Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Its just a simple Math...
Prove thyself= 15% each survivor gen speed, max 60% (correcting 45%) progression speed on a gen with four survs and ONE perk, requirement: Hold M1 and being together.
Eruption + jolt + pain ressonance + pop (20% of max gen) = being generous with pop, its 53% regression with four perks that requires an ENTIRE BUILD, and having to work out multiple ways to each one to work.
Imagine if was otherwise, pop regresses a gen by 60% in one kick, it wont last a day (this would be ridiculous too).
Killer gen regression perks are mere a band-aid to be possible play the game commiting mistakes as a human being, where they are more punished by time in chases than rewarded by making hooks.
Nice joke.
Comments
-
There's a base kit penalty for survivors working together on a gen. Prove doesn't even completely eliminate that penalty.
Two survivors on separate gens finish them in 90s. Two together, even with Prove and no travel time factored in, take 92.08 seconds to finish the same two gens. Survivors splitting up is *always* more efficient than working together with PT, the exception being the last gen, which saves maybe 6 seconds total.
You can read more about the actual mechanics of how this perk functions here:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Prove_Thyself
9 -
you forget about hyperfocus, which allows you to solo repair the generator in 60 seconds, or in 45 if there is a toolbox
3 -
Correct, max are 45%, but the point im trying to make here is that one perks closely outmatches other four ones, where in a assimetrical game the statistical advantage should be on the disadvantageous side, not otherwise. In my opinion, its more advantageous to work the max survs possible at one gen, in a all win, for the killer to catch the right gen, it already pops.
1 -
Yep, funny that im talking about the tip of the iceberg here.
1 -
The simpler math...
Base Gen progression is 1.0-2.2
Base Gen regression is .25- plus an additional 2.5% (which doesn't mean much)
4 -
What's your point exactly
That gens get done too quickly? That gen regression perks are too weak?
1 -
yep
1 -
Both, may one be a consequence of other or not but actually thats it.
2 -
Do you have any other evidence to back that up besides "the math"?
1 -
If this is a PTS whining thread, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the math.
3 -
Comp matches, high level MMR do you want a point to point why?
2 -
Cool, prove me wrong then
1 -
Comp isn't representative of the average match, we're talking people who spend hours and hours practicing in private games and are always on voice communication 24/7.
"High level MMR" doesn't really exist, it's not only been proven that they widened the MMR brackets and the pool of players will gradually expand if there isn't any players close to your MMR rank. I believe Hens and Choy made videos talking about this subject, might be worth checking out if you are interested in more information.
2 -
I can do that very easily. PTS boosts gen speed for every person near the gen after the first person, meaning 15% for two, 30% for three, and 45% for all survivors. The game has a default gen penalty of 15% per survivor on a gen beyond the first one. Without PTS, gen speed is 0.85c/s+0.85c/s for two people, or about 53 seconds for a gen. With PTS, individual speed is 0.85x1.15, or 0.9775c/s, which is about 46 seconds for a gen. Two different people on two different gens will complete them in 90 seconds, or an avg of 45s per gen. There is no world where PTS boosts gen speeds by 60%, or boosts unbuffed gen speed above 1c/s.
People stacking up on a gens are also easier to pressure. If four people are on one gen, if you get close to it, that's four people doing nothing.
Lastly, Pop and assorted flat regression perks aren't regression DOT buff, they are straight progress deletion. They don't remove a set number of charges per second, they remove a set of flat charges.
It's incredibly idiotic to look at a bunch of percentages and start conflating them with each other with no understanding of what they represent.
11 -
So...
10% of 89 = 8.9 (so 89-8=81)
10% of 50 = 5.0 (so 50-5=45)
20% of 89 = 17.8 (so 89- 17=72)
20% of 50 = 10 (so 50-10=40)
AKA... not as good on low amounts of progress... but pretty good on high amounts of Gen progress
VS....
100% of .25=.25
200% of .25=.50
400% of.25=1.0
1 -
I 100% agree with everything you said. People really need to stop thinking pts is some insanely op perk because it has big numbers on it and actually think about how actually using it works in game
6 -
What both of you don't get is splitting survivors on multiple gens would be "100% efficiency" in terms of charges per second, but not in time, and more time in gens means more time to things to go south for survivors AKA good for the killer (BTW, having 3 people on a gen won't be easier to pressure as the moment you start chasing one the other two would continue to repair it). Not only that, but makes not only normal regression but instant regression less efficient.
