Michael Needs to be Adjusted
So, as the title states, Michael needs to be adjusted in some way, shape or form. I’m not exactly certain on why some people state he’s balanced, and I’m sure I’ll get some flack for saying this, but Michael needs to be changed as he’s the most out dated character in the game. Example.
Just about everyone got add on reworks or adjustments at the time. Except two people, Hillbilly and Michael. They were the only two killers to be launched and never adjusted in a significant way. Now, comes around the time Pyramid Head releases, both Cannibal and Hillbilly get reworked, along with new add ons. Now, this is a big thing because it means Michael is the only killer to never be altered in some way. (No, I do not count the one alteration to the description of his add on. It didn’t change, they just made the description clearer.)
So, I think it’s time to acknowledge that Michael needs to be changed, as his add ons are old, outdated, and suit play styles that aren’t healthy for the game. Let’s talk about it.
Starting off with the add on that needs to be changed the most. Judith’s Tombstone (and by proxy, tombstone piece). If survivors complained about old Mori’s needing to be altered, I’m baffled as to how they don’t complain about this add on as well. Or, at least I haven’t seen anyone complain about it. For those of you that are unaware of what this add on does, it allows Michael to kill a survivor while he is in tier 3 Evil Within. Doesn’t matter if the Michael’s seen or chased you all game, if you aren’t locked in an animation, he will instantly kill you and remove you from the match. Now, let’s talk about how hypocritical some of this is.
A few years back, the game used to be a lot different, obvious since this game has been going strong for 7 years. Around the 3rd or 4th year anniversary there were talks about Mori’s needing to be nerfed. Now, newer players don’t remember, but Mori’s were already nerfed at this point. Old Mori’s made it so the moment you get downed, you could instantly be moried by the killer if they brought in the offering. (Sound familiar?). Mori’s at the time and still even now are viewed as unfair to some. Which is fair as the killer can tunnel you out to get the mori, but there’s a big difference to a mori and tombstone from Michael. You actually get to play the game.
People complained that Mori’s made it so you couldn’t play, fair argument, but then why isn’t this argument directed at Michael? He has two add ons that make it so you don’t have to interact with the survivor at all until you’re in tier 2 about to pop 3. Just get real close and then boom, you kill that survivor instantly and there’s nothing you can do about it. If a Michael chooses for you to just not be able to play, he can by bringing this add on. Combined with his other problematic add on (there’s a few, both the iridescents are the biggest offenders along with J. Myers Memorial) Fragrant Tuft of Hair, he becomes unstoppable if you don’t know his counter (which is literally just to let him get free grabs, but it’s the only thing you can do to make sure you stay in the match longer). If a Michael runs FToH, he can just down someone and camp them on hook, leaving a survivor to die because no one is able to save, not to mention he doesn’t need to go through a cooldown or windup before he can swing his knife to instantly down you unlike Cannibal.
These add ons enable unhealthy play styles if the killer chooses to go down that route, which some will do. Combine the two together and you make it so everyone dies unless you hide in a locker or work on a gen until he grabs you off of it cause he didn’t get his kill. Along with the J. Myers Memorial making it so you can stalk faster, it makes it so he can run FToH and JMM, which makes him gain infinite tier 3 faster. This makes it so he’ll get tier 3 even quicker. And sure, some people will say to blame your teammates who feed him stalk and of course that’s something out of your control. But just because my teammate didn’t notice him, doesn’t mean it’s fair he gets to instantly kill that teammate just because they didn’t notice he was slowly moving up on them.
Now, people will say that he needs to be buffed, and, okay. I’m fine with him getting buffed as he’s underwhelming at times the main issue comes through his add ons that don’t suit the game today. People dislike Pyramid Head and the new Sadako condemn play style. But at least you’re still playing the game against them and they have the earn their kill by either getting you to death hook (PH) or actively trying to corner you into a condemn (Onryō). Whereas Michael just gets right on top of you with PWYF, pops tier 3, and just kills you. Whereas the other two can sometimes feel like they may not have “earned” the kill on you, at least they had to interact with you in a meaningful way before killing you.
