Revert the DS stun back to 5 seconds and make the current DS basekit
Killers are not fearing DS anymore. That's because it's rare nowadays and pretty weak. You can't use it agressively anymore without having to worried to get downed 10 seconds later. It has lost it's strength. I know it was intended to be back to 3 seconds as soon as Enduring didn't affect every stun anymore (though it took them a lot of time to nerf it back to 3 seconds). But honestly it wasn't overpowered. Only the fact that it was active in endgame was problematic. But they nerfed that aspect as well. Survivors should have a way to punish a killer from reckless tunneling off the hook.
So my idea is to make the current DS basekit and buff the perks stun duration to 5 seconds. And it will still be deactivated in endgame so it won't be a free jail out perk.
Comments
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The main problem with ds (or with any stronger survivor perk for that matter) is that survivors found ways to abuse it's power and force the killer to either eat the ds and loose time or let them do stuff in the killers face. I do agree the 5 to 3 second nerf is a bit overshot but we need to be careful to not make a perk that survivors can abuse to force the killer into a loose loose situation
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No, Killers need to be able to exploit a situation of a unhooked Survivor not taking proper care.
You have DS, to change that. You need to invest a Perk slot for it. If you give base DS for free, Killers cant exploit any situation.
You talk about Killers not fearing DS, now what about Survivors not fearing the Killer? Seems like a bigger issue.
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I agree it should be buffed back to 5 seconds and I would like it base kit as well as just more difficult to tunnel in general.
My only issue with this is as @Raz_cr0w mentioned, the survivors tend to abuse it for its unintended purpose, essentially exactly what they do now with base kit BT which is abuse it to block you from going for the unhooker. We need a version of base kit anti tunnel that is not abusable, like the base kit BT being zero collision until a conspicuous action so they can’t use it for an unintended purpose. (This would obviously need some caveats for some exceptions)
Also of note, the point of the game being balanced around bad players which makes high mmr matches with good players require tunneling to win. If we improve the base kit anti tunnel as I mentioned above the game would need to be balanced better to make this not necessary. That would be the ideal scenario, sounds like a lot of work though and how/if they would even do that I don’t know. This concept is unrelatable to most the player base as this is not most games, it’s something exclusive to higher skill/mmr players.
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How about making BNP Basekit? And Unbreakable? Oh, dont forget Deadhard Basekit.
Here is someone who dont play Killer at higher level. You already struggle a lot against a decent SWF if u are not Blight or Nurse.
Im comparison Killers gets Predator Basekit. That seems balanced, RIGHT?
I play DS all the time with 3 secs and I only get outrunned by the well known Speed-Killers. Against any other killer, its perfectly fine to reach next Pallet/Window. This however is not a Perk-Issue, but a killer-issue.
Just add this: Killer can only down with the Basic-Attack 30secs after u stunned the killer. This would fix everything without making DS OP again.
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Thing about DS, though, is that the only way to use it 'offensively' at the end was to get slugged. It's not full on protection to do whatever you want, because you'll still get incapacitated until you're picked back up. DS was not worth trying to use offensively against any killer aware of its existence because it'd cost you more than you'd gain.
DS was the perfect anti-tunnel, or it would have been if it had only gotten the EGC nerf.
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It doesn't need to be basekit. Just reverted back to 5 seconds. And I'd even argue that we should buff it to work after both hook states. But no basekit.
With it disabling in endgame & going away when the survivors do anything useful, it should be a harsh punish for killers who do tunnel.
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Jesus no, enough with the basekit sh*t man. Y’all want the whole damn perk roster basekit at this rate.
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I'm fine with it being 3 seconds but why does it need a skill check? So annoying when you miss it. You don't miss it often but when you do it's painful as hell.
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It’s very unfair survivors have to use perk slots to use perks. Make all perks basekit please.
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Survivor have so much ######### base kit now. They now know exactly what everyone is doing, how much gen or healing progress.
Seriously guys. The only way to play this game is to play the best add-ons with the best killers. . . Or you get smoked and T-bagged.
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How about making a NOED basekit? Killers also need to punish survivors who repair generators.
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It was a great way to make the killer helpless with the gate open. He couldn't lift you up, and you could still crawl away. Lose-Lose situation.
5 seconds seems too long to me, as a killer. I managed to endure a mini existential crisis while recovering from the stun. However, 3 seconds is also not the right time, since the survivor does not always get a chance to start a new chase. My solution is 4 + deletion in endgame as it is right now.
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The stun should work after both unhooks AND get changed back to 5 seconds. Not sure how I feel about it being basekit.
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Why not make all survivors perks basekit ? and also you can carry three object at the same time !
Oh and also increase survivors speed to 7 m/s
Not sure if those buff are enough, maybe also a 1000% gen repair speed on all the generators on the map ?
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It was a great way to make the killer helpless with the gate open. He couldn't lift you up, and you could still crawl away. Lose-Lose situation.
Yeah, that got removed. Justifiably, but then it also got slapped with a 40% nerf despite it being the healthiest perk the game's ever had.
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I would like to get DS back to NOED levels, what I mean is during end game I have to pause before going in for a save.... does he have NOED err maybe...but if he doesnt I can save...
DS ha killers dont worry about that at all they tunnel and pick up without a moment thought.
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"Killers do not fear ds anymore" well yes if they need pressure it will be easier to go for the person on death hook than someone they haven't hooked.
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Decisive Strike is literally the last thing that needs to be basekit lol
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Reckless tunneling, yeah I love that when it was 5 sec you had recently unhooked survivors right in the killer face because if the killer doesn't go for you, your ds does nothing and you can't do anything or your ds is gone meaning you are useless for the team.