3 survivors on one gen with PT finish that gen in 32.97 seconds at 2.73 c/s. A 53% instant regression with Eruption + Pain Res + Jolt + Pop are 47.7 charges. So, in that gen, the total time lost for survivors are only 17.47 seconds approx instead of the 47.7 that would take one survivor to get those charges. And this is comparing the worst case scenario of full instant regression perks build against only one survivor perk, without taking in count other perks that boost repair, great skill checks or toolboxes. So, more people in a gen, perks or not, would be always more time efficient.
And the same concept applies to regression over time. But why even compare perk boosted regression against multiple survivors with PT when even against one without it, maxed out regression (in other words, CoB + OC, 175% to 300% with both active to 200% when CoB runs out) takes almost the double of time to fully regress a gen (160 seconds). A process one survivor can completely stop by slightly touching a gen for less than a second, by the way.
So, even if I can agree that PT is not really the problem your arguments aren't valid points because even basekit progression speed is way too much compared with all the regression perks a killer can put in a build.
2 -
I've read this post 3 times, and I've had a very hard time trying to figure out what exactly you're trying to say here, but I see a lot of incorrect information so I'm gonna go ahead and correct you.
"100% efficiency" in terms of charges per second, but not in time, and more time in gens means more time to things to go south for survivors AKA good for the killer
What are you even trying to say here? Efficiency IS maximizing your time. It means the most gens get done in the least amount of time. 100% efficiency is, by definition, the shortest amount of time. That's the actual definition of efficiency.
(BTW, having 3 people on a gen won't be easier to pressure as the moment you start chasing one the other two would continue to repair it)
Yes, so you get the injure on the one person that you caught working on that gen (which should be very quick, seeing as they were likely stepping on each other trying to get away from it), and then turn right back around and go back to the other two, who are now in a compromised position again, and you get two separate injures on them. Survivors just gifted you a 3 man injure (16*2*3=96s seconds of aggregate slowdown, assuming no mangled or medkits). During this entire time, that's three people being pressured off gens. Now you take your pick on who you wanna down and you got yourself a free hook and 2 injured people and they got very little gen progress in return.
Not only that, but makes not only normal regression but instant regression less efficient.
No, it makes them neither more nor less efficient. Regression eats progress, either on the kick/hook, or over time. That progress has to be recollected, whether with prove or solo. You have a critical misunderstanding of the macro of the game, and how aggregate gen times function. Unless if one specific gen is part of your 3-gen (which is where Prove Thyself shines, by the way), survivors are objectively less efficient if they commit to one with PTS instead of splitting up on different ones.
3 survivors on one gen with PT finish that gen in 32.97 seconds at 2.73 c/s. A 53% instant regression with Eruption + Pain Res + Jolt + Pop are 47.7 charges. So, in that gen, the total time lost for survivors are only 17.47 seconds approx instead of the 47.7 that would take one survivor to get those charges. And this is comparing the worst case scenario of full instant regression perks build against only one survivor perk, without taking in count other perks that boost repair, great skill checks or toolboxes. So, more people in a gen, perks or not, would be always more time efficient.
Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how aggregate gen times function. Yeah, one person has to recollect the 47.7s of progress if they get hit by a 53% gen regression. And assuming 3 other people are on gens, their gens are completely unbothered and unpressured during this entire time, meaning the one person whose gen is being pressured can continue to harass it, forcing the killer to keep defending it, at which time the other three will get a 3-man get pop. As opposed to idiotically trying to overcommit to a single gen as a 4 man team, and getting pushed off over and over again (and possibly injured/downed) because you're trying to use PTS.
And the same concept applies to regression over time. But why even compare perk boosted regression against multiple survivors with PT when even against one without it, maxed out regression (in other words, CoB + OC, 175% to 300% with both active to 200% when CoB runs out) takes almost the double of time to fully regress a gen (160 seconds). A process one survivor can completely stop by slightly touching a gen for less than a second, by the way.
