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I'm so bored of this current meta.
On both sides :/ anyone else? I just feel like nothing has really changed even after that big meta shift. Still love the game no hate here lol just saying.
Comments
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Survivor meta didn´t change much.
Killer meta changed completely.
Both still address the same issues.
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Survivors: "You dont need to run Gen-Regression-Perks, Eruption is OP, its boring"
Killer: "You dont need Meta to win, because you are the powerrole anyway, but out of curiosity, I face 13/14 out of 16 Meta-Perks every game"
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Perk changes will only do so much. The game is just stale in general. We're coming up on Year 7 and the basic gameplay loop is still the same for the most part.
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Killer perks changed yes but the meta is still just gen regression because it will always be the most easy and effective option
90% of killers today are anti loop powers so 4 slowdown is infinitely better than any chase or info perks (Lethal and nowhere to hide are the only info perks I see consistently)
As for survivors all that really changed is more gen speed perks and OTR instead of DS
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Did the meta really changed? Cuz when it comes to meta, i still just see gen defence vs. gen speed up and tunnel defence.
And i blame MMR for that as it just counts objectives vs. objectives (kills vs. escapes).
Ofc we had meta builds before MMR, but not that frequently, at least in my memory.
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Of course the killer meta is still gen regression. Playing without them leads to really short matches.
The Anti loop doesn´t really help with that. I honestly think, that most people would prefer to run something else instead. But get stomped when they do.
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Tbh I don’t see a world where regression isn’t meta regardless of how gen times are changed
When 75% of killers are designed to shorten chase your just better off focusing your perks into slowing gens. Even if the numbers are nerfed further I’d imagine 3 slowdown would still be used most games
You can say killers want to experiment but we’ve seen on both sides that people just don’t do that because it makes matches harder
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Nerfing Gen perks won't answer the complaint
Buffing Base Gen regression would help a little bit... But it won't solve everything
Also maps do need to be changed
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Survivors still use Second Chance Perks.
Killers still use Regression Perks.
Nothing has changed really.
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1) I agree with OP. survivor meta didn't change. i run the same build ive run for like three years and just escape more and more as i improve. Theres no point in running most survivor perks because they simply suck compared to the meta ones. Isn't even close. The majority of the perks are either too situational to care about or just not as good as other perks. If I get bored and run not meta survivor perks usually its a match or two and I switch back to them.
2.) killer meta is shittier than ever. I'll admit I have a much higher win rate than the one behavior reported after the changes last summer, i win maybe 70-90% of my games. I know thats a big gap but my point is I know I win way more than half, and its still a ######### experience most of the time. The killer meta currently requires alot of the same boring ass perks which is boring. But yeah if I play 10 matches I will win probably 7-9 of them and hate every game but ONE. Very often that one is the one where I lose oddly enough. But yeah between toxic teams, certain swf builds being literally uncounterable, teabagging #########, and having to run the SAME BORING ######### build every match just to get even three kills, yeah idk what the shake up in summer was about. All it did was now my matches take FOREVER kicking gens repeatedly while survivors do them small bits at a time. slowly break pallet, kick gen, break pallet, it's literally just slowly creating dead zones and breaking chase to patrol gens for 15-25 minutes THEN finally just getting chases and downs once there aren't loops available around the gens. Any other strategy is going to lose right now unless its new survivors. The same build all the time and games taking 45 minutes isn't fun. The alternative is to lose.
3) Frankly I think the shakeup of perks/sbmm/extra gen time back in the summer of 2022 ######### up the player pool. SBMM is a failure and not a single player likes it. and the shake up and extra gen time for killers just drove away a lot of weaker players on the survivor side. I had a hundred game win streak or so after that "extra ten seconds on gens" happened. I said this back in the summer: killers got so overbuffed the only survivors that will be here in six months are MEGA sweats, and even when we get less sweaty survivors their meta will have been forced into gen rush. Which means we are forced into gen kicks. It's just bad planning and bad game design. We are exactly in the spot I knew we would be in and it's dumb that an average player could call this.
Unbreakable, adrenaline, windows, lithe, sprint burst, dead hard, CoH, continue to be 90% of the survivors I see, and also I hate to admit it but the same perks used by my own teams. I play with TWO different ######### teams WHEN I play survivor and both use all these perks because despite the 40+ perk change these remained the best in the game. probably missing a couple but yeah. meta is stupid atm. Our 4 man beat a poor doctor so bad a couple days ago I had to tell the team to stop bullying or I was dcing. Mans got head on SEVEN TIMES in one game. How is that fair? For us to be playing a killer that falls for that? Doctor caught me right before last gen popped. I double pipped even though I died and from the insane amount of killer I play I expect that doctor either safety pipped or one pipped. He should not have been in our lobby.