There is not such thing as agressive ds, you just played cocky and try to be annoying and force the killer to tunnel you because of a perk
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Otz talked about it today some and I agree with him. The problem with putting the stun back to 5s is that it won't really hurt the strongest killers but will be very punishing to the weaker ones. 5s stun does nothing to killers like nurse, blight or Spirit (with speed addon's) but it devastates killers like trapper, Myers, and Freddy. Now I know what you will say "well just don't tunnel and you won't get hit by DS" Well you right but survivors will use the power of DS force the killer to tunnel them by body blocking and ect. Even now they use things like OtR and the basekit BT to make the killer hit them and force them to chase them. If you add 5s DS and a basekit DS to this you just asking for survivors to use these antitunnel tools offensively. Now what you could do is make it where DS makes killers like nurse and blight lose tokens so they can't use thier power right after getting stunned.
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What if current DS gave a sprint burst, iron will, and lucky break effect for 3 seconds instead of putting it to 5?
At least you'd be able to vanish, possibly meaning you have better odds of just not instantly being downed again.
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I dunno about making it base-kit, but it should absolutely go back to 5 seconds.
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Yeah, I did say before 6.1. that BT was the wrong thing to implement basekit, and the move from DS to OTR is literally worse for both killers AND survivors.
DS needs to be basekit, OTR needs to be changed to total information black-out until conspic action after unhook.
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There needs to be a proper way of dealing with playstyles like tunneling without having the need of running a perk. That's also why I want Grim Embrace basekit. Play fair and you can stall them from genrushing you.
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hard no on basekit ds but DS should have been just made to not work in endgame and not neutered to 3 seconds
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Fine. Give killers basekit Eruption and we’ll call it an even trade
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But the problem is that it is an exploit right now. Survivors have no basekit comms, so they cant take "proper care", especially not if a killer decides to tunnel.
Personally, I am also of the opinion to have a basekit DS, but not the whole match. Just the first 2-3 gens to remove the exploitation of no comms. That way, a killer can still take advantage of situations where the unhooked survivor is not taken proper care of, but a survivor would also not be screwed over early game due to a lack of comms. The only other "fair" way is for survivors to be able to revive a tunneled teammate by sacrificing 1 hookstate each, which is busted on a whole other level.
On the other end of the stick, killers need to get a reward for hooking all 4 survivors once before they kill someone. Perhaps the addition/respawning of 1 more gen(but spawned away as far away as possible from non-finished gens to not make 3-gens easier). So that the killer has reasons to not tunnel/kill 1 survivor ASAP, but has reasons to search out other survivors.
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i dont understand how you can abuse DS now the way it is?
doesnt work in endgame, almost every action except hoping into a locker removes ds
the best DS can do is take a hit for someone put them in mending or wait out their 8sec bt before a hit and leave him slugged.
Im a believer of DS being able to be used after every hook and/or make survivor have a shared 12 hook. No other way to fix tunneling
If people still have a problem with DS its more of a you problem and try actually improving your killer skills like the way suvivors have been adapting with all the nerfs.
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Unless you’re going against Nurse or Blight, 3 seconds is more than enough.
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No lol
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If you can’t get to a tile off those 3 seconds, that’s a you issue. Perk should be about providing a 2nd chance when you need it most, not free getaway on the spot that hurts you cause you picked someone up.
Post edited by BoxGhost on4 -
The problem with the slugging thing is if a Killer downs someone who using their DS to body block and the killer slugs them, then survivors will start complaining about killers slugging even more. Also do not forget the whole unbreakable basekit they tested out with the new mori system still can be a thing they do. If that happens then you will have survivors taking hits off-hook using the base kit BT, go down to bait out a DS use, and being slugged just to be able to pick themselves up shortly after. If basekit unbreakable happen there be nothing left to punish survivors for using their anti-tunnel tools offensively
I also will add I rarely tunnel anyone right off hook. Most of the time I try to go after the unhooked but I will tunnel if the hooked survivors start getting between me and the unhooker. If you don't run away from the killer after you are unhooked and want to use the tools to keep you safe as a weapon against me then I will tunnel you no matter what. I always go out of my way to play semi-nice (alot of times it cost me kills).
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It's 2 seconds to get away since you are locked in an animation for the first second. And not every map is filled to the brim with resources
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Interesting choice of words. And by interesting I mean bad.
The stun animation takes a full second, so you really get two seconds to run which is...pretty much useless against Killers with any mobility at all and still bad against M1 Killers.
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Give killers basekit deadlock
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The Survivors making an opportunity for the Killer to Tunnel isnt an exploit, its a mistake with consequences by the Survivors.
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"cant use it aggressively anymore" guess what,, you shouldn't have been able to do so in the first place,, Survivors bodyblockin you with old ds and forcing you to either eat a ds or slug and eat an unbreakable was bullshit enough
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It should be like before, working two times but deactivated in the endgame and 5 seconds of stung, but also deactivate if you receive a protection hit, so you can't body block anymore
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Mate I was talking about pre-nerf ds not the current one
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It should be 5 secs again.
The 3 secs is really too short to get away.
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Survivors, who have no way of communicating what they want, need or expect from their teammates who unhook them or are nearby without knowing their teammate is coming. Making it an exploit.
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That's not really possible since conspicious actions disable it now
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Agree, it's actually 2 seconds counting the animation, it'll just buy u like 5 seconds before you're downed again lol, then it's gone for the rest of the match
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The other side shouldn't fear a perk being in the match, that's just a really backwards reason to want a perk stronger.
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Use Coms then, if you think its an exploit.
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i think decisive strike should be changed to a 1 time use get out of jail free card that requires you to simply press the action button. no timing needed. it stuns the killer as normal and applies exhausted to the survivor. can't be used while exhausted.
no more meter or the BS skill check or trying to get unhooked. if you have DS and the gates are open - use it.
this is coming from a killer main.
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