Wow Thanks for the Nurse Nerf Bhvr. She went from S++ to S+
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Honestly, I think Blight is a pretty good example of what a top-tier Killer SHOULD look like. His power is pretty disgusting in the right hands, but he still plays by the rules of the game for the most part. I haven't seen him get anywhere near the level of complaints that pre-nerf Spirit did, despite being in the exact same position as the second-best Killer in the game, and the most popular in high MMR. The only things I'd say are really worth looking into at all are his addons, not his basekit.
I really haven't seen the dynamic you're talking about in DbD discourse. It's usually been a constant back-and-forth between Survivor and Killer mains. Killers will get buffed in one update, then nerfed in the next. Survivors get buffed in one update, nerfed in the next. Moris are nerfed, then keys are nerfed. Killers get basekit buffs, then Survivors get solo queue buffs.
Well, you'll notice that the complaints about Spirit have largely ceased since her nerfs, and they didn't just move on to Blight as one might expect, him being the new second-best Killer and all. No, almost all of the complaints are centered around Nurse exclusively now. Survivors will probably find something new to complain about (My bets are on perks or tunneling), but at the end of the day, people hate Nurse for a reason. She ends chases in a ridiculously short timeframe, and nothing can stand in her way. Take steps to address the reasons people hate her, and the hate decreases accordingly.
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At the end of the day, this. They've boiled DBD down to its absolute, most refined essence.
And it is looping.
Looping and nothing else.
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While I do think Nurse does need some more nerfs, her recent changes were important and needed. Yes she's still the strongest killer in the game and genuinely good Nurses are barely going to feel the nerfs whatsoever, but it's still better than nothing, and after the changes settle, I'm sure BHVR will be open to further tweaks.
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again it's not my opinion in that case, but it's the general opinion that people have regarding the nurse and i've propose a solution for this... personally speaking i don't like her, but i don't think that she should be changed because as you said it gives more variety to the game (and honestly i found the last changes about her addons/attacks after blinking dumb since the only way to catch survivors for her is to use her power)
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The nurse does not need to be further nerfed.
She didn't need it in 6.4, and doesn't need it in 6.5.
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"but he still plays by the rules of the game for the most part"
That's the problem with this kind of talk.
The people who are against the nurse have "decided" that "according to the rules of DbD" the nurse is unnatural and is "violating" those rules.
You can't decide to create imaginary rules just to provide material for your argument.
This doesn't make sense. The question is not what a killer can or cannot do, the question is whether a killer is viable or conversely impossible to deal with.
It can be repeated as often as necessary, but the nurse is not unbeatable. She wasn't in 6.4 and she isn't in 6.5.
Yes, the nurse can walk through walls.
Yes, the nurse can walk through the pallets.
Yes, the nurse can go through windows.
Yes, the nurse is the most powerful killer in the game.
Yes, the nurse can move quickly from one floor to another.
But that doesn't change the fact that she is not unbeatable.
And it doesn't change the fact that Nurse has counterplay.
And you can feel that it bothers you. But it doesn't change anything.
"people hate Nurse for a reason. She ends chases in a ridiculously short timeframe, and nothing can stand in her way"
On the one hand, if you want to be specific, then you need to rephrase your sentence.
"SOME" people hate the nurse.
And not for the reasons you suggest.
These people hate the nurse because she asks them to play differently than they would like. And that they just don't want to improve, preferring to complain, over and over again.
They hate the nurse because she offers something different than what the other 29 killers require.
You complainers have created YOUR vision of the game, in which all killers are walkers, because YOU have decided that if originality is something YOU don't like, then it shouldn't exist.
Without thinking for a second about all the players who like to use the nurse.
Without thinking for a second about all the players who like the Nurse and its unique gamedesign, and who play it without trying to tryhard like sweaty killers.
Without thinking about the players who get all the salt in the world because they dare to play the only original killer of DbD.