All the work behavior did on that massive perk rework failed. Survivors are using the same perks. Killers are still using half the same perks, the only change has been we are using almost ONLY gen regression. Before is was half that half chase/aura. I'm sick of eruption on every killer but the moment I take it off it's the same sweat squads with their endless second chance perks (again i use them too. because they work. thats how META happens.)
I'd give my left pinky toe to have access to behaviors information on game statistics. I really REALLY want to see the perk use stats now compared to a year ago. If they were charts I bet the survivor chart would match up perfectly and killer almost perfectly.
Also whoever made SBMM is the worst game designer in history. Right now I can have the best killer game I've ever had in terms of out mind gaming, out looping, never missing etc. but if i don't get three kills I lose.
I can play survivor and loop the killer all five gens- and according the the devs openly saying this- it means I'm still the worst player on the team. Even if the others players are incapable of lasting two seconds in chase.
Pips being based on emblems and objectives made sense. Die but still rank up because you PLAYED WELL. A killer can literally camp and tunnel to win with no skill. Thats why sbmm is stupid for killer. A survivor can hide all game and do literally nothing and escape. Thats why sbmm is stupid for survivor.
Meta has stayed the same perk wise but the motivations for both sides have changed. Killers playing toxically is ENCOURAGED by sbmm. Survivors gen rushing every match and not trying other builds and not doing challenges is ENCOURAGED by sbmm.
SKILL base match making is not about SKILL is about SANDBAGGING
SANDBAG based match making. That is a great term for it. oh and for killers its SCUMBAG match making. Because at the end of the day SBMM just encourages bad behaviors.
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There's always gonna be a meta and you're always gonna be sick and complain about whatever it is. That's just video games. I see way more variety on the survivor side than i ever did before.
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What exactly did you expect to change?
Gen speed wasn't changed all that much, and feels a bit faster now if anything thanks to the plethora of faster gen perks.
Regression perks got mostly nerfed/is still meh, but are still the easiest way to slow the game down to a controllable level. The only exception being CoB, which needs layering and Eruption, which is only really there to stomp solos - it's very mediocre against a decent team.
Info perks get redundant fast.
Chase perks are mostly mediocre.
So...killers bring regression. Only they now bring layered regression, because of the nerfs and the fact that gen speeds...didn't really change much.
If by 'change the killer meta' you mean 'they don't use regression perks', you'll need to slow gens down, nerf regression further, nerf the hell out of toolboxes and faster gen perks and then buff chase perks out the wazoo. And watch the forums, within a week, complain bitterly about those newly buffed chase perks being unbeatable and how boring the game is now.
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At this point I hope they add to live servers those gamemodes I see the content creators upload on youtube instead of having the same mode since 2016
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Sure, there will always be players that will stack slowdowns, just like there will always be Basement Bubbas. But how the majority of the playerbase reacts would be more significant.
After the meta shake up we had a short period where everything was possible. People tried all kinds of builds. Streamers tested all kind of weird stuff (i remember several very weird but successful builds from a particular streamer). No one felt forced to use the current meta. It was beautiful!
We need another shake up. Probably a more daring one.
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It's hard to say that people really would inherently stack regression though when the developers have refused to not have amazing regression perks in the game.
If you throw overcharge, pop, thana, deadlock, corrupt, call of brine, jolt, eruption, pain res in the trash as a thought experiment, I don't think people are going to run like, grim embrace ruin dying light gift of pain. Bhvr haven't tried to make killers run different things, they nerfed ruin/pop/undying while buffing other perks, the suggestion wasn't "consider a different kind of perk" it was "bring different slowdown perks."
Even if they did run that build, I don't think survivors would complain about them as much. And as always I would endorse map nerfs to go with nerfs to the meta killer perks.
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We all are. But I don't think bhvr has a clear answer to solve the issue, except shuffle perks every 6 months and everyone will still run stuff that fulfills the same purpose, only under different names.
It would happen if they made slowdown perks that don't stack, which was that they announced as their intention. Except, they went on and did exactly the opposite when they changed blocked and regressing gens to be able to be damaged. Plus a lot of perks that apply upon kick.
Stacking doesn't work that well anymore for survivors, though. So, that's as start.
