Knight buffs helped him well
It's kinda fun to summon guards from distance since they don't know it's coming usualy and just drop it next to them and just hear in distance "AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" and let the chase beggin haha. Now you can use your power in distance and have it some effect at least :3
Comments
-
Yeah, I love the Knight buffs too. It made him feel a lot better to play without buffing the "instant guard" playstyle. You can really catch survivors off guard now (plus watching the Jailer zoom towards a survivor at mach speed always makes me laugh).
One extra thing I wish they would do though is make the Map of the Realm addon part of the basekit (and changing the effect because 8 extra meters of range would be insane). It still feels like an absolute must-have addon, which isn't something you really want to have as it reduces the variety of addons you can take.
5 -
He definitely does feel better to play just still lacking a lot. Map of the realm and the pathing extension addon are essentially mandatory and should be basekit. As long as they’re addons there’s no flexibility to use any other addons for variety. On that note, most of his addons are really, really bad. Survivors still shouldn’t see the green circle around the guards and guards in generally should be faster in chase (make it even just based on distance placed again so you can’t just insta drop them). Using a guard to kick a gen even when it’s the jailer is 99% of the time a bad play. Wasting time to summon it, putting your power on cooldown and not getting perk effects on it make that kick a complete waste of time. Needs improvements here.
1 -
I find a lot of success using guards to kick gens you won't make it to before they pop, if it's the carnifex the kick is so fast they might still finish it before you get there, but jailer or assasin take a bit longer to kick then the 5% regression can be the difference between stopping s gen or not. Especially love it when I get there in time after sending in a slow kick to insta drop a carnifex on the gen and chase the survivor.
However I do 100% agree map of the realm feels like a requirement to play him if you want consistent hunts.
0 -
The Jailer's voicelines give me such joy when I'm playing Knight
1 -
Well for reference that kick is taking 4.5 seconds off the gen. When you account for time spent using your power to send the guard over and kick it you just saved what? Like 1.5 seconds off the gen? Quite bad.
However it actually gets worse than that because those roughly 3 seconds you spent kick also gave those 3 seconds to other survivors x3 (assuming one at the gen you’re kicking so we’re not counting that one). So you lost 9 seconds to survivors in order to save 4.5.
Not to mention you put your power on cool down for all this and aren’t pressuring anyone.
I think this really shows how bad kicking the gen with a guard is. I know people seem to be against it because of the whole 3 gen thing going on right now but I don’t think it would be overpowered at all if the guards kicks applied perks. Besides the kick perks are getting nerfed this next patch anyway.
0 -
personally for me, guards still feel ineffective at getting hits. The survivor I play against do not get hit by his guards and shift-w very easily. for me, I noticed very little impact from the changes. 9/10 times, rather 99% of the time, I almost always get the hit with main killer over the guards. I wish they made his guards 5% faster when drawing 10 meter paths so that I get more chances for injuries with the guards. Map of the realm being mandatory since his ptb is not ideal either but its grey add-on. I can live with equipping an add-on to play the killer.
0 -
Yeah I’d like if they did his guards speed similar to what they did with the orb disappearing and haste effect. So the further away you path the faster of a chase speed bonus the guards get. Encourages the long distance pressure without buffing the insta drop game play most people are still doing.
0 -
Yes I agree. Kinda how they made it so that guard start chases 0-25% faster based off how long path is drawn. I think it would be interesting if guard were 1-5% faster based off how long the path has been drawn. encourages knight to use long distance patrols and encourages knight track survivors at distance. Survivor become more incline predict his guard location spawn to avoid chase. if its knight uses guards for gen-patrol, then it encourages survivor to use banner mechanic or risk getting hit by the guard.
survivor dev are so weird. they design a killer and then they focus on this one thing that knight can do as if it is only relevant aspect to knight and then disregard any other element to the killer's gameplay. yes instant drop guard is effective and is sometime correct play but focusing on this single element and nothing else is bizarre. Its like they wanted to nerf element by making him really weak on release but could not figure how to do that. Technically if they wanted weaken this 2vs1 gameplay, they could do this by making the killer suffer a 5%-10% hindered penalty when the guard is actively chasing the survivor. This would make a lot more challenging for the knight to sandwich the survivor in 2vs1. I am sure it would still be advantageous for the killer to 2vs1 survivor but getting hits would be a lot harder. I know some people were asking for instant-drop knight to be worse. I am not saying the knight needs this change but that is the approach I would take if I was "weakening" knight. You still get 2vs1 but 2 killers are "weaker". Guard are too weak right now anyway so I do not recommend negatives changes but yeah.
1 -
Yeah I agree, some missed potential for growth here.
Even though he’s pretty unanimously agreed on by the community to be very weak and I agree I’ve actually been enjoying him a lot lately. I’ve been playing him quite differently than most people and doing pretty well. I’m at a 35 win streak currently and still going with the average player in my matches being around 2k hours so I’d say they’re pretty decent. Most people just play him with insta dropping the guards that I just don’t think they know what what to do against his other play style yet. I was pretty surprised by the results I’ve been getting against teams I would say are actually pretty good.
0 -
We still hate him, and no it didn't.
1 -
guards should never be able to get a free hit by themselves unless the survivor messes up, that's not the point, they're meant to tie up the survivor. If guards could get consistent hits on their own the knight would actually be the worse designed killer in the games history instead of being the second worse designed killer.