Yes, glad you can remember this time that COB+OC is 175% to 300%, instead of 275% to 400% like you were trying to argue that one time. If the survivor is touching the gen (which implies killer is in the area still), they're putting themselves in a compromised position going up to it, which means killer can secure an injure/pallet and only has to kick the gen again (and get another 2.5% of progress deletion, as well as reset COB timer).
So, even if I can agree that PT is not really the problem your arguments aren't valid points because even basekit progression speed is way too much compared with all the regression perks a killer can put in a build.
That's precisely because killer isn't supposed to be matching basekit progression speed. Killers are playing quad slowdown builds because the early game is so survivor sided that they have to fully overcommit to controlling a select few gens in the hopes of not losing the game against a coordinated swf. The issue here isn't that killer's max achievable regression will never match survivors' (it's not supposed to), it's that 7 gens are available early on, on maps of differing size, where 4 survivors can spawn on 4 separate gens.
5 -
Where is the killer in this equation, while 4 survivors are all on one gen? I'm rarely ever on a gen with more than one other person, and most of the time PT is nowhere in sight.
4 -
Ok, but also simple logic
If you buff the base numbers too much we have the 3 gen camping problem
Killers should get rewarded for hooks and ending chases quickly, giving killers rewards for progressing the game, like old POP.
Just buffing the base values makes for this boring scenarios we are facing with the COB+Overcharge+Eruption, also notice that this perks increase the base value of regression with no requirements.
The Killer shouldn't be able to match survivor progression, is simply bad for the game.
1 -
The point is the killer should match the survivors IF he play BETTER than them. With pop nerf you literally don't even punish the survivors by rooking, the only loss of efficiency is one guy coming for rescue. For the other side, if killer play poorly, he is high punished by gens poping and not progressing hooks, even more if he hookes equaly in the match, not killing no one and not being rewarded captalising the good chases that lead to hooks.
1 -
Thats the question, the game should not support survivors whem they make a mistake. Letting form a 3 gen is a survivor side mistake, and they have to take the consequences, as well as a killer that camps take the consequence of loosing all gens, this should be balanced around too?
2 -
What are you even trying to say here? Efficiency IS maximizing your time.
And what I'm saying is splitting 3 survivors to each gen is not as time efficient as doing it together in most cases. 5 gens with 1 survivor per gen would technically be 180 seconds (90 for 3, 90 for the other 2) and with 2 survivors on one gen and one in another would be... 180 (3 gens every 52.94s, 2 gens in 90s). What you are not taking in count is when those 2 survivors finish their 3 gens they still has 21.18 seconds left to go help the lonely survivor finish the last gen, so those 21.18 charges would be done in 10 seconds approx for a total of 170 approx (168.82s). So, your are right that is "less efficient" only if 2 or 3 survivors do all 5 gens together with only basekit c/s (214.3s with 3, 42.86s per gen).
But with PT the story changes, as 3 survivors would be able to do all 5 gens in 164.85 seconds. In the 2/1 scenario, the two survivor team would have 41.88 seconds free after finishing their 3 gens to go to the last, when the 3 would finish it 15.34 seconds for a total of 153.46 seconds for the 5 gens. So, splitting survivors on gens would almost never be as time efficient as doing them in groups of 2 survivors or more in most cases, more so if PT is used.
Not only that, but all of this is just if those survivors would do all the gens in succession without taking in count even walking time and with one of them out of the picture all the time. In a real situation the main factor here is the time survivors spent in one place where the killer can easily find them. One survivor on a gen would give 90 seconds for the killer to do what he is doing in that moment and come find him, kick the gen and chase him, making the gen lost real seconds per charge without the possibility of someone stopping it and even hook him and go to another gen to repeat the process. If 3 survivors with PT is doing that gen, and the killer is in a chase for example, most than probably that gen would be finish by the time he hook the chased survivor, with enough time to get the hell out of the gen and go somewhere else.
I don't know, I don't think it's so hard to understand.
Yes, so you get the injure on the one person that you caught working on that gen [...] and then turn right back around and go back to the other two. Survivors just gifted you a 3 man injure [...]