I’d be fine with the devs buffing basekit Michael so long as they nerf his add ons. They don’t suit the game today and are unhealthy for a lot of various reasons. He’s also the most outdated character and is in due time for a rework or at least an add on overhaul.
TL;DR Michael is the only (oldest) killer in dbd to not be adjusted in some way. His add ons suit unhealthy play styles for the game and should be reworked or nerfed. He can get his base kit buffed, but his add ons will need to take a hit so they don’t become even stronger than they are now. I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but what are your opinions on it? Am I insane for thinking in such a way, or do you agree? Let me know why you agree or disagree and please keep it civil. Game balance is usually not a civil topic for most people, so let’s try to respect other’s opinions and give good cirque and feedback so the devs will know what we want for the game
Comments
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I’d leave Judith’s tombstone but just make harder to activate. Tombstone piece on the other hand needs to be removed.
His other add-ons need changes too. His duration add-ons are out of whack (Hair bow is by far the best)
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I’m not sure how I feel on just making Tombstone harder to activate. If they made it to do he had to interact with the survivor in some way before he can kill them like Sadako and PH, I think it would be healthier.
I agree with the other points though, Hairbow, Dead Rabbit, J. Myers Memorial even Judith’s Journal. They need to be nerfed or altered (and many more)
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No, people definitely complain about Mikey too. It's just there's enough people who realise how utterly stupid just going "nerf his good addons" in isolation is (then what does he have?), so it's less blatant.
Also, he did sort of get adjusted recently! Since now power-adjusted vaults can't be affected by perk. So the one other thing t3 had going for it with the long lunge (what, is he not going to get to benefit from coup de grace next?) doesn't really exist.
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I’ve had games against tombstone myers where all 5 gens are done before he pops tier 3.
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Not all the time… but it’s pretty easy to escape against infi Judith.
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If Myers requires an insane amount of stalk (Like 3 survivors worth of it) tombstone will then give survivors ample time to stall and get gens done
The issue with tombstone is getting a quick single kill using the piece since it’s downsides are much less severe
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I’m fine with his power being affected by perks, and I know his good add ons are what makes him a fairly decent killer. Which is why if you nerf his good add ons, it makes him much worse. That’s why I’m fine with them buffing his base kit, but if they alter his base kit without changing his really strong add ons, that’ll make those stronger add ons even stronger and more oppressive.
And I must not have seen it, I don’t really see Mikey getting talked about, I know me and my friends talk about him a lot when play and talk about killers that need to be adjusted (along with pig and Sadako). I do hope they adjust him at some point in the near future though. Maybe sometime before Twins? (But I’d be completely fine with it being after them as Twins desperately need the love and attention to fix up their kit)
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I’m not saying it’s not, just that to an extent you can’t control teammates at times or map rng. Which causes him to gain more stalk than would’ve on a different variant. I agree it can be really easy to escape against him, but I still think it’s unfair he’s able to remove you from the game without interacting with you
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Did Myers get affected by the vault change? I always thought it was specifically different vaults not just the speed increase he gets
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That’s true, I just feel like it’s too easy to activate the add on right now and the fact he’s able to just kill you without you seeing him all game.
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Judoth tombstone is already hard enough you have to stalk survivors very long to activate it and you're slower too with it. But change what it needs is that michael can mori you from locker. Tombstone piece is fine to be countered by lockers.
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Tombstone piece is far from fine. If Myers even manages to get 1 kill relatively quickly it’s a free win
Judith’s is mostly fine but just needs to be a bit harder to activate. Keep in mind that I want Myers buffed in general at the same time as these changes
Jumping into a locker shouldn’t be the counterplay to it. The counterplay should be more involved and less RNG dependant
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Swear I've seen it mentioned that he got caught by it too.
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He's annoying, especially in solo que. The stalking to phase 3 and mori thingis kind of oppressive when people can't talk about what's happening.
He's actually more annoying than Eruption for me in solo. Maybe if we're all loud enough!