And then they come and talk to me about equality and all these nice considerations for a better world.
What hypocrisy, what selfishness.
I really advise you to go and take lessons with Hens and his team, or other survivors of their level.
Or move on to another game.
An anecdote to finish.
Just last night, I played against a team on the new map.
I did 3K, because the last one got the hatch.
The end chat? We chatted for 2-3 minutes laughing, joking about some funny things that happened in the game. One of them said "gg, although I would have preferred to get out, lol".
AND THAT'S IT.
This is what the spirit of the game is supposed to be. You try, you try, you play, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
When I play against nurses as a survivor, I don't care if I die.
You know what the only thing I regret, when I play a nurse? That most of the time, my mates and I are not good enough to play her, because then the game doesn't last very long, and I can't train as much as I would like against her.
So when I see the incessant complaining, crying and more selfish requests we see on the forum, I really wonder what part of the DbD population it is representative of.
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There is also something else that is sad, and that gives a good idea of the mentality of some people.
(first of all, I'm not saying that those who defend the nurse are all nice and those who are against the nurse are all bad, I've seen some people ask for the nurse to be buff because they couldn't play her... anyway)
When someone says something that goes in the direction of the "anti-nurse", then his words are taken up, repeated, amplified, and become almost an anthem.
On the other hand, strangely ...
- when we ask those who criticize the nurse to show how they play against her, nobody answers anymore;
- when we talk about the fact that even the best nurses in the game can be challenged by strong teams, nobody answers anymore;
- when we tell them that YES the flashlight IS effective against the nurse, nobody answers anymore; or else to say that it is insignificant;
- when we tell them to go see what Dan can do with a flashlight against a nurse, nobody answers anymore;
- when we tell them to go see what Dan can do against a nurse, and his level of "anti-nurse", nobody answers anymore;
- when we tell them that in 6.4, even the best nurses could have trouble, and therefore even more so in 6.5, nobody answers anymore;
- when we tell them that it is not what the nurse can do that matters, but whether she is viable or not (and she is), no one answers anymore;
- when you point out that even the best nurses in a tournament play dirty and camp/tunnel to make sure they win (which goes against the whole concept of an all-powerful person), no one answers;
In short, when FACTS are shown, strangely enough ... no one responds anymore.
Is there such a thing as a higher level of hypocrisy and selfishness?
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She got hit with the nerf hammer huge. Nurse, purely at base without add ons is simply a good killer who needs to be learned. With Add-ons she was GREAT and didn't take as much time, but since most of her add ons are bad to say the least, there's nothing aiding new players hugely like before and she doesn't have benefits high skilled players could abuse. She's in a good spot rn
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When the gameplay of people like Hens is brought up, tournament-winning players who say that Nurse has no counterplay, you don't care.
When people explain that the main reason Nurse can be challenged by good teams has nothing to do with learning how to chase her and everything to do with good macro play, you don't care.
When people point out that the Flashlight buys you an extra 2-3 seconds at best against a good Nurse, and that a Medkit would save you more time in the long run, you don't care.
When people point out that the top comp players in the world say that there's nothing you can do against a good Nurse but work on your macro play, you don't care.
When people point out that the existence of bad nurses doesn't prove anything, you don't care.
When people point out that a good Nurse has basically no counterplay, you move the goalposts and claim that all that matters is whether or not she's viable, or whether or not you can win against her.
When people point out that Nurse's main limitation is that it's only physically possible for her to dish out so many hits in a certain timeframe, and that good macro play is the main form of "counterplay" against her, you don't care.
In short, when people point out the many, many obvious flaws in your reasoning, you ignore/dismiss it and act like you won the argument anyway.
Post edited by Monlyth on0 -
Can you show me where Hens said Nurse has no counterplay?
I'd find that kind of limiting, coming from him. You know, given his massive winstreaks with his team (And also his more genial nature which implies he'd never say something so ignorantly divisive when his own experience runs counter to it)
I also suggest you stop repeating the phrase 'good Nurse'. It's not helping you.