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The meta game remains the same because it's tailored by players to address what they feel they need most to do well on games.
They changed the perks Allright, but the objectives of the game? Not much really.
So the killers will continue to prioritize slowdown and survivors will continue to prioritize Gen speed and counter chase.
They'll just do it with whatever perks do the job best at the moment.
Want a meta shift? Scrap all Gen speed related perks on both sides.
Make gen speed a fixed value (sure that'll require fine tuning) and see what the community comes with to step up their game in other avenues.
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yea i feel you man, i maybe played under 10 matches of survivor since the knight came out since eruption abuse seemed to be at an all time high then. I'm flatly not going to play survivor until killers aren't able to force a 35 minute match without chasing people.
Killer is pretty enjoyable atm tho this is the first time in a long time i've been mostly a killer player in dbd
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Here’s an idea idk how good it is I’m not exactly thrilled by it
set perk types for both sides
Gen speed up, exhaustion, chase, stealth, etc for survivor
Gen slowdown, chase, track, stealth, etc for killer
no player can run more than one of a perk type. No toolbox with gen perk. No aura addon with aura perk for killer.
would ne d to be much more detailed than this but could def force some variety in game okay for a change
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Until the actual foundation of the game is updated (Hint: It most likely never will. BHVR rather milk and optimize profits) nothing will change.
One game mode in 7 years, same meta, same entitled players on both sides with cringe takes, same predictable pathing at every tile on both sides, same bad maps, same balance philosophy, same predictable match outcomes etc.
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It’s definitely a stale meta. Particularly the killer meta. I don’t mind the survivor meta as much as a killer main. But playing survivor right now has been far from enjoyable.
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I was affraid that DH wouldn't go down without a fight and that's exactly what we're seeing right now. That damn thing just won't die! At this point they have to completely reimagine that perk or remove it because otherwise it will never go away.
The killer meta did change though it's still the same type of perks. Regression is the new regression. Eruption is pretty much the exact same as DH. You need to play around it by guessing when it might come and it's awful. Nobody wants to play around a perk that they don't even know is in the game yet! It needs a complete rework to end this misery.
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True, remove Slowdown, exhaustion and endurance perks.
As killer i think all 3 are not very funny. You need slowdown perks to counter enemys exhaustion perks.
endurance perks like DH or Off the Record are just frustrating to play against. Its just not a fun element, you cannot use launch attack if they have DH or if you dont know that they have DH. The game feels balanced on 2hit-> down, not 3hits.
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I think it’s safe to say the first shake up was mostly a failure (Though it was still an overall good update) Meta is still 100% slowdown and second chance perks because they are generally the safest and easiest options available
You’d have to make all slowdown/second chance perks useless to stop people from using them tbh. The game’s design just encourages their usage more than any other perks
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As for stacking it would have to be very high levels of non synergy. Remember when people were actually using Ruin and Pop together despite the intention being a lack of synergy?
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As long the game will be focus on generators for both side nothing will ever change, killer should not care at all about gens, the game need new objectives and not shared between surviors and killer (and right now, generator is a shared objective for both) but completly different aim. Killer should only focus on chase/killing while survivor only of survival/stealth and escape but there is too much to change to make it happen
Friday 13th the game ( and i hated that game) had a vaild idea, there were multiple way to escape, the killer could not stop those progress ( or he can do very little about it ) he was focused only to search and kill, suvivors on the other side had multiple choice but none of those could be buffed ( unless working togheter in some cases ) and then hide and run
Something like that would improve a lot the game
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I know I do if I don't run at least 2-3 Regression perks match's go too fast and I get the lovely ez game baby killer responses I'm chat....that's why I stopped playing awhile ago....I don't like where the only viable perk options for Killers is Regression Perks. I have a few good perk combos that are not regression but only if it's against survivors that don't run full meta Gen repair perks.
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Survivor meta before the patch: Dead Hard and Borrowed Time
Killer meta before the patch: As much slowdown as you can carry
Survivor meta after the patch: Dead Hard and self-applied Borrowed Time
Killer meta after the patch: As much slowdown as you can carry
memta shimft
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The only Chance i see is to Stop this Meta bullshit is all Regression and Progression perks for Gens musst Go, Add more time to fix for Gens a little bit And all Second Chance perks musst Go. Make decisiv Strike Base Kit With 45 sec And the rules it has now.
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add a ######### new game mode already, or more types of trials so i can stop repairing these insufferable generators.
