Delibrately Bleed Survivors to Death For 'FUN'
What's your opinion on bleeding survivors to death without hooking at all?
On EU servers there are some killers deliberately do this for 'fun'. Yesterday I played against a nurse and at the end there were only me and a Mikaela left in game. The nurse downed Mikaela, slugged them while chased and downed me, which was understandable. But 2 minutes in while i was on the floor, Mikaela was bled to death. The nurse continued to stand next to my character to bleed me out, and only picked up last second for hook points. So yes, there were hooks around me, the nurse just chose to bleed me for 3.9 minutes for 'fun'.
While slugging could be a strategy to win the game, I think in the above case is unnecessary slugging. Standing over another player's character to bleed them out is a form of toxicity, trolling, griefing, or refusing to participate in normal gameplay (whatever you want to call it).
Sadly this nurse i played against repeatedly do this to many survivors. DBD devs say they don't tolerate toxicity in the community. I'd like to see if they would do anything to prevent these trolls to ruin others' experience.
What's your thoughts and experiences? Do you think unbreakable base kit could solve this problem?
Comments
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I think slugging and forcing survivors bleed out is just BM. There's nothing wrong with strategic slugging where you leave a survivor because of a nearby survivor or to put pressure on the map, but it is a bit of an issue when the killer just intends to force the survivor to bleed out.
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Honestly, if all living Survivors are down and have no get-up perks; after 20 seconds of no one being picked up or moving; it should count it as dead and just kill them.
Why 20 seconds?
- This gives the Killer time to find and pick people up, so they are not denied hooks.
Why no movment?
- This prevents Survivors from just crawling away to deny the Killer hooks.
Each time a Killer picks someone up, the timer is reset for everyone (again; to allow the Killer time to find and hook people). And since the wriggle meter fills every time a Killer drops someone; they can't even spam pickup/drops to cheat the timer.
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I think in terms of programming your suggestion is doable.
I also assume unbreakable base kit might be a attempt solution to unnecessary troll slugging. But I also think some survivors would abuse base kit unbreakable so I doubt it is a good change.
I feel instead of finding a technical solution to tackle toxic behaviour, and possibly create new loopholes/ issues, perhaps banning trolls would benefit the game and the community a lot more?
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Very rude behavior and no it won't be solved by basekit unbreakable. If Im a jerk like the people who do this, standing over you and smacking you each time you get back up is totally possible. Will it be harder? Sure, if multiple survivors are alive they can only do it to one at a time but basekit unbreakable will not universally solve the problem.
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Only Soul Guard could possibly help with that, unless it's a Nurse or Blight.
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Sadly I don't think you can even give proof of this to the devs. I have a video of a Knight doing exactly this to me that is only around 120mb. I tried uploading it to a support ticket to report the player but it keeps failing to upload giving me the error "Upload took too long". If I can't even upload a video of just being trolled during EGC, how are you supposed to give video proof of something happening?
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Soul Guard would prolong the suffering. Just like the current light BT base kit, killers would just wait it out before hitting again.
Many of these toxic slugging killers I encountered are nurses. One sent us to midwich, ran starstruck, downed everyone and let everyone bleed to death for 4 whole minutes.
My thought is, dbd keeps adding these technical 'solutions' for a 'better experience', however, toxic people would still find a way to be toxic. They are the real source of these 'issues'. Why can't dbd just ban them?
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Yeah I had the same experience, when i created a ticket to report, it only allowed me upload ONE screenshot. One screenshot can't really prove anything. In fact I have 10 screenshots of the killer stand over my character for the duration of nearly 4 minutes.
Also they would say slugging is not punishable, but surely griefing and trolling should be?
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Try adding the video to You Tube and then providing the link in the report. This is what I do for my the games I have hackers
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I agree - a video can be uploaded to Youtube (for example as unlisted) and then put the link in the support ticket.
For clarity - slugging is not reportable. You can see the list of what is or is not reportable here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/139-game-rules
Post edited by entertainment720 on1 -
Yeah let's just throw one way of building pressure as a killer out the window because a couple of people are not entertained enough every once in a while. Let's force pick ups, I'm sure that's not exploitable in any way. Also along with that make a couple of perks useless just like most of them already are. Nobody plays them anyways so nobody will notice.
Body block with otr or bt and force the DS because lol if you don't pick up you lose. So make sure not to tunnel. Or camp. Or actually disturb any survivor doing anything whatsoever. Let's make original DS basekit too, along with O³ because it's really annoying when I am trying to loop the baby killer and he keeps downing me for no reason (lag, hitboxes or cheats mostly)
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I see this nothing different than waiting at the exit gate, dragging time the for the killer for "FUN"
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My opinion is that 95% of the time this happens due to killer players who are giant a$$hats and whose lives are so pathetic that their only means of finding any scraps of joy is making other people miserable in a video game.
The other 5% of the time, the survivor probably deserved it. I’ve had a few matches as killer where the survivors intentionally hid for the entire match and didn’t touch gens or try to unhook teammates. In those matches, after I found the survivors, I slugged them and let them bleed to death for intentionally wasting my time.
