This is how tunnelling should be nerfed
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Honestly why not just make it actually a team-game when it comes to rewards to make tunneling sting less
Right now if you loop a bubba for 5 gens and then get facecamped to death you're considered a terrible player by the game. You lose MMR cause you didn't escape, and you get terrible points too.
Duplicate points being earned by other players onto the one who's engaged in chase with the killer as an extra reward for occupying a bunch of the killer's time, make the MMR adjustment based on how many survivors escape, and have survive points work on a similar basis.
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I think so as well that gens should not be the only objective for survivors. And just like was mentioned elsewhere missing parts for specific gens would be great as well. There is a lot of things what should be done, but BHVR instead of this are giving survivors another and another infos. What will be next? Alert and Kindred basekit, because thats what SWF has as well?
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"You want SWF bully squads addressed yes'?"
not really, no i don't care.
"Not ruin the fun for 1 person"
Not my concern if you are having fun or not, i want to win and, that's the best tactic so far
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Everyone can agree that tunneling sucks to go against, and some could even argue it makes them feel guilty to use against the opposing team, but this is not the way to go about it.
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The whole point of the game is to have fun, t he same way that you're getting mad that survivors are teabagging.
"You don't need any nerfs, you need to give the killers something that has a higher value than tunneling."
And then the killer will just tunnel AND do whatever has a higher value. Regardless tunnelling does need to be addressed. There's no doubt about that. It's easy mode killer season right now and the game in its current state is a joke.
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"the same way that you're getting mad that survivors are teabagging."
Could you please stop assuming things about me since we don't know each other? Because, i know that's shocking, i don't care if they teabag me or call me names in end game chat or write -rep on my steam page, really i couldn't care less
"And then the killer will just tunnel AND do whatever has a higher value."
And nope, the bonus persist as long you don't hook twice the same survivor, if you decide to hook twice then you loose the value, your choice
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I was merely doing a joke. You literally said as a solution that you can't hit a survivor twice meaning that you can down NOBODY so you can't do your objective. And yes you do the gens by holding m1 obviously but you know there is that thing called loadout. And there are those perks that are being called gen progression perks. And those are fairly common nowadays, might I say way too common. What I'm trying to say is that survivors are focusing more and more on gen efficiency. BNPs are not a rarity anymore and quite few survivors run almost 4 gen perks. And that is obviously okay. It's their objective thus it's in their interest to get it done quickly. Instead of being altruisic and more focused on chases survivors are leaning more and more to sticking to gens just like killers are tunneling more commonly. Both sides want to be efficient doing their objective and that is fine.
But hey if you are really against tunneling I have an amazing idea that couldn't be abused by survivors: BP incentives for fair play. Why shoud we always punish for being a naughty player when we can reward the good ones instead? Maybe make the now patched out BBQ stacks basekit? And to incentivize survivors to be more altruistic we can make the former WGLF BP stacks basekit as well. That sounds like the way to go for me.
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My mistake the second part of that sentence was for brown, no idea why it was mixed up in your reply. Easy to do with me replying to multiple convo's in here.
What bonus are you talking about exactly? I for one would care less if it was just a flat XP or Bloodpoint bonus.
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A bonsu like a semi Dying light effect
Let's say i hook player A, as long i do not hook player A again before i have hooked player B, survivors receive a 5% gen speed penality. If i then hoob B the penality increae to 8% ( rough numbers, don't nitpink on those are just for example ). Then i stumbole on A, i hook him again but i do not lose any bonuses since both hooks were not directly one after the other. And so on.
This is, by far, the best way to prevent tunneling
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I'm honestly just going to stop replying to you. OF COURSE I know what perks are when I have over 1,000 Hours in the game. If I wanted jokes or sarcasm I would join a circus. I'm here for DISCUSSIONS. Either keep to the topic or don't comment at all. THANKS.
Post edited by MoNosEmpire on0 -
No, this is a very bad idea. Sometimes you have to tunnel. Give survivors anti tunnel tools instead.
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I can get behind something like that, I think 4% is still too little though, I can also see the killer hooking A, then B, then slugging the rest. That would most likely be the new tactic with that. Could work though. But most killers would just ignore it I still think.
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How about instead of adding your idea, the perks that encourage going for diferent survivors get a buff, Forced penance, Pop goes the weasel, BBQ bloodpoints. BHVR said another perk update is coming in the roadmap
But let's imagine your idea get's added, what if the killer is against all the same survivor swf, same outfit, hidden name, and he tunnels one by accident because they all look the same, so now what he get's punished for that
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I see another perk update coming, and SBMM would also circumvent that from happening.
I've had the same killer like 4x in a row too so it would be nice.
I'm more than happy for everyone to throw their two cents into this discussion about how we could change tunnelling as a whole but I do see limiting it to still specific perks forces killers to use select ones, which would be unhealthy for the game in the longrun, Unless it's base-kit in in some way.
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BHVR have been trying that and failing lol
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Oh they have some pretty good tools, but if you want to never have the Killer be a threat then they are bad tools indeed-
However bHVR isnt working to eliminate the threat level of the Killer.