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I am not avoiding any argument, and I am completely willing to discuss it.
"When people explain that the main reason Nurse can be challenged by good teams has nothing to do with learning how to chase her and everything to do with good macro play, you don't care."
I confess I don't understand what you're saying: if a survivor team manages to get good results against a nurse, it has nothing to do with knowing how to make chases against her?
"When people point out that the Flashlight buys you an extra 2-3 seconds at best against a good Nurse, and that a Medkit would save you more time in the long run, you don't care."
I never said that this or that object is better or worse, I was only referring to the people who are very happy to say "The flashlight is useless against the nurse. The flashlight IS useful against the nurse, if it is used correctly. But I completely agree that everyone has the right to use whatever object they want.
"When people point out that the top comp players in the world say that there's nothing you can do against a good Nurse but work on your macro play, you don't care."
What do you mean by "work on your macro play" ?
"When people point out that the existence of bad nurses doesn't prove anything, you don't care."
I don't remember saying that the existence of beginning nurses proved anything? What is it supposed to prove ?
"When people point out that a good Nurse has basically no counterplay, you move the goalposts and claim that all that matters is whether or not she's viable, or whether or not you can win against her."
The phrase that comes up very often and always makes me laugh is, "The nurse has no counterplay." Because that is an absolutely false phrase.
On the other hand, it's obvious that a nurse has a more complicated counterplay, but that's obvious, and everyone knows it.
"When people point out that Nurse's main limitation is that it's only physically possible for her to dish out so many hits in a certain timeframe, and that good macro play is the main form of "counterplay" against her, you don't care."
Again, what do you mean by "macro" ?
"When the gameplay of people like Hens is brought up, tournament-winning players who say that Nurse has no counterplay, you don't care."
Are you saying that Hens said that the nurse has no counterplay?
So no, contrary to what you seem to want to indicate, I am always open to any discussion.
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Then why do you misrepresent the people you're arguing against so much? Most of the talking points you claimed nobody answers have already been answered in this thread, multiple times in some instances; is it really so hard to go back and reread?
I confess I don't understand what you're saying: if a survivor team manages to get good results against a nurse, it has nothing to do with knowing how to make chases against her?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Every trick in the book against a Nurse is next to useless against a good Nurse. Comp players mostly just hold W and die far away from any generators that are being worked on.
I never said that this or that object is better or worse, I was only referring to the people who are very happy to say "The flashlight is useless against the nurse. The flashlight IS useful against the nurse, if it is used correctly. But I completely agree that everyone has the right to use whatever object they want.
If an item meant to help you in chase gives you strictly worse results than an item that just heals you after you've taken the hit, it's useless.
What do you mean by "work on your macro play" ?
Not surprised a player defending Nurse doesn't know what "Macro play" means... macro play is everything outside of chase. Deciding where to go, what generators to work on, what direction to lead the Killer, what is the most efficient use of your time. In other words, your chase mechanics are irrelevant to improving against Nurse.
The phrase that comes up very often and always makes me laugh is, "The nurse has no counterplay." Because that is an absolutely false phrase.
If you got hit by something and there was nothing you could do to prevent it, then that thing has no counterplay. All of Nurse's "counterplay" mechanics are so heavily tilted in her favor that a good Nurse renders all of it useless.
Are you saying that Hens said that the nurse has no counterplay?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. In his latest video, Hens said, and I quote, "On a high level, the only way to counter Nurse is to die in the right spot away from generators." So, who are you to say he's wrong?
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You are the first person EVER I have seen on these forums to use the term "macro" in any way in a discussion.
Again you say counter plays are tilted in her favor how so? If they are in her favor then they are not COUNTER plays. You seem to be the one moving the goal post and use the same song and dace as a rebuttal without going deeper into any of it in hopes someone will get tired of your banter and leave the discussion so you count it as a "win"
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Then you haven't been paying attention. A quick search yields plenty of other people using the term "macro play".