Because survivors are going to stand there letting you get them as soon as you can, of course. Tell me you don't play killer without telling me you don't play killer.
The reality of what would happen is you would start chasing one of them and the moment you turn your back on the gen the other two would continue to repair. Now you have 2 options: Commit to the chase of that one survivor until you at least hurt him while he is looping you and getting as far of that gen as possible and then come back, or drop the chase and come back after a short time. Whatever you do, by the time you come back to the gen those two other survivors would have keep progressing the gen. Start chasing one of the remaining two, and again, same lose/lose situation while the last survivor on the gen finish to repair it. And that if the injured survivor don't decide to come right behind you and help to finish it. And that is if you catch the first survivor in time to even come back, because as you already know 2 survivors do a full gen in 52.94 seconds with basekit progression and this gen was already progressed by 3 people, so depending on the progress done you maybe don't even have 10 seconds left.
And this happened to me. And I bet that every killer out there have lived this exact same situation in some point. Experienced survivors would gangbang that gen and won't let it go whatever you do, even less if the gen is almost done as then what they would do is not even try to escape, they will just get up to take the hit and avoid being grabbed, finish to repair the gen when you are in hit cooldown, and then start running.
The only cases where I can see what you said possible is if the killer has instadown like Bubba or stealth to surprise the survivors. For the rest, that is a lose/lose situation for the killer and that gen would be done whatever he does.
No, it makes them neither more nor less efficient. [...]
Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how aggregate gen times function.
I think is you who don't understand how charges and regression works. I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.
Regression affect charges, and the advantage regression gives the killer is more time to find, chase and hook survivors before they complete their objectives and escape. If a gen loses 47.7 charges and 3 survivors recover them in 17.47 seconds instead of 47.7, you are reducing the effectiveness of regressing those gens by removing gained time from the killer. If those charges where done by 3 survivors in first place, survivors would have only lost 17.47 seconds of their time to complete that objective instead of 47.7 seconds that they could have employed in other things like healing.
Charges of progress lost is only the same as time lost if only 1 survivor without any progression boost is doing a gen. Again, I think is a simple concept to understand.
Yes, glad you can remember this time that COB+OC is 175% to 300%, instead of 275% to 400% like you were trying to argue that one time.
If you read that, my point was that even 400% regression is not even enough, so it being 300% only proved my point further.
Anyway, I don't have a problem to accept when I'm wrong and correct myself. Would you do the same, or would you keep doing mental gymnastics to try to prove you are right?
[...] which means killer can secure an injure/pallet and only has to kick the gen again [...]
And give the survivor another 3 - 4 seconds between stopping in the gen, kicking it, and continue chasing for him to gain more distance and make you lose more time. Again, tell me you don't play killer without telling me you don't play killer.
Killers are playing quad slowdown builds because the early game is so survivor sided [...]
And why would that be? Maybe the fact that even basekit gen progression is absurdly fast, with SWF doing 2 to 3 gens by the time the killer do his first hook has something to do with it. And with PT even worst, more so taking in count all the other progression boost perks survivors have, plus toolboxes. So, we agree that progression is too much right now, right?...
The issue here isn't that killer's max achievable regression will never match survivors'
It is the issue when survivors complain non stop about gen regression meta over and over again wanting to nerf those perks without understanding precisely what you just explained there. And I guess it is the point OP was trying to make (not in the best way, I have to say).
But you are right, the real issue is with the current gen progression / rush meta, good survivors coordinating can do all 5 gens in 4-5 minutes, which forces most killers to stack regression perks and stuck to 3 gens to try to get the upper hand in the endgame. So, stop complaining about regression or start claiming for both progression and regression meta to be addressed. Simple as that.
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
With no requirements? Having to lose time kicking the gen and not letting a survivor just tap it to stop the process + having to down someone before they complete the affected gen in case of Eruption is not enough requirement for you?
Either way, again, 300% regression is not that much even compared to basekit progression. And if you need to see how it looks like in real time:
And "being boring for survivors" is not a valid argument unless you are trying to say it is a killer obligation to provide survivors their "rightful fun" and should not play in the most efficient way to win.
3 -
Thats all the statistics of yours to the ground, not too much impactful? compare the total time of base progression of ONE survivor and a base regression, its 5x the time to regress, not entering in PTS case.
