Simple buff to anti tunneling
Just to be clear, this is probably a bad idea. I would prefer them to just buff DS.
But, if Bhvr really wants Off the Record or BT to be effective anti tunneling tools there a simple change that they can make.
Again, probably a bad idea.
But making the endurance from the BT work like Mettle of Man, AKA doesn't put the survivor in Deep Wound.
This change would really nerf tunneling and hard, since you can't hit BT to also get rid of Off the Record.
Again, for the third time, probably a bad idea, i would prefer a DS buff. But, its a thing they could do, if they are brave.
Comments
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It would definitely be nice, the only fear I would have here is that survivors would start bodyblocking with BT and Off the Record against killers that don't want to tunnel. With DS, you can bodyblock twice as well, but you pay the price of being downed after that, which is why I much prefer a DS buff, and which is why at some point, it would be awesome to have DS in survivors basekit, but the latter can only happen once much more maps are balanced properly, and less killers struggle with gen times.
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When the Mid Chapter PTB was released, you had survivors taking upwards of 5-6 hits before going down. I see where you’re coming from though, but making Off the Record not put you into deep wound would be revisiting that same issue from the PTB.
However, I do like the idea of buffing DS again as it is next to useless against many killers.
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Not off record, just the regular BT. Still insane i know
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In the end, tunneling is just a play style, and if players can’t handle losing to a very frowned upon play style, then don’t know what to tell them. (Not directing this towards you)
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What if when the killer hooks the same survivor twice in a row they can't use their power, m1 or kick gens for a minute? That'd show those bad nasty boys that they have to play fair. Filthy killer mains.
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It's most unfun playstyle for that survivor to experience and very unhealthy for game to happen at 5 gens. Survivor should have strong mechanic to protect from it which would make other playstyle more viable. Many killers has to set their own rules when to use it to make it fair and justified. Though that was more in the past usually games are tunneling right at the start now. Many perks and changes just now encourage to tunnel/camp right at the start well that would be okay if the game is supposed to be miserable experience but if it suppose to be fun then that is exactly opposite. I think tunneling should be made very punishing but killers should be rewarded going for another survivor. Every killer should get big speed boost after hooking survivor and downing another survivor should automatically regress ramdom gen by 25%. Corrupt and BBQ should be basekit.
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I don’t mean to be rude, but are you serious about that last part?
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give the killers an incentive not to tunnel, and if you're not a tea factory, no one will tunnel you
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You need to do both.
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Not a bad idea at all. I have suggested the exact same solution in the past.
The reason current anti tunneling is a placebo is that everything can just be disabled by simply hitting the survivor immediately. Congratulations, you will have to spend 15 seconds instead of 10 to catch up to the survivor, but there goes OTR, DH and whatever. In either case they'll get to a loop anyway, so that's a moot detail.
That's tunneling done properly. Counting to 10 and then giving another speed boost is not.
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So, what you want is literally a 4º health state for free on unhooking to punish killers for doing what they must do even more? Huh, this is new.
With survivors doing gens as fast as they are doing it now no, absolutely not. "Nerfing" the perfectly fine and allowed efficient way of getting rid of one survivor as soon as possible (when survivors allow you to do it... seriously, stop unhooking at 5 meters of the killer) would only encourage killers to just stick to 3 gens in a corner of the map and try to get the upper hand at the end even more. Chases are already long enough against good loopers and Off the Record provide 80 seconds of tunneling protection.
The funny thing is what they should do is nerf deep wound so it also goes down when you are running to make Endurance what it always should have been: A second chance aid and chase extender, not a pseudo 3º health state.
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Yep, again, if bhvr really wants off the record to be an anti tunnel perk, then the perk can't be countered by hard tunneling.
Again, i think just buffing back DS should reduce tunneling as it will make killers more scared to do so.
But again, if they have the courage to do it, this is the way to nerf tunneling hard and very effective.
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The DC buff is a good idea as it doesn't work at the end anyway and people started tunneling and camping even more so you need to come up with a real counter to the killers.