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I think most people agree slugging could be a strategy to win. But here I'd like to focus on unnecessarily bleed survivors to death/trolling/griefing.
I play killers too, and I don't really want unbreakable base kit to happen.
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I agree. When i play killers I don't like survivors wasting my time standing at exit gates too. Right now I can go hit snowmen for points :D
But bear in mind the end game collapse is way shorter than bleeding out time.
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Not really, he asked how people felt about it, and thats how i feel about it.
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I can confirm I did pop the only gen in the said game, didn't tbag or point or wave at the killer. On that killer's steam profile, I see other survivors' -rep on being bled out to death for no reason.
The only time i bled someone out was bc there were no hooks around me, and the survivor knew about it and purposely got downed at that corner of the map.
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Actually, you didn't state how you feel about either of them, just that you think they are equivalent.
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Lol
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20 seconds death time is whack tho. That makes no sense. Enable the option to "Give up" after being slugged for uninterrupted 90 seconds.
That's long enough to say hey, you've had your chance to hook/heal, things aren't looking good, you wanna give up?
90 second slugs happen rarely unless the killer really wants to slug. Nobody is forced out but everybody has the option to just give up after plenty of time for the rest of the lobby to act on the situation.
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Im sorry, i wrote SEE instead of FEEL, i thought people could do some thinking on their own.
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I honestly still believe instead of adding new mechanics to the game, that would possibly create other loopholes to exploit, it's way more effective to ban the offenders, as long as evidences are provide.
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I mean hes not exactly wrong. Even the survivors that claim "the chase is the most fun part" is just for them because its usually just run from main to a longwall/TL into shack which is totally fun as killer.
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If all living survivors are downed or hooked, a 60 second or so timer should start. If a survivor self-recovers or self-unhooks, the timer is removed. If the timer runs out, all survivors are killed on the spot.
This would save time for both sides. Stops killer from having to search for survivors that crawled off into Narnia, or slug to death survivors that intentionally crawled somewhere they couldn’t be hooked. Stops survivors from having to wait out the bleed out timer doing nothing.
60s timer gives time for people that have stuff like Unbreakable or to try self-unhooking or whatever. If it’s been 60s and no one’s managed to turn the situation around, it’s probably game over anyways.
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hmmm, I think abusing the bleed out 4 minutes is a form of trolling.
I play both sides and I dont really think about other side's 'fun', but I do play as fairly as possible, and I DO NOT TROLL people for my own fun ;)
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I don't think you understand.
Okay 👍
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I have more important stuff to do so im not going to argue with you.
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Generally I agree but I don't see how a "give up" function after 90 seconds uninterrupted slugging can be exploited at all. At any rate, suicide on hook is far, far more problematic.
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Uhh..You DID see where I said this mechanic only kicks in if everyone living is slugged?
IE: The Killer has already won. What 'pressure' is there to build? Why is the Killer being 'forced' to pick people up, when he HAS ALREADY WON?
My idea only kicks in IF EVERYONE LIVING IS SLUGGED (or hooked & slugged in any combination), and they lack any perks to get up. At that point: The Killer has won.
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I think they are equally damaging, as the game could only be 'relatively' balanced when it's a 1v4.
Imagine a rando being slugged, and you got in chase and can't pick up, 2 other randos can't be bothered to pick up the slug, the slug gave up or disconnected, it became a 1v3 and it's not even your fault. Can we say the outcome of this situation is similar to people suicide on hook?
My question is why killers are allowed to bleed people to death unnecessarily without being punished.
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To add to my post above (though my posts disappear if I edit them): This entire idea is basically the whole 'insta-die on hooks' mechanic the developers put in so the final hooked Survivors don't sit through 2 phases when they are all hooked. 🤦
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Your bias is showing…
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Letting people bleed out -can- be the right play. Usually if they have Boil Over and run to a place you can't hook them from, then you've gotta just let them bleed out. Ditto if they're at a pallet and they might have Flip Flop/Power Struggle.
Most of the time people do it though, it's just them being a douche, but I mean it's not against the rules.
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So why is it not against the rules? Why isnt this behaviour considered griefing and trolling and should be punished?
Like you said, there is a significant amount of killers who do this, when bleeding out to death isnt neccessary, it only makes the community even more toxic.
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Because BHVR would have to review every single case individually which is way too time-consuming and impractical for something that has legitimate use as a strategy?
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Right now they are reviewing every single case too.
I disagree with your point. If people know that bleeding survs to death to troll is punishable, then less people would do it for 'fun'.
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No, at that point the killer has not won. Are we talking about some bottom of the barrel mmr? The game is over when the game over screen appears.
I play this game since 2018 and I don't think I have ever slugged for 90 seconds for no reason without getting 2 downs.
By that point at the very least one gen pops and the game is progressing. What if then somebody goes for the heal? Theoretically, a 4 man escape is still possible. If the killer slugs for 90 seconds without getting anything out of it and you still lose, then it's a skill issue.
