Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Tunnelling at 5 gens needs to be addressed
Sometimes tunnelling is necessary I get it, I don’t like to do it but if all gens are done or the last one is about to pop any second and I need someone dead ASAP then sometimes you have no choice
But proxy camping then tunnelling someone right off the bat, when no gens have even been completed yet is where I draw the line
The big problem is how efficient this is, technically speaking it’s the most efficient way to play killer, make the game 3v1 as soon as possible, so how do we fix that?
Add incentives for the killer not to tunnel? Add buffs to the recently unhooked survivor to make tunnelling harder? Revert the DS nerf? Make ‘Off The Record’ base kit? There’s countless possibilities that could be implemented and I really hope something gets done soon.
Comments
-
The more you buff the unhooked Survivor by default, the more incentive there is to focus them down (because as soon as you do that too much, experienced survivors start using whatever anti-camping or anti-tunnelling mechanic you added as an offensive tool, not defensive), so generally give the Killer a reason to chase someone else. Or at least some benefit to offset not taking someone out.
Otherwise you're just stacking effects that counterintuitively make getting someone out first even more important.
8 -
There’s two types of players.
Type A will tunnel just cause they want to. Literally impossible to stop this type.
Type B tunnels for strategic value. You can reduce this type by rewarding other strategies.
It will require some reworks of the game itself on a large scale to achieve, as getting someone out early is a huge benefit. As an example, adding something like a basekit Pop Goes the Weasel or Ruin that activates temporarily when you hook a survivor that isn’t the previously unhooked one. Then, it rewards going for someone else. Obviously, things like this would require changes elsewhere as well though. Another example is a basekit temporary repair speed slowdown on recently unhooked survivors.
0 -
Tunneling some one at 5 gens is probably the least efficient thing you could do. You are letting the other 3 Survivors do gens, and you are handing the resources that is meant for 4 people to 1 person.
Its only really a viable tactic if the Survivor in question doesn't know how to loop properly, or its a Nurse who doesn't really care what stage of the game is in as she still remains the same level of strength (in the chase) through out the whole thing.
3 -
It's an unfortunate situation, but I...have no idea how to fix this without completely pooping the sheets balance wise.
The best I can think of is adding perks that incentivize the killer to attack people who haven't just been unhooked - but then you get the problem of survivors hard countering it by trying to force the killer to hit them.
OTR isn't the way - it's already a problem perk, because the weaker killers get smoked by it, as it gives a free bodyblock 3 years from when the unhook happened. The problem with tunneling is:
- Some killers can glitch it out or bypass endurance completely. Clown with his bottles (a direct hit cancels endurance for some unknown reason), PH has some shenanigans with Tormented and others are just too fast for the person to escape.
- It's not enough of a deterrent, as a sufficiently determined killer just won't stop chasing. It may make the game easier for everyone else to win, but it's no less miserable for that person unless they were really looking to practice their looping today while also depipping.
Really not sure what more can be accomplished here without completely changing the way the game works.
0 -
You can't buff recently unhooked survivors more or they'll just chase the killer and bodyblock for teammates.
You can add more incentives for the killer to -not- tunnel but the incentives will never be as strong as making the game a 3v1, thus making the incentives pointless.
There just isn't a way to 'fix' tunneling without completely overhauling how hooks and hook-states work, which BHVR probably doesn't want to do.
1 -
And fixing it with perks would have to be some really nice perks.
0 -
Yeah, again - it has to do with the way the game works unfortunately. I can think of a few ways to fix camping and slugging, but not tunneling so much.
0 -
Changing BBQ was a big mistake.
There were always people tunneling at 5 gens but after the BBQ change it got worse, at least in my matches.
4 -
You couldn't be more wrong. The better the survivors are, the more likely you'll lose unless you can make it a 3v1 ASAP.
If you watch any comp DBD, there's tunneling is pretty much every game. Why are the best killers in the world tunneling if it's not the most efficient way to play?
4 -
Fixing the power dynamic shift. The game feels like it's balanced somewhere around 3.25 survivors, with survivors starting with the advantage and having an inevitible-yet-variable shift in the killer's favor. The fastest way that favor shifts is through making it a 3v1 with as little damage done as possible, while on survivor side you want to do as much damage as possible before losing one person to offset the disadvantage it then creates. They need to find ways to normalize the advantage shift to be less dramatic, reduce snowballing potential on either side and incorporate more rubberbanding (as in, making the advantage minimal for either side regardless of number of remaining survivors)
Too much of the match gets determined in the first few minutes as things currently are, which is an especially bad combination when loadout decisions on either side can vary wildly in strength.