1 -
oh yes... only when survivor messes up. Only when the survivor messes up. What if survivor never messes up? indirectly, that means that killer can never play well because its entirely on survivor to play well. I do not agree. The killer play should matter to some degree. I am not saying that every power should be 100% killer sided but both gameplay should matter to some degree.
4 -
The knights fundamental design doesn't care about the survivors side, that's why he's such a badly designed killer. He needs to be more interactive not less.
0 -
right... I am not entirely sure what makes him badly designed or not interactive in your post but i take it that you do not like playing against the knight.
0 -
If you honestly can't tell why the knight is an abomination of design in dbd, i just really don't know what to say. The main counterplay to knight in chase is to do everything you can to not interact with his power in anyway, this is in fact not fun for ether side.
0 -
running away from his guards is not interacting with his power? there is skill in hold-w. its up to dev to make interaction take skill on both sides. Currently I would say playing vs knight is easy for me and the knight has little options to shorten the chase with his ability. At the same time, he can force hits easily in corners of the map if he properly sandwiches the survivor using the guard and himself. most of time, you let knight hit you and never let unit hit you because letting unit hit you will result an instant down if both unit and knight are near each other. I am suggesting to make survivor interaction and killer sided interaction more even instead of overly skewed for other side. drawing long paths is still unrewarding because as you said, survivor has to mess up. instant dropping guards and sandwiching is killer sided.
it is not badly designed. its badly balanced in my opinion.
0 -
It can be the difference between a gen popping or not if you know survivors have been pressuring a gen, that's what I'm talking about. Can also be very helpful for a corner gen to just send a guard over to see if anyone is on it, if not you know you don't have to go over there thus saving timing. And if someone is you can drop the guard or kick the gen depending on its progress and cut off any survivor trying to leave the tile. It's not so black and white a situation where math can determine if it's good or bad.
0 -
I agree with your point, there is some grey area and some times it could be useful. Just 90% of the time it's the wrong move. I don't think using a killers power should be the wrong move anywhere near 90% of the time. That sounds like bad design.
1 -
The reason why i never gen kick is because i think the way they structured order action is least convenient way possible for killer. it is not very time efficient and chase pressure is always better then over-time regression. over-time regression if you do not 3 gen is win-more mechanic. you need already be winning super hard and pressuring team super hard for over-time regression to be doing anything that by the time over-time regression does anything, you are already winning/in a winning position. survivor need to have zero output in gen efficiency(0 people on generator) for over-time regression to be relevant for killer, otherwise your just trading generator progression in 1 gen for another gen and survivor progress gens way faster then you regress them, so trading progression with regression is not effective strategy for killer.
this is why over-time regression works in 3 gens because the strength in 3 gens is ability to pressure all survivors into 0% efficiency where killer regression can be faster then the survivor up time on objective. In every other case, the killer just wastes time kicking gens and accomplish nothing.
1 -
For all who are interested, if you want a Perk Suggestion for the Knight, one that is slept on I think, that not many killers really get a ton of value from, FEARMONGER. Since your path for Guards can be longer, it is pretty common to surprise people on gens, and this counters sprint burst etc allowing your guards to catch up to them a little quicker. I find that my guard hits are very consistent, with all 3 of them.
0 -
1, it's not useless. Killer slows survivor this way. Once killer is able to actually revert the progression, the game is in problem - survivors can't win that game no matter how long it will take, how good they loop or anything else (because killer can always reset all survivor's effort). This would be the same as survivors being able to "heal" hook states quicker then killer is able to hook survivors (in such a case killer would be just unable to win no matter what he would do, but using alternative ways to win = bleeding out survivors. But survivors don't have full-team alternative - hatch works only for last survivor).
2, but I like your suggestion about buffing long distance guards. I would probably make them even 10% quicker, but drawing makes sound and survivors need to run away in time. If killer wins the mindgame (guesses correctly the survivor position - killer should have tangible chance to get it right, but survs should be able to also dodge it if they read the killer's intention correctly), guards should catch them on their own (or have high chance of doing so). On the other hand, make instadrop guard tactics harder by making killer slower. I think this would create much more interesting killer. Something like "long-range-only" huntress that can "shoot" behind obstacles.
0 -
I think this would create much more interesting killer. Something like "long-range-only" huntress that can "shoot" behind obstacles.
Long range spirit. not long range huntress. Long range spirit with guard chases.
drawing makes sound and survivors need to run away in time
There was no sound, but they used to show you green orb precise location because survivor complained that spirit is invisible so she has no CoUNTer PlAY. Untrue in my opinion but whatever I guess. The orb is invisible past 10 meters following 6.5.0 changes.
I would probably make them even 10% quicker
Sure that is just numbers. i gave 1-5% as example. perhaps 1-10% is better.
On the other hand, make instadrop guard tactics harder by making killer slower. I think this would create much more interesting killer.
I tend to see max potencial in a killer regardless of what version of killer you present. he could be an interesting killer to escape from. Looping a 2vs1 killer could be very interesting. I agree with your post. @Steakdabait disagrees and he/she thinks that knight is 2nd worst designed killer. You can't win them all I guess. there is always going be some that dislike playing vs x killer.
Once killer is able to actually revert the progression, the game is in problem
I do not agree. I think generator defence type perks balance the game out for killer. The game is balanced around them currently. I forgot who wrote the 6.1.0 post but I think in dev post, they said something along lines of generator defence perks should be optional. not complete mandatory. something like that. with how killer power-levels are, they are currently mandatory which is why everyone run them.
1