The developers need to make it so that chasing one survivor as a killer became unprofitable and acted only to the detriment of the killer
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Once someone is unhooked (if gates are not powered), they lose all collision, make no sounds or scratch marks, cannot interact with anything, and are no longer visible for 10 seconds. Bam. Gives them a guaranteed safe exit from the hook, and the killer won't know which direction they went. Absolutely gives the survivor every chance to get away and reset.
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1- i already said this was probably a bad idea and not the change i would want (even if very effective at solving the issue)
2 - If you hitting the survivor within BT time and continuing chase, you are tunneling. No excuses of acidental tunneling or something.
3 - While yes tunneling is a strategy and necessary for killers to make some pressure, improving the game for killers to split pressure and making focusing on one survivor more punishing would make the game more enjoyable for more people.
4 - That version of deep wound was a thing, and it was nerfed because of killers like Legion or tunneling that would maintain chase to guarantee downs in which survivors couldn't do nothing
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1.- You thought it was a bad idea, but posted it anyway. So don't get mad if someone confirms to you it is a very, veeery bad idea.
2.- Who is excusing tunneling? Tunneling don't need an excuse, taking out ASAP a survivor from the game is the smart thing to do and with gens being done so fast right now even more.
3.- You don't have the right to tell people not to play smart / to win (or how to play in general) so you can have an "enjoyable game". That's like making a rule in soccer that doesn't allow a team to steal the ball after they scored a goal so the other team "can have their fun too". Again, being "unfun" for you is not a valid argument for anything, as killers don't have the obligation to provide you with your fun or vice-versa.
4.- Then create another effect for Legion, rebalance the total time, remove self mending or leave Deep Wound as is but rework Endurance in another way (like not giving speed boost on hit). The point was, Endurance shouldn't be literally a 3º health state with the only condition of not being able to stop running for 20 seconds, even less having a version allowing to have a 4º health state.
And as I said, most of the time tunneling is only possible because survivors allows it. If you unhook someone in front of me, what do you expect me to do? Just waste the chance to get a second hook on him and chase someone else? With the basekit BT, if you don't hit the unhooked survivor soon after he touches ground it is not worth the tunneling, as he has haste, which will take longer to catch him up, you have to wait 10 seconds minimum to hit him or simply hit him and make the chase even longer. So, stop killing your fellow survivors and don't unhook in front of the killer, and if you must to, coordinate to body block.
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I agree with you in terms that something drastic needs to happen to prevent tunneling.
I am new player and casual at that,and 3/5 my games are miserable as i am being hard tunneled ( my team took hits and even went down but killer still just went for me). i didnt do anything that could of caused that reaction. As i was target from first second due to lethal pursuer. I go down within less than a minute and i am out of game. So my experience is lost items,no BP to recoup lost items,lost pip (which i only want for end of month BP) and miserable game experience.
So something needs to be done whether through perks,basekit or reward system (BP) to discourage tunneling and even camping.
OR
Introduce different game mode, tournament style where tunnelling etc is allowed and casual where it is harshly punished.
Again as I said I am a new player and the current playstyle of killers makes the game miserable and i play less of it.
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Ok, you know people give tones of ideas to make the game better for both sides. I play both roles and have done or got done to me all the plays people complain.
Also, no i can't force anyone to play the "Correct way", its game, you are free to do what you want, but buffing killers in parts that help them split pressure and nerfing strategies like tunneling is a good direction to take the game. You can still do it.
Also, no the killer is not obligated to provide fun to the survivors. But loosing and still feeling good about it is mark of good game design, and the fact that the most effective strategies involve tactics that are not fun could get solved.