0 -
They're just no skill killers! A REAL skilled killer can 12 hook without camping/tunneling no matter what!!!
2 -
And you couldn't be more wrong in terms of comp, sure they might tunnel the first person they see but it all depends on the scoring. What I'm going to be going off of, is a rough example of the scoring system used by DbE roughly a year and a half ago.
Fresh hooks give the most points being 3, while 2nd and 3rd give 2. Meaning you could get a maximum of 32 points as killer. Of course the opposing team would know about this, and a good chunk of the time if 1 or multiple Survivors could leave with no hooks they would do so. But lets say this game is the final round and they only need 6 points to win it to move on to the next stage, of course the killer is going to try simply tunnel the first person out since its the easiest thing to do and is practically a guaranteed kill. How ever if the team in question was a bit more behind in points, they would more than likely spread out their hooks as much as possible since again, fresh hooks gave the most.
I didn't stay in comp for very long, mainly because I was a sub for an EU team as an NA player and only scrimmed a bunch since they didn't need me for actual matches. The team was called Children of the Void which only lasted for a few months and was mainly just a bunch of friends wanting to try something new. Nowadays the majority of these players are in the teams NoMercy and Ruby Wolves.
0 -
I'm going to be brutally honest here
I feel if someone gets tunneled out at 5 gens the survivors deserve to lose.
I get that it's not fun but if a survivor who has the entire map of resources available to them and still dies before any gens have been done then either they played really poorly or their team wasen't taking advantage of the time they were buying.
Especially with the endurance taking away the most unfair part of tunneling that was hitting a survivor of hook before they could reach a tile
If the killer focusses all their attention on only one person and doesn't lose atleast 3 gens in the process the survivor team misplayed badly
The only exeptions to this is against nurse or blight with his strongest addons but that's more of a killer issue then a tunnel issue
I'm not going to say hard-tunneling isn't a problem cause it is but it's not that big of a problem that people are making it out to be
4 -
Endurance remove collision, fix BT body block.
Healed disable Endurance & DS, fix OTR & DS offensive tool.
Then they can buff the unhooked further
Especially with the endurance taking away the most unfair part of tunneling that was hitting a survivor of hook before they could reach a tile
There is still difference between chasing a survivor with 1 health state especially they get Deep wound overlay which make it harder to properly see and loops(yes, they should be able to run to a title, but still 1 health state chase) and chasing a healthy survivor. This is why chasing unhooked survivor is still better choice than chasing a healthy one.
Overall, tunneling would just lead them to higher MMR that they dont belong to and totally destroyed by survivors who completely out skill them is the best part.
2 -
If a survivor is killed and there's still 5 gens left, the survivors misplayed somewhere. There's a point in which survivors need to accept some responsibility for the game. I understand being tunneled out can feel unfair, but if your teammates aren't trying to help you out or get gens done then there isn't a reason the killer should have to go through more hoops to kill a survivor.
1 -
A person's playstyle is not bottlenecked or gated based on how many gens are left.
1 -
no its very easy to hit immediately after hook so DH and off the record doesnt work. u only get DS.- missplay my ass.
1 -
Ds resets endurance so you can use dh.
Also you have 2 hooks before the 3rd kills you. If your teammates can't get any gens done before you get hooked 3 times when the killer can't just immediately down you off hook then the survivors as a whole are doing something wrong.
1 -
Ow yeah, it's still the easy way out. I'm not saying that it isn't a problem. But it's not as big a problem as people make it out to be and survivors can do a lt more to lessen the effectiveness of it
I have a personal rule that if the number of gens that still needs to be done is higher then the number of survivors left then i'm not going for unhooks.
And the only time i see all survivors dead at 5 gens is when i'm chased first
I do agree that people who tunnel are eventually making it harder on themself. I feel like the mayority of people who say that "you need to tunnel to win" are in that situation because they started tunneling in the first place
0 -
The game rule itself is stupid, the difference between a match that 4 Gens done and a match that 5 Gens done. Is 4 Gens done match is 3K and hatch escape, while 5 Gens done match is possibly of 0K.
