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Knight is still pretty bad.
The buffs have helped A TON. But, I've noticed even with them it's still hard to pull anything off when going against some of the survivor meta. I think the main issue is really the guards.
Carnifex is basically the best one since he can do just about everything. He chases the longest, meaning there's a better chance of a hit. He also breaks stuff the fastest, but sometimes you also want to use Jailer or Assassin to keep survivors off the gen for a few seconds. He's the best at pressuring survivors and really the only one capable of doing it.
Assassin is kind of a mixed bag. I don't really know how to feel about him. He's the fastest, sure, but he also doesn't chase long enough to be a big threat. I think he goes for about 10 seconds and quits out. In that way he really does embody the mind of a killer main. But I've had varying success with him. I'm not too sure how to actually utilize him yet because he seems just so average at everything. Deep wound is nice but it doesn't matter if he gets right up to their back and says "eh im done".
Jailer is cheeks. He's good as information since his patrol is the best, but that in itself is a more niche scenario. You could try to use him to scare people off of a gen while you chase another guy but he's not enough of a threat to do anything. 2 survivors can come in, 1 triggers Jailer and the other waits 5 seconds to get the banner and now they're back on it.
Aside from that he still just doesn't have any way to deal with boons or medkits. Survivors can just DH the guards and you have to awkwardly switch through said guards just in case you get that magic scenario where they would be perfect. Survivors won't even loop you even with the changes because they know you'll set down a guard. You can try to put up a path to cut them off but they're still super far away with a guy that does nothing to them. Without map of the realms or call to arms you wont make enough distance to catch people either. And even if you DO start a real chase with a survivor most maps have 17 chained tiles that make your already long chase process of setting a path and activating a guard even longer.
Knights only real strength is gen stall. But he can only stall. Nothing else really gets accomplished since, yet again, survivors will draw you away from the gens if you hit them. If you leave them they go to a boon or use their medkit. I refuse to use COB + Eruption because I'm not enough of a loser to stretch a game out to an hour just to not lose a match. But that's really the only good playstyle that isn't completely conditional.
Comments
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If you think he's weak you are nuts. He's obnoxious and oppressive.
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Yeah he still needs a lot of improvements, starting with his addons that are basically trash aside from a couple required ones.
They can literally loop around a rock to hit the flag rofl.
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Also his ai gets totally messed up on the game map. I once had a scenario where my guard was chasing a survivor on a floor that they were not on.
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Knight really needs these changes he should get buffed with his guards and abilities but nerfed in his anti loop so he’s not boring.
-first off have dried horse meat and map of realm be base kit so that way(along with buffs to guards).
Carniflex=Hunt time is 28 seconds(was 24) and patrol range is 12 meters(was 8).
Assassin=Hunt time is 16 seconds(was 12) and patrol range is 12 meters(was 8).
Jailer=Hunt time is 16 seconds(was 12), patrol range is 18 meters(was 14), chase speed is 105%(was 102.5%) if jailer hits you gain incapacitated for 15 seconds.
-Next buff I would give is make him less clunky to where when you place guards down they don’t get stuck on pallets or walls.
-nerf, when placing a guard you can’t drop them instantly you have to move at least 2 meters before you can let go of your guard(this is to stop the drop at loop playstyle). You can still order kicks at gens and pallets but you can’t just drop guards anymore.
that’s honestly what I would do with him. If it doesn’t work then he will need a rework of some kind.
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So is pig.
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I mean...
If you're going to say he specializes in 3 Gen camping, and refuse to use the perk tools that work with that tactic.
You're asking for a different killer?(I don't disagree about his strengths, btw).
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You forgot Call to Arms base kit, that addon is basically required for the long distance guard snipes which is the entire play style you're trying to get Knight to play and not the anti-loop version.
Other than that I agree. Could honestly use a small speed boost to the guards as well based on distance placed, so no close up anti-loop speed increases.
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thats what I thought the original buff was the guards get faster the longer you put your range out but it wasn’t. I wouldn’t mind if guards would get a mini bloodlust the longer they chase but not to much to where there uncounterable
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He's definitely not bad. I really want to like the Knight, but the playstyle is just so awful. He's a slow version of Hag. The game didn't need this type of killer.
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Btw what’s your thoughts on jailer giving incapacitated? It fits his character but I made it short to where it’s not annoying like eruption.
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Well I'd only want the guards to chase faster based on how far they were placed, not how long they chased, since that could be abused as anti-loop for quick drops. This rewards the long range snipes.
I personally think that short duration Incap would be fine, but knowing average players they'd probably complain.
The devs are stuck in a weird spot with Knight because if he gets reliable hits with guards people feel it's oppressive getting downed by an AI but at the same time if the guards don't get reliable hits they are on the edge of completely worthless. While I wish their design went a different direction if we're trying to salvage what we have I think the best route is as we've been going which is reliable hits, but those reliable hits are only based on long range guard placements. IE you can get the hits with them, but it requires skilled placement and survivor tracking.
The Banner feels weird to me as well. I watch my games back when there's a streamer and they literally can just circle a rock 3 times and then pick up the flag..it honestly looks stupid and way too easy. I feel like we need either way scarier guards, like they need to get the flag and it's justified, or the flag feels unnecessary for how weak they currently are.
Post edited by Blueberry on3 -
At least his addons MUST be something that matters, like merging specific guard addons (so you'll get buff AND can summon them twice in a row)
It's funny how only 5 or so of addons have something even noticeable.
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I am supposing a re-work is in order. When a killer is released it often comes in as a concept that has had some real world testing but only in the Steam PTB. It is great that BHVR is trying to come out with new powers and play-styles for killers. When that happens it may take several months in full release to gather the stats needed to make any meaningful improvements. Give the Knight and his boys some time and I bet in less than a year from now they will be much better.