0 -
4X not 5X
0 -
But buffing the base numbers will allow Killers to not run regression perks all the time
It will ease the pressure from having a long chase (or 2-3 Gens popping)
2 -
But how do you prevent camping 3 gens?
Its not healthy for the game if the killer can stall the game without making progress.
I would prefer for the gens to be blocked for 15s at the start of the match and making all survivors spawn together. That way survivors need to waist some time splitting up and can't get free pressure on gens.
And giving the killer reward for hooking survivors.
Reward the killer with more slowdown only if he gets downs. Increasing the base regression could incentivize killers to camp 3 gens. This meta is already a proof of what happens when base regression is too high with Overcharge+COB and the added delay of Eruption.
0 -
YOU PREVENT IT NOT MAKING A 3 GEN
1 -
If you want killer regression to be on par with survivor progression why would't a killer camp a 3 gen from the start?
Also saying that is avoiding the problem. You know 3 gens are problematic want to buff killer in ways that make that strat even better and then tell survivors to not 3 gen themselves.
Well, then come chase me and stop running back to the same 3 gens when the match has just started.
1 -
survivors have potential energy that was created to resist 3 generators, and given that the progression of the generator is stronger than the regression, you can run up to build energy and run back, so sooner or later your progression will fix the generator, or the killer will run after you, which allow other survivors to repair the remaining 2 generators
+ you also have a hidden alliance that does not allow killer to kick the generator
if you see gen 3 camp so often, then start using perks that counter it
1 -
What he said is not avoiding the problem, is the truth. If you don't do alternate gens or detect that the killer is defending 3 gens and break them instead of letting him get an strong setup is on you. Again, if you are SoloQ equip PT with Situational Awareness and a toolbox and you would get more chances to get more people in the gen and do it so fast by the time the killer is going to hook someone the gen would be already done.
In fact, a visual example for you and our friend @bunnyfengenthusiast :
"Survivors just gifted a 3 man injure" to the killer, eh?
1 -
I still have no idea what you're trying to say, but if your argument is that you do gens faster together with PTS than doing them together without PTS, then color me surprised.
On a more serious note, the first 3 gens is where PTS doesn't matter at all, at which point it becomes a vitally strong perk. And even then, you STILL want to be split up on gens (ideally 3 people on 3 gens on 2 gens left), so that the pressure is spread thin all across. The fact of the matter is, a killer pressuring one gen that has 3 people on it is objectively worse for the survivor team than a killer pressuring one gen that has one person on it.
Also, I have 3.3k hours with about a 75-25 killer to survivor ratio. My aggregate killer prestige level is around 200, my aggregate survivor prestige level is about 50. If you're not getting free hits out of people repeatedly hopping back on gens as soon as you leave the area, then you're probably not as good as you think you are.
Again, you're still confused on what aggregate gen times are, so let me break it down for you as simply as possible: if three survivors are on one gen, and they get 47.7s of progress on it in 17.47s, that's 47.7s of progress on a single gen that the killer can easily pressure. Now, assume the killer shows up at the gen, kicks it, and the survivors are committed to it. Killer loosely chases someone, gets an injure, comes back to the gen, injures someone else, loosely hovers around it again, rinse and repeat. Survivors are inching that gen towards more progress (say 90s), but there is LESS AGGREGATE progress being done, because all 3 survivors are trying to commit to this one gen. As opposed to having the killer delete 47.7s of progress, which WON'T be recovered by a single survivor in 17.47s, but TWO OTHER survivors on two other gens will manage to get 52.41s of AGGREGATE gen progress, with the killer only being able to pressure ONE of these gens at once. I don't understand why you're not understanding this: the longer killer keeps survivors off gens, the more time he has to win the game. If the survivors are overcommitting to a single gen that they keep getting pushed off of, they're giving the killer free pressure.
SWFs doing 2-3 gens before first hook very likely means they split up on gens to begin with, meaning PTS made very little difference. If a SWF is cranking out a single gen together before killer gets his first hook, they are actually throwing.