Because of that, to achieve 40% escape rate, 5 Gens should be done every match.
Increase Gens time further may lead to over 75% kill rate, which is 1 escape. If you play a match knowing only 1 can escape, the game will become 4 survivors hiding and wait for other 3 to die so you can get hatch. There is no point to do Gens to get the same 1 escape result.
1 -
First down needs at MINIMUM 30sec+ just for map traversal and simple running straight away from killer (except blight/nurse) after a hit. And then hook timer itself is 120 seconds.
If the other survivor don't manage to do even one gen in that time then they missplayed heavily. There is no need not to stick and finish your first gen except the chased survivor bringing the killer straight to you.
Even moreso with the coming icons that tell you when the killer is in a new chase and it is save to stay on gen/go for save.
1 -
As much as i agree that tunneling at 5 gens is a douchy way to play the game its still just a way to play the game for killers.
Because of how the survivor meta is these days its actually nearly impossible for a killer to tunnel someone out of the game with 5 gens left. Majority of games I play as killer a gen pops right as i get my first down, then by time ive hooked and gone to find someone else another gen pops. Survivors are running perks these days that are gen focused (not everyone but majority i come across) so if someone gets tunneled out of the game and its a 3v1 with 5 gens left thats a survivor issue not completly at fault to the killer.
Again tunneling right off the bat is incredably boring. I've been running an experiment on different ways to play killer and the games in which i tried purely tunneling each survivor out of the game (in the name of science) was incredibly boring but it did always result in a 4k so although boring its efficient.
I think this whole "tunneling needs to be fixed" mentaltiy needs to stop. Nothing the devs can do will stop tunneling short of making a survivor off the hook immortal. You mention some ideas such as making off the record base kit are you insane?? Giving survivors more and more basekit abilities is such a bad idea. Reverting the DS nerf will do nothing for tunneling because killers will still just eat the DS then continue to tunnel. those extra 2 seconds arn't that effective against majority of killers these days.
Now please take the next statement as something that I don't want to happen but is just a counter to the whole "tunneling needs addressing" issue
If behaviour implements even more help for survivors to counter killer playstyles then I want to see a lot of counters to survivor playstyles.. For example make exhaustion perks token based so its not just a free perk to use, nerf brand new spare parts, nerf SWF, Punish survivors for killing themself on hook, punish survivors who arn't progressing the game (head on bully squads for example). If you can moan that killers are playing the game (which is effectively what your doing as tunneling is simply a playstyle) then us killers can complain about survivors playing the game. AGAIN THIS IS KINDA A JOKE NOT SOMETHING I BELIEVE SHOULD HAPPEN I'M JUST MAKING A POINT.
There are so many playstyles that survivors employ that are very powerful (and boring) such as gen rushing and teams running boilover flipflop plays whilst sending you to a map designed for it but as a killer i just deal with that. If i get gen rushed so what i get to leave the game and go next. If survivors are trying to just bully me by doing 4 player head on plays for chain stunning then i just either slug or i afk till they are bored and if survivors are abusing perks (like so many of them do) i just tunnel them out of the game or if its something that means i can never hook them i bleed them out for 4 minutes.
Bottom line is although tunneling is something that happens its not as common as everyone sais. Whenever I play survivor I get tunneled hardcore maybe 1 in 10 games if that. Similar to my partner she plays a load more survivor than me and gets hardcore tunneled less than 1 in 10 games. In games where the killer is trying to hardcore tunnel its a 50/50 if it actually works because its very easy to counter if survivors actually help each other.
if you think your being tunneled every other game or something stupid then I ask you to record your gameplay and re-watch it because i guarentee that majority of the games you are being "Tunneled" its just the killer making the logical decision in the game and not thowing the game just because you put yourself in a postition to be tunneled.
2 -
I feel sorry for any killer that feels the need to tunnel at 5 gens. If they REALLY feel the need to be THAT competitive/sweaty/desperate to win then just let them and move on.
Take this attitude and it all becomes a lot easier to handle.
0 -
Yeah, i wish there was a little more between the gens being done and opening the gate
When the gens get done if the survivors don't try a risky save usually means all or all but one of the survivors escape
If they don't get done then all or all but one of the survivors die
It's very all or nothing
0 -
How do I get matched against survivors who somehow repair no gens in over 2 minutes?
1
