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Halve exhaustion for dh
So in a match with the night I successfully deadharded 4 times and each time I went down. That is a 100% success rate on me using the perk and a 0% success rate of the game implementing the perk as designed. I would tend to think that is a major problem. I know nothing will be done, but at least it is recorded so others do not think they are alone dealing with this frustration..
Next game was a blight and I successfully dh four times and only two of the times I went down.
This tells me there is something wrong with the parameters for the perk, that sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.
Since this has been a problem for years, I guess that is behaviors way of saying they cannot fix it. Perhaps they need to investigate other ways of fixing the problem. What if you halved the exhaustion recover rate for dh? You can't fix it to work correctly obviously, but you could show the players some love and at least make it easier to try again.
What do you think?
Comments
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You… you want a 20 second cooldown on Dead Hard?
Do you realise how short that is?
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I swear if the survivors are given the opportunity to kill the killer if they press 2 buttons, then the survivors will flood the entire forum with tears saying why should we press 2 buttons and not 1
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Just because you pressed the button to activate it doesnt mean you used it correctly. Thats like saying that if I see a Survivor as Huntress they should automatically take a hit simply because I tapped M2, no aiming required.
DH only has a .5 second window, thats not a lot to work with making you have to read when the killer is going to swing.
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Halving it does nothing for you in this situation. You most likely got hooked shortly after, in which case you lost your exhaustion from being hooked. Maybe once, since you went down 4 times, you were slugged. But you recover from exhaustion while slugged. I just don't see how this mitigates your issue.
Just use a different exhaustion perk. There's a few others if dead hard gives you so much trouble.
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This is the sort of unhelpful remark which you should avoid making. This is an actual problem with the game working as intended. The developers have been unable to fix it for three years. No one is asking to change the game and make it so you can kill killers.
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I got the points for a dh block and the screen also stated I successfully avoided the hit up in the right corner. So it isn't like I mistimed it, I did it correctly.
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The problem is ping. If the killer has a better ping than you, they will down you even though on your end it said they shoudn't. On the other hand, it goes both ways. If you have a better ping than the killer, you get extra time on your Dead Hard window. This really isn't something that can be fixed even with server side validation because the person with the better ping will always get the win all other factors equal. That's just how the internet works.
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Why should we buff the strongest exhaustion perk in the game especially in a time where the community is very divided about nerfing it or not? "I successfully deadharded 4 times and each time I went down" Yeah that's not successfully deadharding then. If the perk is not working why can the popular streamers pull it off consistently then? Sounds more like a you problem tbh.
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You are correct. Shortening the exhaustion would do nothing in preventing me going down, but it is supposed to. Since the perk cannot do what it is designed to do it needs some other incentive for players to use it. I'm also juking and spinning so sometimes the killer misses when he swings, but he is still chasing me so a faster recovery would be useful in those situations, but you are correct it would not prevent a down.
I look for fair solutions for both sides, killer and survivor. My suggestion would not impede a good killer but it would probably frustrate the weak killers who erroneously think they have skill but are simply getting downs because they are relying on poor game mechanincs to assist them.
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Hmmm...maybe you do not watch the popular streamers? Every one of them who streams constantly successfully dh and go down. Maybe you have selective hearing? Listen to their comments and watch their streams. Probably the easiest one to observe this on is the JRM. I want the game fair for both sides. If a killer could not hook because of a broken game function I would not try to dissuade them from asking for a solution. Why do you want the game to remain broken? Are you a killer main and don't care about fairness?
You do raise a good point, though. The game perk is even more broken because sometimes it does not even activate, I was not talking about the times you hit dh and nothing happens at all and you go down without getting the points for a successful block. That needs addressed as well. I would remove the prerequisite that the survivor needs to be running to dh. The game also has trouble discerning if a survivor is continuously running, for instance if you change direction while running the game does not count that as still running and does a new "run check" to see if the survivor is running, even though they never stopped. This run check is quite susceptible to returning a false negative and will not allow you to activate dh. Thank you for pointing out the perk is more broken than I originally described.
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he is basically complaining about lag hits (aka pokos). This is general problem with DBD that is for unknown reason much worse in this game then in any other online game (FPS games included - which makes it a little weird as those are more sensitive for this thing). It's not exclusive on DH. It includes M1 hits (especially next to windows), dropping pallet stunning killer but getting hit regardless, killers like huntress being able to hit you with hatched from behind the corner and so on.
That's not how DBD works. In dbd the worse ping killer has, the better for him. When killer sees on his screen that the survivor is just in front of him, then he can push M1 and make the hit. It does not mean anything that the survivor is possibly 4m away behind some obstacle. The hit registers regardless, because killer's client sends information "I hit this survivor" instead of sending to server "I am here and hitting my M1 in this direction - server please tell me if that's a hit". This works also in the other direction - survivor when seeing killer somewhere where the killer is no longer can still stun him with that pallet. But the problem is, that most of the really important interactions are done on killer's side. This can be seen the best in chase - killer will get double benefit from this. When killer has ping and changes direction, then survivor will have that much less time to react to that change. It's only natural that survivors will complain about it.
