (especally for a program) to detect the difference between a bad player and a player who suicides.
I mean he can also start to make gens, and fail every or nearly every skillcheck. He will find a way to quit the game as fast as possible, the only difference is how mutch dmg he will make the team in the meantime.
Why not just make surreindering players, play with other player who surrender? Than you (who never surrenders) will only play with other players who never or rarly surrender
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Because they queued up, and them ragequitting because they’re too childish and entitled to handle a game that isn’t the way they want ruins it for all 4 other players.
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I think they should have it so if you DC or suicide on the hook too much you don't earn blood points on your next game, in addition to the DC penalty. Then if you keep doing it, the amount of games you won't earn BP increases. I'd say a max of 3-5 if you have a bad pattern
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How i said, just que people who ragequit together. Than they are eather learn it how mutch that annoys other players and stop it, or they are forced to play with each other what leaves the rest out too
That wont help anything. People are not rational thinking "hmm i have to stay so i dont loose the bloodpoints". And you dont know how mutch BP some people have. As main killer i have more BP as i can spend. In a normal game i get like 30-40k, in the evening i often get the +100% bonus that makes 60-80k every game.
i guess good surviver make similar
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