If they are tilted in her favor they are not COUNTER plays. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. They're not counters. They're so-called "counters" that are rendered irrelevant against a good Nurse.
You and everyone else defending Nurse in this thread seem to willfully ignore, misrepresent or misunderstand practically everything I say, because to do otherwise would mean admitting just how much truth there is to what I say.
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As long as you keep representing "good Nurse"s as an insurmountable, uncounterable monolith, the entirety of your argument is not just disingenuous. It's wrong.
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I've made it clear multiple times now that Nurse is not unbeatable, but there's a big difference between lacking counterplay and being unbeatable; see pre-rework Legion. They lacked counterplay in chase, but they were not unbeatable because there's more to the game than whether or not you can outplay the Killer in a chase.
So, again, stop misrepresenting me.
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You are the only one misrepresenting. There are plenty of counters to good nurses.
Heck, they're not even great nurses. How is this getting passed you?
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Comp players would disagree. So what makes you think you know better than Hens how to counter a Nurse?
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By the way, I literally just asked Hens if he believes Nurse has counterplay.
"Absolutely."
He elaborated further, but it's clear it would be lost on you.
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Really? Because I just looked at Hens' latest YouTube video and I can give you the full quote, one that you can go look up yourself, right now, in the video's description: "On a high level, the only way to counter Nurse is to die in the right spot away from generators."
I can substantiate my claims with more than just hearsay. Can you?
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Really. I went into the stream and asked him, because why take your bastardization of his quote at face value when I can get the answer straight from the source? If you don't believe me you can look up today's VOD, he was playing Freddy on Swamp when I asked him, you shouldn't have trouble finding it. You know, if you insist on assuming I would make it up.
Because that is what you are doing. You are latching onto a single quote, exaggerating and distorting it, and then parading it around as the end-all answer to this discussion.
Projection really is self-incriminating.
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Fine, I went and looked it up (Glad to see you took the opportunity to badmouth me behind my back, by the way). Even asked him myself right before a Knight match on Garden of Joy. To paraphrase slightly, he told me "In theory, it has no counterplay. If a Nurse is trying to kill you, you're going to die unless they're omega-boosted, but the same is true of a NOED Bubba tunneling you. That doesn't mean there's no counterplay. You can counterplay a Nurse, she's just really strong."
So, fine, I was wrong. I will not claim that Nurse has no counterplay whatsoever. But that doesn't mean she's fine as-is, so let's move on to other talking points, shall we?
Such as, Nurse is too strong. Luckily, we have an easy fix that would hardly even require any new code: Spasmodic Breath basekit.
Nurse's counterplay is tilted too heavily in her favor (Pre-nerf Spirit comes to mind).
Nurse ignores too many gameplay mechanics (If Nurse knows where you are and is within ~24 meters of you, she can hit you, very quickly and consistently at that. No exceptions. No other Killer can claim that).
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You cited one comp player. You don’t get to pretend that Hens represents everyone
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So on what exactly do you base your opinions that Nurse is just fine as-is, and everyone who complains about her or says she needs changes are all just noobs? What exactly do I need to prove to you to convince you that Nurse needs changes?
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"Such as, Nurse is too strong. Luckily, we have an easy fix that would hardly even require any new code: Spasmodic Breath basekit."
To say that the nurse is above all other killers, yes, of course; to say that she requires much more control from her opponents than other killers, of course, is quite correct.
That someone (you, or anyone else) does NOT appreciate having to deal with a killer of this difficulty is completely understandable, but that doesn't mean she's not fine the way she is, nor does it mean that any of this is anything other than a feeling.
And again, this proposition about the Spasmodic breath is not the consequence of a real problem, but simply an opinion that does not reflect a reality.