That being said. I don't think DH should get any buff
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I am a killer main indeed but that doesn't weaken my point just in the slightest. I almost never have a problem getting the endurance hit when I'm actually successfully pulling it off. Also keep in mind that DH is dependent on your ping. With a bad commection you are not able to time it well anyways. But you know that is the issue with timing based mechanics in an online game. SO the solution should maybe be to rework DH to make it not timing based anymore? You never can make such a perk not being dependant to your or the opponents ping. And your proposed solution has nothing to do with fixing your problem and only sounds as a band aid fix to cover up the actual problem with the perk.
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Server validation actually punishes the killer for having good ping, because if the killer and survivor both have good ping, then the survivor has a more accurate view of where the killer is and what they are doing, which makes it easier to dead hard on reaction, or to predict when they should dead hard.
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You understand. Imagine if DBD worked like it is supposed to in all the instances you mention. It would be a funner game on both sides. I've worked in design on video games in the past and the problems with this game are bizarre, most game programmers I know are also perplexed at its poor performance in hit validation; they all can be mitigated with better code.
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As a fellow programmer all I can say is, that I agree. But as a fellow programmer you should probably understand how problematic it is to rewrite things. If you didn't know, then I would suggest you look at netscape case: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/
That being said - it might still make sense try to rewrite networking, because those lag hits are just awful in DBD
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But... they fixed it like 1 year ago. Dead Hard is now a dedicated action. If a killer downs you if you "succesfully" used Dead Hard, then you didnt use it succesfully. Back in the day, killer ping was the main deciding factor for your Dead Hard to actually work. But now, if the killer's hit arrives at the server before your dead hard arrives at the server, then they simply hit you. If they arrive in the same order, Dead Hard even has priority.
So really, this is either a ping issue or a skill issue on your side.
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Basically, what you say is that a survivor shouldnt have accurate view of where the killer is? Thats not a punishment, thats intended gameplay.
The same thing goes the other way around. Killers have a more accurate view of where the survivor is and where they are going. Bad ping would mean that a survivor goes one direction at one moment, and then is completely the opposite direction later on. If the killer has bad ping, and the survivor has good ping, then you have a similar situation of the killer having good ping and the survivor having bad ping.
Server validation doesnt punish anyone in particular, it just removed the exploit that bad ping killers and survivors had.
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another way to not go down is to play the game better and not rely on the busted third health state on command perk
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Yeah let’s just halve the cooldown on already the best perk in the game lol
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I think there are some folks who live close to servers and other players so they have a totally different playing experience. Behaviour must only play test in house on a land network. There is no way if you experienced what real players do in the real world that deadhard would not be overhauled to work with actual gamer experiences. First game today against a doctor, I successfully dh three times one of them was dh and pallet drop. I stunned him with the pallet and blocked all three hits with dh; I went down and was hooked all three times. That is unacceptable for a game. Seriously something is really messed up with the game. I know how the perk is supposed to work, once in a blue moon all the variable are in alignment and I have a good game, but on the usual it is ridiculous how unreliable the perk is. Killers who complain are clueless, they either are poor killers and need the poor mechanics to assist them or they are not savvy enough to realize how many cheap downs they are getting. Any talk of nerfing DH is laughable, it gives killers so many unearned downs that a buff is unquestionably in order. Because of lag and latency 0.5 seconds is a high skillmark to try to reach; you aren't just timing it correctly, you are trying to read the computer's mind to figure out timing, latency, hitbox lag, and individual killer's swing times. Remember survivor's perks are almost all active skill based. Killer's rely on passive perks; that is they are not hitting a button or relying on timing, their perks are passive and change the game environment and parameters without timing or button hitting.
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No they did not fix it. I can run around a corner and hit dh before the killer even knows I am coming, I dart out in front of him, dh, turn white when he swings and hits (he is reacting, so he is hitting his button after me) and I will go down. I get the points, screen upper right says I successfully performed dh, I hit my key first, I turn white showing the hit was dh blocked, and I will go down. When you say I am not successfully using it, you mean I am not being successful at using it in a way which works in the current game environment. In other words, I did not use the perk in a way other than the perk's description describes.
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The old "Get Gud" insult. Real classy. There is no way you can get good enough to compensate for a different unpredictable gaming environment every match. I guess you could say get wimpy, quit playing aggressively, avoid chases, hide in a locker, duckwalk the whole game, leave your teammates to die on hook. That is not my playing style.