And the early game is survivor sided, not because "basekit gen progression is so fast", but because at the start of the game, four survivors can spawn on four different gens, out of 7 available gens, on a map which may or may not be massive, against a killer who may or may not have 0 map mobility. Basekit corrupt would be a bandaid fix, but would be a massive temporary solution to the current meta.
And survivors (as well as killers) are complaining about the current gen reg meta because it's a boring, stale meta. I loathe the current meta, as a killer main. Killers aren't supposed to be matching basekit gen progression, nor should they be striving to get close to it. The early game simply needs to be less survivor-sided so killers stand a chance outside of early tunneling+3 genning.
1 -
And you want this to be even easier and possible on every killer.
Applies to you too
1 -
I already answered to that video in another comment. Final conclusion: Survivors fault and lack of coordination. Even the survivor streamer said it explicitly in one moment of the video (something like "they left him 3 gens").
Watch it again, and observe the amount of times the last gen could have being done but doesn't because the streamer is alone repairing it. If I find the comment I did in the day where I get in more detail I would post it.
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
At some point Hens stopped being effective and started memeing with them. Hand shaking and all that. This is current dbd. What stopps you from selecting your 3gen in first 3s of the match and doing what Hens did?
Now suppose devs buffed regression exactly as you ask of them. Why as a survivor should I even bother with the game? There's no way I can finish gens. I can't escape without doing them. So why?
In conclusion - there's already too much regression in the game as is (I am not talking about basekit - in fact I would buff basekit regression and nerf all regression perks) and killers can very much replicate what Hens did
0 -
The only thing that is clear to me is that you are confusing "time spent" repairing with "charges done" in a gen. That, and you have an strange way of saying that in your opinion, having the same number of charges progressed in multiple gens is better as it would be harder for the killer to regress the same amount of progress of multiple gens at once.
What I still don't understand is this part...
As opposed to having the killer delete 47.7s of progress, which WON'T be recovered by a single survivor in 17.47s, but TWO OTHER survivors on two other gens will manage to get 52.41s of AGGREGATE gen progress
... and why the hell you keep calling that "AGGREGATE gen progress" and mixing it with time. It's just charges, in multiple gens. A gen have 90 charges, a single survivor fix it at a rate of 1 charge per second, o c/s. Multiple survivor in one gen do the same amount of charges at higher rate, hence, in less time. Of course a single survivor won't recover 47.7 charges in 17.47 seconds, he would recover that charges in 47.7 seconds. But if a killer regresses 47.7 charges that took 3 survivors 17.47 seconds, the time lost is less than if a single survivor would have do the gen.
I think is simple to understand, but I will break it down for you: If you spent all day painting your house alone, you would be all day doing it and don't have time for anything else. If you call two pals to help you and paint it all in just 3 hours, you now have the rest of the day to do whatever you want. And if for some reason someone comes and mess with the painting and you have to start all over again, instead of wasting all day you would have only wasted 3 hours. Call another pal, and now you can recover that 3 hours lost by doing the same work in only 2. Easier to understand now?
To conclude and again, no, it is not better to have only one survivor on multiple gens and I already explained why: You would always do gen faster with at least 2 survivors in one gen (as no matter how, the last gens would always be done faster than 180 seconds), charges lost done faster aren't as punishing as charges at base c/s lost by regression, and because one survivor have to sit for 90 second in the gen without being able to heal, unhook or do anything else until he completes it while 3 survivors would only spent 42.86, gaining 47.14 seconds to do whatever they want to do. That, and by doing the gen faster you would reduce the risk of the killer coming and "meshing up your painting work".
Also, and again, I won't say is impossible for your hypothetical "3 survivors in one gen is free injuries for killer" to happen, but that is not what usually happens. I posted a video for you a couple of comments up showing what usually happens in a situation where 3 survivors are on the same gen and the killer comes:
I wish this would be a "gifted 3 man injure" fest everytime it happens, but normally it will only mean that the gen is lost forever. With PT, in 30 to 40 seconds, while a killer would need to stack all regression perks available to regress that in 160 seconds. So, can we agree now that both regression and progression perks should be rebalanced?
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
Found it:
The first and biggest mistake, as the streamer says in the 4:40, is let the killer to have 3 gen close by. By the way he is talking they wasn't a full SWF, but right now an squad of 4 is pretty good at doing the middle gens so the killer end with each one of the 3 gens in a corner of the map.