So the question is, what would you consider a tool to work against tunneling?
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Survivors tunnel Generators so killers respond by tunneling survivors. If we are going to address tunneling we need to address how it can be prevented for both sides or not at all.
There needs to be a base mechanic where hooking three different people gives you more than just hooking one person three times.
Deadlock needs to be base kit and have rollback protection so that even if computer bots finished 2 gens at the same time then one would get rolled back to 99% completion.
Change Deadlock to just extend the timer by 30 seconds.
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Try playing both sides of this game, you'll get a better perspective on that issue.
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You say good tools yet their last change to reduce tunnelling has done nothing except make the killer count a rough timer and still continue you tunnel anyway. Touché.
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1K hours ofc I've played both sides.
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I've already addressed half of this, read previous comments.
And FYI there is no such thing as "gen tunnelling" and there never will be so please stop referring to it as that. Now if you mentioned Gen Rushing, that would make sense.
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use off the record then
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I used to, I don't use it no more. It's good up until an extent.
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On the contrary, tunneling is a guaranteed way to lose "against survivors who have any skill". If you run into a killer who tunnels, not because they are just repaying toxicity with toxicity, but as an actual strategy, then they are usually low skill killers... which means that you get your best runner and loop him and distract him the whole match while everyone else pops gens. It's even EASIER now to do this with the HUD.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
I think it would be really cool if they had "cutthroat" objectives other than opening the hatch with the key. Like objectives where a survivor not just passively plays for their own wellbeing, but actively, in a way where they can actually win by screwing over their teammates. That would make it really interesting. But make it to where the objective has multiple steps that can only be completed once, so in the end only one survivor can utilize it.
Or have other cool objectives besides just cutthroat ones, just thinking of "new threat" dynamics brought on by survivors themselves.
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i think if killer camps or tunnels he should be teleported to edge of map
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Not really, you can keep the killer busy all game and still not get +2 because you didn't get a chance to get on the gen or escape.
You're saying its a low skill issue when it's abundance in all ranks is there. The higher you go up the more you see it.
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I literally told you in this comment why I disagree with your "solution" to tunneling and explained my solution to this problem. Rewarding instead of punishing. Your idea wouldn't work at all. Yes I was being sarcastic at parts but you know what? I also told you my point seriously. Isn't that part of a discussion? Telling you exactly why I disagree with you and proposing an actual solution?
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this would be abusable asf, punish new players, and lead to even more 4 regression nurses
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Ok so what causes Tunneling? And why can one side get away with doing it but not the other???
Gens being done- that's a given... but it isn't the end of the world (is it worth more to lose a Gen or 2 at the start of the match or the last 2 Gens and the gates being at 99%)
Bodyblocking- that's a choice made by the Survivor (whom just got unhooked)
Quick Saves- that's a choice made by the Survivor (whom just got the save)
MMR screw job- it could happen...
SWF's- not so much... but the Killer can't see if it's true or not
Map- sure why not... Maps are either Killer sided or Survivor sided not many that are truly balanced
Now on the Survivors side... cause they do it as well... but it isn't brought up as much
Early hooks- fair enough... A way to gain pressure
Gen perks- ok... might as well finish a Gen before the Killer can get any regression on it
Maps- same as I said before
MMR screw job- it happens
Killer camping- yes might as well get all of the Gens done that you can
3 Genning- mostly Survivors fault... but a Killer can force it
Start of the match- yes cause the Killer doesn't have any pressure... but chose wisely (see point above as to why)
Gens being harder to do- that's a bit shaky but whatever
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-"And FYI there is no such thing as "gen tunnelling" and there never will be"
Then I refuse to acknowledge there is any tunneling in DBD. Survivors play efficient and do their objective as quickly as possible and so does the killer.
-"Ok so what causes Tunneling? And why can one side get away with doing it but not the other???"
Survivors don't get to interact with the killer if the killer tunnels. Killers don't get to have meaningful chases if the survivors tunnel generators.
We need Basekit Deadlock with rollback protection. If two gens get finished at exactly the same time just roll one back to 99%. Make the perk of the same name extend the blockage for +30 seconds.
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Regardless I'm not here for jokes.
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New players don't even know how to loop let alone tunnel.
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Killers are already tunnelling regardless it makes no difference at this point. God forbid you're a TTV streamer you're always being selectively targeted instead of everyone else. And then BHVR added a function to hide your name, but oh yeah if you're on console and you activate it, on PC they still see your name as clear as day. Pointless.
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The reason they do it is simple as explained by others above, at the start of the game they focus 1 person to force a 3v1, and because it's so easy to do and you don't get punished for it at all. All anti-tunnel perks got a heavy nerf so it's even easier now than it was pre-patch.
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It's called gen rushing not gen tunnelling.
Here's an entire reddit post dedicated to it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ttyqn8/what_is_gen_tunneling/
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I agree to make it so that the killer cannot hit/see/or track the survivor who has just been taken down.