At this point we are getting into scenarios that occur once in a blue moon in real gameplay.
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Okay, since you don’t get it.
Is the downed survivor on a pallet/the only path to a hook is through a pallet? Then the report is discarded, because killer has no reason to eat a potential Power Struggle.
Is the downed survivor unable to be found? Then the report is discarded, because killer literally can’t find them anyways.
Is the downed survivor in a place where the killer can’t reach a hook? The report is discarded, because the killer has no reason to let them wiggle off for free.
So on and so forth. And no, you’re wrong, because slugging to death isn’t against the rules. This means they now have to start reviewing an entire new category of reports where every single one needs METICULOUS individual review. And a video also will not be enough to definitively prove everything in some cases. You can’t prove whether the killer just isn’t looking or if they can’t find you. You would have to turn the camera around to show hooks in close enough distance to reach to prove the hooks distance. So on and so forth.
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When I get in a game as killer, Im prepared that I could be 'bullied'. As least I get to play the game!
But I do not accept to get in a game to have 4 minutes of my time lying on the floor, and this situation is intentionally created by another side. And I could not possibly do anything to change that other than eating that dc penalty.
The closer argument is survivors wait at exit refusing to leave till last second.
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Bleed out timer is far too long for it to be a regular consistent strategy, I've bled people out organically before but it's a very rare situation and always involves SWFs, flashlights and them making dumb gimmicky plays. So generally speaking it's largely unnecessary and it's kinda lame for killers to do it.
I feel like the bleed out timer should be shortened to 3 minutes. I would say 2 but then slugging is probably better than hooking in a fair number of scenarios and I don't think we want that. But at 3 minutes is still not optimal for the killer to do it most of the time but also makes slugging for the 4k or to grief slightly more bearable for survivors.
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You absolutely don't have more important things to do if you've been arguing on a forum about terminology up until this point, but alright.
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I don't see how they can't implement some kind of way to bleed out faster or just be able to leave the game and leave a hookable husk if everyone's on the ground with no way to get back up.
And since someone's going to yell and piss everywhere unless I bring it up, if every survivor alive's at the exit gates then count them down 5 times faster until it's at 10 seconds left.
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Hm i did mention earlier that I and many understand slugging as a strategy.
I also mention two scenarios of being bled to death and they both arent the situations u mentioned.
I am not discussing about necessary slugging as people on pallet, with boil over, no hooks etc. Im talking about the killer standing over survivors' characters just to watch them bleed unnecessarily. In my case I was the last survivor left in game and not on pallet.
Do you think this behaviour is acceptable, and people should continue to do this without consequences?
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If you have the survivors on the ground and refuse to pick them up, then is absolutely BM, since it is unnecessary and is not participating in the match so I'm not sure if is reportable. But 100% shame on those who do that.
Slugging someone because the killer spotted another survivor, even tho annoying (specially when the 3rd survivor is left on the ground till the killer finds the 4th to prevent that hatch), is "ok" (i don't like it).
I had a match where 2 survivors DC and the killer decided to slug till death the 2 of us who remained in the match because apparently this person had to blame someone and it was ok to treat us (who were more hurt in soloQ by those DCs at 5 gens) like that.
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Exactly my thoughts. I would not just call it BM, i call it griefing and it should be punishable.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I can see it happens to many and it is an issue.
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Read my post again, please.
I said: IF EVERY LIVING SURVIVOR IS SLUGGED WITHOUT PERKS TO GET UP.
Tell me; How has the Killer not won at that point? They can't get up, and no one else is up or alive. It's no different from when every living Survivor is hooked, and they insta-die.
'They might have D. Strike!' Yes, and:
- They have not used it by now, so they messed up and
- The Killer is slugging, so it won't come into play anyways.
So, once again; Reread my post, and then tell me how my idea in any way forces pickups or whatever other thing you screamed about that in no way applied to my idea.
I'll help:
If every LIVING Survivor is slugged, and lacks any way to get back up on their own, they will insta-bleed out in 20 seconds, so long as they are not being picked up by the Killer (for hooks, and D. Strike chances), or moving around.
Why 20 seconds?
- This gives the Killer time to find and pick people up, so they are not denied hooks. This also allows Survivors to wriggle free, use D. Strike, and such, if they are picked up.
Why no movment?
- This prevents Survivors from just crawling away to deny the Killer hooks.
Each time a Killer picks someone up, the timer is reset for everyone (again; to allow the Killer time to find and hook people). And since the wriggle meter fills every time a Killer drops someone; they can't even spam pickup/drops to cheat the timer.
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It's not fun really as a killer main I do that when people are toxic against me Because i feel like it's reasonable To Punish people who insult or make fun of you
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Ok that's easy then I spend an entire day just playing slug bubba, ending games extremely quickly, making everyone depip because why not.
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Ok?
It still fixes the problem Survivors have; Which is that being slugged takes forever & they just want to leave.
You have any valid points?
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Ah, I didn't think of that. Thanks for the tips both!
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