I have all the characters, I have all the perks, I have 50+ of every item (common items I have over 300 of each.) I don't need bloodpoints, I don't need to level characters up. I play for the chases and interactions with the killers, that is what is fun for me. This means I am constantly in chase, constantly getting saves and taking protection hits. I play aggressively and want perks which perform at the same level I do-CONSISTANTLY. If a race car driver's car only performed well on certain days in certain races he would complain to his pit crew to fix it so it worked correctly everytime. Saying, "well in that race last week your brakes worked okay, why complain that in this race you had no brakes?" is silly. There should be consistency in the game, it is what I experience in Fortnite and COD (okay, relatively consistent.)
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i mean i play without dh 90% of the time and i still play fairly well as survivor. im not the best sure, but since i have 2 healthstates and not 3, i have to play more cautiously when injured, i have to think, because i dont have a crutch if i make a mistake. like it or not but dh is a handicap
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So because you haven't learned how to use the most overpowered skill in the game yet, it should be made noob proof? Come on now...
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At the moment, DH is almost a weak dead perk and I would be happy if it and other attrition perks could be improved.
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Yes, I'm sure that's why it's the single most-used perk in the entire game, because it's a weak dead perk and everyone is just looking for the extra challenge :)
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Yes, and the points you got would also have been reverted. And besides, you would be an exception here, as every single other instance I have seen of DH works exactly like its supposed to.
This is a scenario of where video footage would be needed on both ends. Because these are things that could have happened:
- you were going around the corner with DH, but DH input didnt reach the server untill the killer already swung(this is possible, the game predicts where you are going to run, so if you arent properly connected, the killer will be able to hit you)
- you did use it too early, and the game desynced(which requires you to verify gamefiles to get it fixed)
Thats pretty much the only realistic reasons I can conclude without any video evidence
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It is impossible to tell when DH does not work from anyone's vantage point but the user. When it does not work you see nothing happen. How do you know when you are seeing nothing happen? Remember your experience with DH is all based off of how close you are to a server and how few exchanges your signal travels through. If you consistently see DH work you probably live close to a server, it is a whole different experience if you live in the boondocks. If you live in BFE you will always see poor DH performance; plus every single precision time based skill will be terrible. That is how DBD is made; you either have a great game or a horrible lag game. Those with a good experience are blessed and lucky, but they should not look down on those of us who have a poor experience. Be thankful.
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I made a huge mistake. I thought in a game you could figure out when to hit dh based off of the lag from previous hits. YOU CANNOT, the lag is ever changing. This makes the current DH state so much worse. You really have no idea when to hit it, early, late, on time? No idea because timing changes constantly within a match.
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In the case of dead hard, server validation punishes killers, because lunges and many killer powers have way more startup frames than dead hard. Server validation is only fair when both sides have a similar startup time for their abilities.
In the case of dead hard, the validation should capture when a killer taps M1, starts to hold M1, or immediately after a killer does their M2 power….. or dead hard needs to have a lot more startup frames so it’s comparable to killer startup frames.
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good idea since the perk is dead at the moment.
They need to improve the "overcoming" perk as well.
There is also a new perk coming out that will probably be the worst perk of attrition.
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I had a situation.
While playing wraith i have unclocked and lunged for a survivor. David used dh the moment he saw i was about to swing, but before i landed my weapon, dh run off and i downed David.
One may call it nad timing, David should know that i'm about to lunge from that distance and should press the button a moment later. I call it infair even tho i was rewarded because of that.
For me, dh should not exist in the form it exists, there should be no perk that destroys all killer effort by just pressing a button.
But if we leave dh, it should be active for 0.75s instead of 0.5s
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Yeah.... No. Not gonna happen. Not a good idea.
Besides, why would you even suggest such a thing? So you can DH more often and still have it not work? DH is a problem. Possible solutions are to either completely reimagine that perk or to nerf it to the point where nobody uses it anymore.
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Again, you can't see when dh does not work correctly. Because when it does not work it shows nothing. It is impossible to see nothing.
To be honest lately I have not been getting as many successful dh's where it shows I blocked the hit, got the points , turned white and went down. The last week it has been mostly dh does nothing at all. It just never activates. In one game I tried three different timings. First one I timed correctly but it did not activate for a second. Next one I timed it one second early and it took 1.5 seconds to activate. So the next one I hit it 1.5 seconds early and it activated immediately. Three different timings, three different results, none of them consistent to the previous one. Half a second of dh on a game with incredibly flaky timing issues is ridiculous it is like trying to hit a moving target blindfolded. Since timing is a problem because of servers DH should be buffed so that it works correctly in most instances. I would be cool with the duration of dh not being set but like a golf handicap it changes for every game based off of ping.
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Along with other points mentioned, let me also note that all Exhaustion perks work of the same Exhaustion timer. Dead Hard's cooldown isn't unique in any way, and there's nothing so special about it that it warrants having a special rule like Adrenaline, which only triggers once and in very specific circumstances.
It's like how many of the suggestions to nerf Boon: Circle of Healing fail to consider those ideas conflicting with and/or affecting the other Boon perks or general Boon perk rules.
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Better Idea, rework the entire perk.
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