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That is just code for "Make him do something I can counter by looping"
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Honestly it just sounds you're salty that you don't have to be hooked, lol
It's the same as people complaining about slugging and literally any other playstyle besides being hooked, why would you want to die the EXACT same way every game? I for one am tired of that
Also, Myers is one of the few unique characters left in the game, I do not want to remove his tombstone and just make him another m1 killer with hardly any power except exposed
Tombstone piece you can remove or nerf it fine but keep the tombstone's main effect or add more counters if it's such a big deal, we don't need to make him a generic m1 killer
We need more ways to kill and die in this game, not less
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I kind of agree but if locker moris are added then there should be some other kind of counterplay
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It’s not that I want him to be countered by looping, that’s why I stated I’m fine with his base kit getting buffed cause I know it isn’t as strong as some other’s. But his iri add ons suit unhealthy play styles at times and need to be adjusted. He can just get a free kill by barely interacting with you that it’s not really fair to the survivors
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I don’t mind if they add more options to kill survivors, I would be fine with that actually as that means the killer has to earn the way to kill you. Where it stands as is, tombstone makes it so he’s able to just stalk someone else for awhile, move on to someone else, stalk them, get infinite t3 and the first time you see him, you get instantly killed.
It’s why I’m okay with them buffing his kit cause he does need the help (dunno if he needs it as much as pig and Sadako do though).
I don’t want him to become an m1 killer (though he kind of already is that anyways as his power doesn’t really add anything special unless you use his add ons). I want his problematic add ons getting changed as they suit unhealthy things for the game.
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Really the main problematic thing people have issues with is the tombstone piece
Plus, you forget how would they get the evil incarnate achievement if there was no tombstone???? It would take a lot of effort to remove it from all platforms
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Ultimately Myers needs an addon rework so he can more variety of addons since Myers is from a timer where addons were largely direct upgrades to each other. Tombstone addons are also problematic. Piece is too strong and Judith's is not really fun for either side. Both of these deserved to be changed. On top of that Myers would also need basekit adjustments. The fact Myers can run out of power is a bit outdated.
Ultimately Myers needs quite a bit of work to update and he's not in a state where he's the highest priority to adjust. A killer being on the weak side is just a lesser issue compared to killers being too strong.
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They recently adjusted Michael by Proxy: they changed Fire Up and Bamboozle from affecting his vault speed (as well as Legion or Wesker). This 6.4 stealth nerf was aimed at Wesker but massively hurt Michael and Legion.
Those two perks need to affect Michael again.
Ok let's talk about Michael. If you want to rework him there are a few items that need to be addressed
1)He has the worst start of any killer in the entire game. If we're removing the tombstone piece then we need to do one of two things. Pick one:
A) Michael starts at 115% speed and has normal lunge.
B) Micahel starts at -5% speed and gets +5% speed when he is in T3.
2)His power needs to work like Oni's where he stalks and fills the bar. He has to let go, and then tap it again to activate the power. No more of this "rollback" 99% nonsense.
3)His power needs to have the multi stalk function restored so that he can stalk all survivors in his line of sight and when he does that he gets super stalk speed. Note : this was the way he was released but then nerfed a week after launch. Any player that disconnects has their "stalk" distributed to all living players.
4) Judith's tombstone will now function on survivors in lockers or on the ground - because the purple tombstone is apparently "too much".
5) Michael's base power duration will be increased by 60 seconds ( so 120 seconds total) since Ghost face has 1 minute duration for his power now. Alternatively Michael needs to stalk survivors 50% less than he needs to stalk now for all tiers. Note the second option would make T3 much easier to obtain.