"Nurse's counterplay is tilted too heavily in her favor (Pre-nerf Spirit comes to mind)."
Since we're talking about the nurse's counterplay, I wouldn't say it's leaning in her favor.
Rather, I would say that it is the most complicated counterplay in DbD, as it will require the survivors to not only play differently than against any other killer, to be much sharper in their actions and decisions, and to surround themselves with a really strong team if they are to compete with the very good nurses.
Afterwards, of course, against nurses who are struggling, even if the 4 survivors are not experts, they will still be able to get good results, of course.
"Nurse ignores too many gameplay mechanics (If Nurse knows where you are and is within ~24 meters of you, she can hit you, very quickly and consistently at that. No exceptions. No other Killer can claim that)."
The problem with this sentence is that you are just talking about the gamedesign. Yes, the nurse is the killer with the most powerful move. Indeed, she can be the most oppressive; of course, if you compare her to other killers, for the same mistake, in front of the nurse, it can be much more oppressive.
But that's just the definition of a nurse.
That's what she is. And that's what survivors have to deal with when they face her. And they can.
So maybe some people don't like the fact that they have to raise their level of defense higher than the other killers, but that's just a feeling, an opinion.
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So let's take this argument at face value. That every complaint about her is just based in "feelings". How does that invalidate the argument?
Because this is a game, and if a game's mechanic is making the game less fun for a significant portion of the playerbase, it is a poorly designed mechanic.
And more importantly, how do you justify any of the nerfs in the past 7 years if not with "This feels bad to play against"? What was so special about Spirit that made her warrant a nerf? How about Ruin? Decisive Strike? Dead Hard? Moris? Keys? The basekit Killer buffs? I mean, Spirit wasn't even the strongest Killer at the time. In every case, the game was, if not balanced, then at least functional at the time. Comp players at the highest skill level could have a balanced match, depending on the ruleset.
So what is it? What's the secret ingredient that makes you say "Yes, a change is warranted"?
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You took a single statement from a normally very objective streamer, turned it into hyperbole, and then argued that hyperbole as fact even after getting called out and then dragged out the interaction pointlessly.
I'm not interested in your moving goal post.
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I base my opinions in my game experience (over 3000 hours) using and playing against Nurse. I am able to play against and have seen survivors who know how to play against Nurse. Even when I have a bad chase against her, I usually last longer than the vast majority of my teammates. I can’t draw any other conclusion than people don’t want to learn. As Nurse, an alarming number of people either don’t try to dodge me at all or they try to loop tiles as if she is a basic killer. The playerbase is the problem, not Nurse.
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And you, along with your fellow Nurse mains, have posted wall of text after wall of text attacking my character, insulting my skill, claiming that I didn't respond to certain talking points when I clearly did, and taking every opportunity to berate and degrade me, even when I'm not present. But it's all justified when your team does it, right?
I had the spine to admit that I was wrong. I've tried to be as cordial as possible. I've taken the time to explain myself in detail multiple times, even when I had to repeat myself. I cited my sources and used full, direct, verifiable quotes, giving you every opportunity to prove me wrong. But oh, I was wrong on this one specific point, so now it's all intolerable and everything I say is invalid?
If you're not interested in having a good-faith discussion on Nurse, just say so.
So what solution do you propose to fix this issue with the playerbase? Because fighting against the playerbase is usually a losing battle. It's hard enough for Survivors to learn how to loop normally; learning how to play against a Killer that throws all the conventional looping mechanics out the window on top of everything else is asking a lot, especially considering it's hard to even tell what good play looks like against Nurse. Because even the best Nurse loopers still get caught anyway in a pretty short timeframe, what with her being god-tier and all.
Nurse is just one of 30 Killers; having high-level play revolve around her chase mechanics and nothing else is a jarring experience to say the least, and I'm sure it discourages a lot of people, particularly people who have gotten good at conventional looping, from getting into competitive play.