The hooked survivor should get the same one-hit resistance as Ash's Gauntlet which will work for a guaranteed 1 minute and not inflict a deep wound, thus making him unattractive to the killer.
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yes they do, lmao. they dont see the issue in it, or camping. dbd is the only game where people complain about dying first
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Exactly. Desperation to succeed within the time frame for completion is what causes camping, tunneling and hard slugging. Over time, killers are conditioned to play as cut-throat and efficient as possible or end the match with 0 - 2 hooks (especially M1 killers). How can one really expect people to act when they play killer and see that 3/5 (sometimes 4/5) of the entire survivor objective was completed while they have 0% of their own? Obviously the mind is going to go into overdrive thinking "oh crap I better do something quick or I won't get anybody." You get more unfavorable behavior from killers when the potential top speed of completion is so high
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-"make it so that the killer cannot hit/see/or track the survivor who has just been taken down."
And to make that fair : block all generators over 33% progress while that survivor is on the hook ( if it is their second hook then block all gens with 66% progress or more).
You need to realize survivors have a gens before friends policy and that is why a soft camp goes to a hard camp. Go ahead and finish your gen while Dwight is on the hook. He's going to pay for what you did with a second hook state loss. I will likely lose a second generator for it but then I will just chase him down on the unhook and he's removed from the game.
At that point I can slug one player chase another and the game slows down to a crawl.
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game is too easy for survivors. survivors can dictate flow of the game by bringing toolboxes, gen rushing perks, and map offerings. additionally survivors can play SWF and if they are all high skill then they realistically should only be facing nurse and blights because there's not much other killers can do regardless.
further many maps have are too large or make it too easy to waste a lot of the killers time. good killers recognize this thus their best option is to camp and tunnel, then have a manageable game when only 3 survivors are left.
realistically, the game should be made much harder for survivors and disconnects should be met with fierce penalties. then you can add in things that basically eliminate camping and tunneling altogether. it's not being used as a strategy because killers are lazy, but because it's often the only strategy that actually works.
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Make tunneling reduce emblems and thus reduce BPs
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i had no idea how to loop when i first started and neither did my friends, i got battered the first month lol
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Sorry friend but you don't get to call this "the most logical" anything. To impose some kind of multi game condition on one side based on a playstyle, that may have been necessary or even unintended at the time, and then have that condition completely hog tie the player for any amount of unrelated games is... Not logical. It is however a sure fire way to kill this game as killers would rather play *insert other game title here* guaranteed.
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Another thread about tunneling where it should be punished. Solution made by original poster is silly. Make people to have 10 000 (if I overexeggarate it) bloodpoints for hook and only 100 bloodpoints for kill. And if hook him twice. Same person, than no points. If he hook another person than it reset. Reward them for not playing like that. But same for survivors. Give them less and less points for being on one gen. 50% blood points penalization for two people on gen and 75% for 3 people on gen. And ofc... 4 people 0 bloodpoints to any category. If they do gens in lesss than 60 seconds for example, then gens in radius of 64 meters would be blocked and more. But. If they do them for example simultanously with short delay between finishing gens, then they would be rewarded by a lot of bloodpoints for it. REWARD PEOPLE for playing differently. DON´T PUNISH THEM.
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What? No. I'm not even going to elaborate on this one, just no.
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Well I have better idea how we should nerf tunneling.
Why don't we just remove the ability to hit survivors so killers would be standing there watching survivors doing gens? Gen rushing with proves and toolboxes is so balanced and fun to watch and killers aren't already forced to tunnel if they want to win. Also remove perks and addons for killers. Or just remove killers completely. Too unfun to play against killers nowadays because all I can see is killer killing survivors. Thats mean and it should not be a mechanic in this type of game. Or at least there should be mechanic that if killer is trying to kill, then their computer explodes and they get a ban for their account.
I think my suggestion would make the game balanced again. Also fun for both sides.
EDIT: Even better idea.
Remove gens from the game, so survivors only have to open gates and escape. This way there would be no time for tunneling.
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Look at this video and tell me one reason why I should not be able to tunnel you? :D This is average high MMR match I´ve experienced in game most of the time. Fast and pretty clear matches. I tried to get that with another account and man it was such a disaster for killers. Climbing as a survivor was never easier. After week I´m from ASH IV in GOLD 1 and I´m still climbing with 80% escape rate. 5 gens at 4 minutes? Yes. Definitely killer is the one who has to be punished, right? :D :D :D
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Make Grim Embrace basekit
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Ah yes, the "I refuse to learn any other playstyle so nerf it and I'm going to quit" counterargument. It's pretty logical to me to put some sort of cap on it. The point of this post isn't to recommend that my suggestion is the right one, it's that tunnelling is an issue and my post was to create an opening discussion point so as a player base we can come together and figure out the best solution for it.
Tunelling is a stain and needs to be removed some way or another. My first game on and the killer threw the game because he targetted no one but me. It's shockingly boring. We need new playstyles in general.
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