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You had a bad game huh 😂 that sucks 😔
Michael Myers is perfect how he is powerful ability downside
it takes a tremendous amount of time to get Judith to work and about the next time by third hell only ,there probably want be stalk hell just have tier 2 if survivors play him well
Casual gamers gamers gamers don't gamers don't really gamers don't really care gamers don't really care about gamers don't really care about gamers don't really care about winning games and prefer not to face higher skill killers
Now if were talking about a team you'll be lucky if you get to tier 3
You didn't like my video huh ? I mean 4 were alive they did 3 gens gens maybe 4 so they got to play game
Why does every killer have to work hard every game and survivors don't have to work hard any game ? It literally takes alo game two get tier 3 ,in that notion with his add on the only killers isnt allowed to just eliminate a survivors against Micheal survivors play full games
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"free" is a buzzword. It means nothing.
I don't consider a free kill game-throwing for 3-5 minutes straight. But go and keep hating the fact there's a killer that doesn't let you feel invincible as long as you are healthy.
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You say the evil incarnate achievement but they managed to change all of the achievements related to stranger things and they changed the 4 man hatch escape along with changing the skilled huntress achievement, so they can change that achievement as well
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It’s not the fact that I don’t feel “invincible” while healthy. I play injured half my games anyways. The thing is is that he can get a free kill on someone without even interacting with them, that’s the main issue. He doesn’t have to interact with someone at all and then he can just kill them outright without even having a chase with that person. Or if he does chase, it isn’t for a long time
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To be respectfully honest with you, I find it really hard to understand what some of your points are. Michael is far from perfect, and it’s not because I had a bad game or bad few games. His add ons are problematic for the game and need to be adjusted accordingly.
If you’re trying to insinuate I’m a casual gamer, I’m very much not. I play this game a lot for hours at a time cause I love the game. I don’t see why bringing up casual talk about balance matters when he shouldn’t have to rely on add ons to be a good killer (which he does more often than not). That’s why I say they can buff his base kit, as that’s not inherently the issue with him.
And it’s not that I don’t want survivors or killers to work hard for something, it’s that his kit is outdated by a long shot and needs to be changed to be more modern. I go back to what I said about Mori’s, if Mori’s were altered cause of how they were previously, then his add ons need to be adjusted as well because he’s basically just bringing in an old mori except he doesn’t need to down you
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Again, not free. He has to do an enormous amount of stalking. Which is interacting. You may be blind and not see it, but it is still him engaging with the Survivor.
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Not always, cause he can just stalk someone from the top of DDS and no one will notice and then he hits tier two and people finally notice, now he’s already a quarter of the way to tier 3 which isn’t really interacting because he’s just staring at you from far away
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I just kill myself on the first hook and move on to the next game to end the misery and boringness of it.
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He has to find a survivor and activate an ability that requires their presence. That's interacting.
What YOU want is to be able to drop pallets, vault windows, and other things because you are bored.
It is more interactive than Survivors, who literally do not interact with killers by doing their primary objective of working on generators. Imagine if we made some weird rule that generators cannot pop unless a Killer is swinging at you within terror radius to get the last 1%.
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Except I never said I was bored or want to be chased? I want him to interact with me, not stare at me from 40 meters away and gain stalk as I can barely see him. So many killers interact with survivors, why is it that his best add on makes it so he doesn’t need to interact with people?
I’m not playing a game as Michael. I’m watching survivors do their objective until I hit tier 2 then I watch them run away. Please explain to me on how that’s interacting with them. Especially when you have killers like Trapper, Billy, Hag, Huntress, Doc, Freddy, Pig, Plague, Oni, Trickster, Nemesis, Cenobite, Artist, Sadako, Dredge, Wesker and Knight.
And that final point you made is a lose lose situation if I answer it. It’s a trap to lure me into a scenario in which you’ll gain the upper hand. We aren’t talking about survivors doing gens, we’re talking how Tombstone is something where Michael doesn’t have to interact with the survivor in any meaningful way in order to kill the survivor
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It's pointing out a double standard. You think that Myers stalking isn't interacting and that's bad, but gens are literally done through noninteraction. But the Myers example is bad?
And is a game mechanic that LITERALLY requires you to find Survivors NOT interacting? This isn't like the chain hunt filling up all by itself.
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Except Chain Hunt filling up forces the survivors to interact with the killer. And yes, doing gens means you don’t interact with the killer, but so is hiding. Which is what the game was supposed to be before everyone made it about chasing.