Imagine, if you will, a Survivor who has, through trials and tribulations, become an expert at looping. They know how to get the most out of every pallet, every window, every tile, every little prop with collision. And then, as the time invested honing their skills finally begins to pay off, they reach the MMR where it's all Nurse mains. And realize that, unless they wanna start throwing some games, playing against Nurse is their life now. All the skills they've learned up to this point are worthless. Now this Survivor has to learn chase mechanics from scratch, all over again, specifically for this one Killer. If that's not a moment likely to make them go "I don't wanna play Survivor anymore", I dunno what is.
Post edited by Monlyth on0 -
Sorry. I don't care about the slights you've experienced from other forum goers, feel free to call them out. I'm talking about your behavior, you can do your two wrongs calculus with someone else, too.
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Well then, why don't we talk about the time you insulted my intelligence and claimed that Hens' words "Would be lost on me" and refused to elaborate, forcing me to go to Hens' channel and dig up the clip myself if I wanted to hear any of what he actually had to say (And you wouldn't tell me where he said it until I asked you)? Or how you decided to take a dig at me on stream while you were asking Hens your question?
If you're gonna be this spiteful over something as simple as game balance, I can see why you're not interested in talking much further.
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But it's beyond talking about balance at this point because everyone who voice thier opinion that was counter to yours was met with a "No Your Wrong" style statement then you giving a misquote by Hens as your reason. You have also made blanket statements with nothing backing it as well.
With how you reacted to everyone it seems like you don't want to have a civil discussion if people don't share your opinion.
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His words were, in fact, lost on you.
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It's not a misquote; I quoted it from the description of Hens' latest YouTube video, word for word. Go to his channel, see for yourself. The issue is the quote was missing context.
Exactly how am I supposed to disagree with someone without saying "No you're wrong, here's why you're wrong"?
I have been quite civil in this thread with people who do not show active hostility towards me and throw constant accusations or insults at me. Such as how my conversation with AJStylez ended, after he made it clear he meant no personal offense.
And, well, it's easy to feel insulted when the entire argument of most people defending Nurse in this thread boils down to a personal attack: "Everyone who doesn't like Nurse and wants her changed is just bad".
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Your contribution to this thread so far has been fact-checking me (And, well, good on you for that), and then spending all the rest of your time parading it around as the end-all answer to this discussion while doing your best to antagonize me in the process.
Projection, indeed.
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I contributed exactly what I intended to do, all the slights you perceive after the fact are a personal problem.
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Your scenario is flawed. If someone has truly mastered looping (which is not true for most players), learning how to play against Nurse isn’t that big of a push. My solution? BHVR should focus on teaching people how to play and not nerfing things simply because people complain. I put in time to learn how to use Nurse and how to play against her; no one is exempt from learning because they chose to boot up the game.
At the risk of sounding like a “back in my day” person, why can’t people devote time to learning a game? If they choose not to, fine, but they have no right to complain about losing to someone who has put in more time and is better at the game.
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I actually think without the basic attack she feels much weaker. Starstruck on her was insane.
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What makes you say it isn't that big a push? Little of what applies to conventional looping applies to playing against Nurse. No windows, no pallets, no tiles. Climbing to the top of a 2-story building barely even slows her down.
And I think a lot of people don't really feel like they're playing Dead by Daylight anymore when they're playing against Nurse, they're playing Nurse by Daylight. And given how differently it usually plays, and how often you lose anyway even if you're really good at it, it's not to a lot of people's liking.
In my experience, when there's one character that's so meta-definingly powerful, and changes the rules so radically that the whole game revolves around their abilities instead of the game's actual core mechanics, the playerbase hates it.
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I’m saying that if a player has put in the time to master looping, learning Nurse isn’t that hard. Part of my point though is that most haven’t mastered looping either.