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Or killers simply struggle more with the gen speeds. Because 12 hooks stands in no comparision to complete 5 gens for 4 survivors.
One of the last questionaires contained the question about survivors having an additional objective. This could help with the problem. IF it gets implemented. Gen slowdown would be obsolete.
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I have hope in the future of DbD based on their latest questionaires. See comment above.
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I’d still be worried about slowdown stacking if a secondary objective was added.
You can’t just remove every slowdown perk and agin just stacking 3-4 slowdown is just the easiest option which is what people are going to pick
Just like survivor. You can nerf second chance perks but they are still mostly going to be used unless you add anti camp tunnel measures as basekit. Even then if the perks remain you will stack them on top of the base effects since it’s still the most effective choice
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I had a idea for a second objective for survivors that would also help with how oppressive some regression perks are.....
Gens would now stop repairing at the 25, 50, and 75% zones where then survivors would have to find a spare part that spawns across the map that they are shown where to look. Once they install it into the Gen it locks progress at that zone so it can't regress past it, and they can continue repairing it. BNP would also be changed from what it is now to that I can be used in place of the spare part. BHVR wouldn't need to even touch either Gen Repair or Regression perks (besides the ones that are issues ATM)
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They probably won't add a new game mode simply because that would split the playerbase and that's never a good idea for any game. The best course would add a new objective for Survivors to break up the boring nature of repairs. (See my idea above)
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Basically nerf survivors (no exhaustion perks, no OTR or BT) and buff killers (longer gens). Fixed it for you.
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all that changed was the killer meta. No perks that were meta when the shift happened are still meta on the killer side. Meanwhile for survivor, they keep their strongest perk, and it still has the same issue-being uncounterable in a loop. Killer meta switched from passive regression to gen kick perks
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Well, gens fly on still very fast despite making it longer, AGAIN. PRoves the point it's a bad objective and needs an update and the perks too to coincide
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Locking the progress for both sides at certain intervals is a 2 edged sword. It would also mean, that the killer can´t remove progress off gens.
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The meta isn't going to change as long as the game is complete gens to escape and kill survivors. All the shake up did was make one perk useless but then buff another perk that would basically do what the old perk did in a slightly different way. Ruin/Undying/Pop are gone and instead we have Eruption/CoB/Overcharge. DS isn't used anymore, instead it's OTR.
Could introduce new game modes but they'd all end up with same problem of having a meta...but atleast you could alternate what meta you'd be playing with/against.
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I know but until the part is installed it can still get regressed but I understand what your saying.
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You are right. I tried running no slowdown perks and gens are flying. Several games. With no stealthy killer to get them by surprise it is nearly impossible to hook faster then they do gens.
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Yh not great. Hardcore Swf teams gen rush hard, and can run insane chases. Killers can facecamp, tunnel run insane regression to counter. Casual/mid level survs get rofl stomped. The game is an awesome concept but it has one game mode and that's it. You are stuck in your mmr level, hard to have a chill game as killer or surv without getting slammed.
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Nothing will change until they change how important gens are. We've seen with Deathgarden that BHVR doesn't know how to make a more engaging objective system.
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Remember when they said they would monitor and make consistent changes to the meta? I do. Now it's been 7 months.
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The meta shakeup was a failure this game is absolutely boring now
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It would also make 3 gens near impossible to defend. Which is kinda the last line of defense for killers.
Maybe the devs reveal additional objectives in a future dev stream/test build. Like they did with the basekit unbreakable and mori.
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Ironically, survivors complain about full slowdown builds but will rush gens and instantly leave, when the killer isn´t using them. Like they prefer to have extra short matches or something.
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The biggest change in the meta shift on survivor side was that people generally stopped stacking 3 second chance perks with 1 exhaustion perk. Gen rush perks like Prove Thyself also became more common. Generally the changes weren't huge.
And on the killer side people on the contrary started stacking 3-4 gen regression perks, because before killers used to have 1 really good perk (ver 1 Ruin, Pop, ver 2 Ruin with Undying) but now killers have a lot of decent anti-gen perks. Here the changes were bigger.
A few perks also either left or entered the meta. That's pretty much it.
I do prefer the current survivor meta over the old one. Not sure about killers.
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Yea I admit it's not a perfect idea but it has some promise and need fine tuning to help deal with 3-gens and meta speed/regression without majorly nerfing perks or styles of play. Maybe a PTB to see how our glorious community that looks for ways to weaponize fixes for issues and see where it needs to be tuned up on.
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