All I’m asking for is to make tombstone be able to either be harder to get or make it so it has some kind of stipulation before he can kill you like PH or Sadako. Cause with the way it is right now, all he has to do is just get into a chase with you and pop tier 3 and you die. It’s not fun for either side
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Chain hunt does not require you to interact with the killer. At all. I can and have walked over to a totally unpatrolled box not even in a terror radius, solved it, and got right back on my gen.
Tombstone doesn't need a change. You bring up Sadako, where it is basically impossible to kill unless you spend 30 minutes doing it and refusing to hook, and Pyramidhead, whose ability to kill does nothing but save himself one 8 second walk to a hook.
Also, it is totally fun for Myers. Not sure about this not fun for either side stuff.
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I agree that micheal needs some altering on add ons but he needs Judith's tombstone to show how strong he truly is but my main thing on micheal i wish they can fix is his mask. Give us the original from the 1st movie or the most recent ones (even the rob zombie version will do). I get it about money and licenses and all that stuff but he's an iconic legend for horror give him better than the corny Halloween 4&5 looking mask.
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My fourth paragraph why is it repeating the same words
Anyway that's the point of add-ons to adjust the killer's abilities, and Michael has that uniqueness to him, and what gives him great shock value, he's unpredictable and that's what's also scary and fun playing against him
What's the point of raising his basekit if the results are the same, he'll just be tier 2 end game with no real pressure to apply fire up early mid game burnout end game which survivor's want to make it end game
Survivors don't like being killed , they hate the core of the game ,killer has to work hard ,have ton of frustration pitted just so someone doesn't feel like they didn't play ? Reverse that and that's the same for killer because two chases caused him all gens
That's more of a personal matter that someone doesn't like. This hasn't effected overall sales and player population.So no effect for game health.
Michael is perfectly balanced weak because of the give and take nature of his power but I don't have games with infinite iri back2back or rarely tombstone some people have games with it , you got Mori so what? Last time I checked this wasn't a kid's game there's supposed to be dangerous elements instead of nursing and handholding.
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At this point his base kit is the problem. Tier 1 is a detriment instead of an asset. Tier 2 is as basic as it gets and tier 3 is pretty much Oni without the mobility, pallet breaking speed and ability to hit multiple survivors at once. On top of that stalking takes so much time. Time that Myers simply doesn't have.
Myers really needs a complete rework.
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I'm fine with that, just keep the normal tombstone lol I like that it's unique in its own way
Though I do wonder then, what will be the counterplay for it if lockers and actions are no longer an option?
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Honestly you should be glad that u went against a tombstone Myers and one that has the Iridescent one too lol
I don't know how people don't get tired of dying by hook all the time lol
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Who says iri tombstone isn't fun?? Honestly I wish I went against more tombstone Myers lol but they are rare, same with Condemn only sadakos
Always just hook, hook, hook
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This is a valid point. You can get 99% stalk from 3 survivors and then go 1% tap on someone you have never interacted with and kill them instantly.
But how is this any different from you hiding from the killer and finishing generators while your team gets chased and hooked? It seems fine given the rest of the game has this interaction as a regular event.
-"it takes a tremendous amount of time to get Judith to work"
Which is why he should be able to end a survivor on the ground. We already have a working example power of this with Pyramid Head.
-"Michael Myers is perfect how he is powerful ability downside"
He is far from perfect. He can't break pallets in his power - maybe that should be a default thing. Let Michael's regular swing break pallets as base kit but remove that ability from his Iri tombstone.
He has no movement ability. If he started the game at -5% and was +5% in T2/T3 that would make a lot more sense. And if he were using the tombstone he would be -8% so only -3% because of the 5% boost in T3.
I would say Billy in 2018 was a perfect killer. He had addons to make the game extremely punishing but was strong with no addons. He was punishing but was not without limits.
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on the one hand: you make a good point
on the other hand: infinite tombstone go BRRRRRRRRR
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