The second mistake: They are 4, but they are not coordinating to do the gens. In the 7:40 the killer was chasing someone and the generator was 1/4 fixed. Two survivors only needs 52.94 seconds to do one full gen, 46.04 with PT, and a lot of progress was done. By the time he came back 2/3 of the gen was done. If someone was "pressuring the gen with him" like the streamer survivor said (maybe if he had Situational Awareness [Note: In the original post I made an error and said "PT"] so the others could see the aura of the gen he was repairing), that gen would be done by the time he got there. And later, at 8:25 it happened again, were he is chasing one survivor and the streamer is alone repairing. And again in 12:00. And yet again in 13:10. Where are the other two survivors? That's four wasted opportunities to do the last gen.
So, your "example" of how those perk could lock a game is one case where survivors wasn't playing optimally, with the one killer that can pressure a gen without even being there by leaving a guard, and when they have 4 chances to complete the gen but wasn't able because they weren't even trying.
And I'm not asking for regression to be buffed. On the contrary, survivor mains are the ones in this forum asking for regression perks to be nerfed non-stop without realizing that perk boosted regression compared to basekit progression is just not enough, against progression perks even less.
So, as I just said just a comment above this one, both regression and progression perks should be rebalanced, that's what I'm saying. I didn't even mention to touch base progression or regression, but I have to agree with you that it would be a good way to do it.
0 -
Cool you want a situational killer in a situational game where they let form a 3 gen backup your argument to "nah, regression is fine"
0 -
YOU as ONE survivor its true you cant do nothing about it, but the game is 4v1 or you are only counting your impact in doing gens? the killer regression dont even match ONE survivor base progression, imagine 4, true conclusion, you probably dont play killer often to see the diff.
1 -
situational? What prevents you to take this build, get the offering and doing that EVERY.SINGLE.GAME from first second of the game? Just say you can have those 4 gens, because I can hold indefinitely these 3. Done. Because you indeed can hold it. Especially if devs would listen to what you ask of them to do.
Again. Regression is ALREADY NOT fine. It's over tuned. And I don't mean base regression. I mean 4-stacked regression perks having eruption, call of brine and overcharge (and say POP - the only perk that is underwhelming in such a build).
And if you say it's just problem of dead dawg - then you are wrong again. There are more maps you can do this in. RPD's main is easiest example (but sure this one depends on RNG a little). Haddonfield always has such a 3gen, but the distance is large enough that in the map would become impossible only if devs made it your way. Wrecker's yard is yet another one, but this would be highly dependent on map RNG (there's no fixed 3gen there - you need luck to make it). And there's always some change it will happen in any other small map like the game or midwitch.
0 -
But then if Base Gen regression was increased... then the 4 Gen slowdown builds wouldn't be a thing
But then having one perk that does equal base progression would be a thing... Call Of Brine which only lasts for 60 seconds (but then again they could lower it to 30 seconds)
A 3 Gen doesn't happen in every match... you want to lower the Camping and Tunneling... then give us better base Gen regression
I brought it up in another thread that I made... People want to complain and suggest things that are the symptoms of the real issue
1 -
I already wrote it. Taking 3-4 regression perk should not be a (meta) thing. The game should be rebalanced so, that you are effectively buffed when taking 0-1 regression perk, don't see any change when taking 1-2 regressions and see quite a nerf (compared to current state) when taking 3-4 regression perks. To get this result all you need to do is buff base regression and nerf regression perks.
Being able to guard 3 gens the whole game should never (under no RNG or map) be a good possibility/choise. It should not be a choise even against 3 survivors (because if you leave it like this, then super-focused tunnel 1 out into guarding loose 3gen would be a thing)
0 -
But that's the thing... with base regression being so low that means that a lot of players feel the need to bring 3-4 Gen regression perks
But there's a way to work around it... but that would mean a re-coding the game
2 -
What recoding? All you need to do is change constants. Say base regression being 0,5c/s instead of 0,25c/s but all regression perks being cut in half in effect (this is just gross estimate, some more serious math/tryouts would be needed to get actually good numbers)
1