As for the meta/mechanics thing, it simply isn’t true. This isn’t a board game and no one gets to make house rules. People love spamming that “she breaks the rules” when the reality is that there are no rules. BHVR has put her in the game, therefore she plays within the game. People not liking something because it’s different isn’t justification for a nerf.
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I mean, yeah, the devs are essentially gods, and what they say goes, but that's not a great attitude to have going into game design. The unused pallets and windows sitting around the map do not go unnoticed by Survivors. And having to forget everything you know about looping, the thing you've spent most of your time up to this point trying to master, just to accommodate a single character out of 30 does not sit well with most Survivors.
And if a player plays through your game as instructed (In this case, listening to you when you tell them to forget all about looping for this one specific character) and they did not have fun, that is 100% the designer's fault.
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The problem is that “fun” is code for “I don’t like losing” in most cases. The devs seem to not understand this problem.
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Sure, people generally don't like losing, but you don't see anywhere near the volume of complaints about Blight as you do about Nurse, despite him being much more common on the ladder. The consensus is that he "plays by the rules" and so doesn't feel as jarring to play against. Most suggestions for changes to Blight are simple number tweaks and addon changes instead of overhauls.
The mark of truly exceptional multiplayer game design is being able to consistently deliver a fun experience, win or lose (Even if the former is usually more fun than the latter).
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I guarantee you blight will be next. First we had Spirit threads, then pyramid head, then Deathslinger. All were nerfed into the ground
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Well, sure, Blight's gonna be changed, some of his addons are pretty overtuned, but I doubt you're gonna see people clamoring for a rework anytime soon, like they have been for Nurse. And Spirit/Pyramid Head are both still A tier, nobody complains about them.
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Yes, no one complains about them because they aren’t used anymore. BHVR gutted them and now almost no one uses them because they aren’t worth using.
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A-tier isn't worth using? I mean, sure, top MMR might not have that many of them, but that's more because Blight and Nurse are just on a whole different level from everyone else. Do enough nerfs to the outliers on the Killer roster, more generic Killer buffs, and what Killer you play at the highest skill level becomes much more a matter of personal preference.
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Nerfing the nurse was fine, but giving her the at obnoxious overly loud chase music makes her literally unplayable unless you mute the game. Who thought that was a good addition, or way to balance her power?
Post edited by BoxGhost on0 -
I love how we got the exact two nerfs the community was asking for and yet, still more complaints. Just admit you really wanted her gutted, not balanced out.
Reminds me of all the hate for current Dead Hard. The invincibility and distance got removed and yet here we are, still the most complained about perk by Killers. Why can't we just be happy for once?
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From the moment someone asks for a character to be nerfed because the reason is that he/she doesn't like to play against, or can't get good results against (when it is nevertheless possible), it is an opinion, the consequence of a feeling, and not a concrete fact / reality.
To say that if a mechanic is not fun, it is because it is badly designed, is a fallacious argument, because it is a huge shortcut.
A player will not be able to be 100% ecstatic about every element of the game.
Some players don't like Legion, some don't like the Clown, some don't like this or that perk, some don't like this or that addon, some don't like getting hooked in less than 10s, some don't like it, etc.
But these are just opinions.
A fact will always prevail over an opinion.
There will always be players who don't like the nurse; that's not new. It is a unique killer, the only one with this difficulty and displacement. And the only one that requires its opponents to try harder, and be more coordinated.
Justify the previous nerves? Some are understandable, some are not.
Taking away the ability to have 5 blinks with 0 cooldown is completely understandable.
Making it so she can't use NOED or Starstruck anymore, I also completely understand.
Removing her recharge and range addons was not necessary.
Depends on the nerf.
Just because a nerf is put in place doesn't necessarily mean it was necessary and/or justified.
However, for example, even though I don't agree with removing her range and recharge addons, I figure it will make her a little less oppressive.
It will also help to see which players, on the other hand, don't know how to make any effort, and would rather continue to complain just because "I don't like the nurse, I don't want to make any effort."
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