One thing killers and survivors need to understand is the notion of cause+effect, every change to one side affects the other and changes the way they play. Just look at the metas
Survivors are too strong and killers have to camp and tunnel to have a chance at winning - Survivors bring second chance perks
Gens are too slow and killers are stacking strong regression perks and locking 3 gens - Survivors bring more gen rush tools to make gens way faster
This are cycles they feed on both roles problems. Killers need to be rewarded and incentivize to spread pressure and not have gens fly in their faces, and survivors need to not be condemned to a death sentence for being hooked once
Mending is fine as it is, it was changed a while ago and it needs to stay that way. And the devs will not waste time to change the killers like legion and deathslinger whose powers cause the deep wound, that is way to many resources for something that is fine as it is.
Also, i like to give wild changes and feedback. Even if i admit that it could be a bad idea, simply because i myself don't like Off the record, i still find it interesting to discuss it
You don't like it, fine all good to me. The devs won't probably read any of these post anyway xD
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The problem you are facing is precisely you are new to the game. As a killer, I could tell when someone is not as good at looping and that would be my main target whatever I can. It is fair? No, but I play to win.
Keep playing, get good at it, and you would see how you are not only less tunneled but are able to survive more time. In fact, I recommend you also start playing as killer, as even if I'm a noob playing survivor being a killer main allowed me to see what experienced survivors do to get away from me, which allowed me to get a little better as a survivor.
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The only thing I'm going to comment from all that (because sorry, but I don't see how anything of what you said there is relevant to anything being commented before) is the "Loosing and feeling good about it is mark of good game design" part... no, it is not.
"Feeling good", whatever losing or winning, is totally subjective and on you, not on the game design or other players. In fact, yesterday SpooknJukes uploaded a video about this topic and I think he explains it pretty well, showcasing the "entitlement of having fun" mentality many DbD players have, both survivors and killers. So, instead of writing a long post, I will just put it here:
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
This is a great idea and DS once taught killers not to tunnel, they were afraid to immediately pick up a survivor standing next to him even when the survivors did not have this perk, it still gave some time. Look at the game now, it's just toxic camping tunneling. There has never been such a high rise camping tunneling in the history of dbd. I even caught those times when the last survivor was released and now all the fun is gone from the game and only toxic campers remain. When the DS perk left, the killers became toxic. I hope the players will never have a question after such games "maybe it's time for us?"
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Sure. Both sides can be entitled. Both sides can be toxic. For entitled people nothing will be good enough but their desired result.
But there still is something like objectively good and bad design. If you remove looping, take away possibilities for both sides, force everyone into just tunneling and camping and make gens last 30s instead of 90, the game would be objectively worse even if it did not change balance in any way. And you can feel good when you loose under good game design (if you are not entitled).
For example I love to loose against "chasing bubba" (a rare breed that will never hook at basement and will sprint away from hook given their reputation). Those games are indeed fun and it feels good to be outplayed by such a killer (because he indeed needs to outplay you to win). Also such bubbas even if rare - they exist also in high mmr - I play in a group where the average hours on survivor are somewhere around 5k hrs.
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It's so annoying when the killer hits you right off the hook and you run away a couple of meters with a deep wound. So I completely agree that these 10 seconds should work separately without causing a deep wound.
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You kinda missed the point didn't you, if I am new player and my games are miserable as I am being tunnelled why should I invest more time in the game? Also, I have seen PLENTY of good survivors getting tunneled out so hard they don't have any chance. Look at all the streamer survivor main videos about it. So reality is killer mains need to learn how to win fair instead of going after new players or tunnel strong player for ego boost. I actually play as killer and I NEVER Tunnel. I don't need to. I get satisfaction of actually player a fair game and still get kills and yes even 4k.
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I don't know... because you like the game and want to get good at it? It's unbelievable for me you don't see the hypocrisy of talking about egos when you made clear that what you want to do is not make the effort to be good but make everybody sacrifice their fun so they play how you like to make sure you are having your good time and win, whatever you deserve it or not. DbD is the only game where people are so entitled to having fun they would say things like this and be taken seriously.
No, nobody needs to learn to "win fair", YOU need to learn to win. YOU need to get better at the game if your fun is winning it. YOU need to make your fun. And if you don't find fun in getting better and winning by your own merits, or can't make your fun in any other way, it's your damn problem.
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