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He's actually good.
Play to his strengths.
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True, I just wish he had other styles. I really like the idea of his power. Being able to summon minions and control the map should be cool. Being a necromancer juggernaut is cool to nerds like me. It just feels so undercooked and restrictive. You can't make the guards too strong in chase or else that's all they'll be used for, and you can't make them insane at defense or else you make the 3 gen problem worse. I really think if the guards had other utilities based on their character it'd make him so fresh. But that also comes with the problem of making them TOO strong or nuanced to be used in chase.
I like the idea of Jailer making up for his slow mobility and short chase time by blocking vaults or pallets. It at least gives him some utility in chase and potentially threatening outside of it. An Idea I would love for Carnifex is being able to throw a pallet to for him to break, but also making him disappear. Or Assassin triggering quietly. Anything to just play into their strengths and make them more interesting.
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So hold a 3 gen until survivors give up? Got it.
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I don't mind going against the 3gen strategy, but I do not have the patience to set it up to use for myself.
I also think the guards could be fun if they had alternate uses, I'm not sure what it would look like.
Maybe if one could chase and expose on a hit, another call all auras in an area...
But, this sounds like a new killer.
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Basically yeah.
Ultimately, that's his most optimal playstyle when you mix in smart long range Guards.
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Knight should really just be able to tap CTRL or something to swap between his guards on command, that would be a decent boon to his power level and a much bigger one to his QoL.
The Mark of the Jailer charm states he's a "tireless pursuer, exhausting his prey", but he's... really not.
Maybe they should give him extra chase length (maybe somewhere between assassin and carnifex) and he Exhausts his target for the length of the chase + 5 seconds (like Fearmonger)?
And maybe Carnifex can get a little bit of extra movespeed, but not more than Assassin of course
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No she isn't. They aren't even close in power level.
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When going against knight I see him get maybe 1 hit off a guard per game. Most of the time, the guards do absolutely nothing. Cool power.
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I´d rather not have Twins 2.0 where the only thing the knight can do, is 3 genning.
The guards need a buff. Otherwise he will turn into one of the most boring killers to play and to play against.
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I find it funny that your describing exactly what I do vs knight guards. I just loop rocks for 3 spins and grab flag. then hop on generators if the knight tries to pressure me with guards.
I share same opinion that knight should be rewarded more for tracking the survivor and accurate guard placement and less rewarded for zoning. in general, I think zoning is unhealthy and heavily disliked in the game because it has little gameplay interaction between the survivor and the killer. All killer are going to have a few moments of zoning in their gameplay but it should not be the bulk of their gameplay. I think zoning is healthy if it has a mindgame to it similar to old deathslinger gun/ranged killers but not healthy if its forced zoning into guaranteed hits.
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The whole design is unredeemable. He is a 3 gen killer and that cannot change. There's no sensibile way to buff his guards without buffing his territorial strength, unless you literally make patrol time minimal. But then you'd have the whole chase be devolved to AI, which is even worse.
So, if you want to play as him, play the way he works, if you want to save yourself a lot of headache. He locks down an area while harrassing other portions of the map. That's his (awful) identity.
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More like Knights still pretty lame. How could they give such a cool concept and killer design that kit? Nothing gets me like teal(albeit a light version of it) with undead involved, then they just made the killer boring by design. It's funny, for the longest time walking at people in video games while being too far ahead for them to do anything about it was my favorite(league), but a combination of dbd in general and leagues meta has turned that opinion around quite a bit. Something like Knight is boring for both sides and creates lose/lose unskillful situations that shouldn't even be put into concept at this stage of dbds life span. It's why blight at his core is a fix to the games flawed design, take is from someone who has always hated large amounts of mobility designated to a single character in a video game.
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Honestly, watching good killers like Otz play knight, it seems like people are using him wrong?
The way otz seems to play is not just dropping a guard at every opportunity to chase somebody, he seems to play it as an M1 killer and uses guards to break pallets and to chase survivors in dead zones. Otherwise he sometimes sends guards a long distance to pressure gens while doing something else.
Basically, you might be overusing your power.
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I think he's pretty good, B tier perhaps. The very first match, I brought Map of the Realm and Dried Horsemeat. Without those addons, detecting and getting a down with guards is a lot less consistent.
He's also excellent at gen pressure. The 2.5% extra kicking power to his guards was unneeded.
He's mostly about strategy and having good game sense.
I like that a lot, would make him a lot more strategic. Make it possible to send out guards when near a wall too so it's less clunky, give him maybe half of Horsemeat and Map basekit, and he'd feel fantastic. Then we could nerf his 3 gen, somehow. Maybe kicking the same gen with guards becomes less and less effective, going from 2.5% down to 2, 1.5 and finally 1%. Ofc recharging over a minute or so.
Being able to cancel a patrolling guard after say 50% of the duration would also be nice.
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I agree.
I really like the Knight thematically but he still feels underwhelming. It feels bad to lose some games where there’s nothing you could have done to change the outcome other than picking a different killer or tunneling someone out asap. Ironically we can apply this to like 90% of the killer roster though.
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Otz plays every killer the same way, because he plays the game professionally and is really good at reading and predicting survivor behavior. Anyone can do that given time.
That's not how I prefer to play the game though. If you give me magic ghosts to fart out I am absolutely doing it at every opportunity. I play him like discount spirit because it's fun for me. It sucks that it's not really viable against good survivors.
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No that is a good way to use him. You mix the two styles together. I think the pallet break zoning is cool, but like I mentioned it doesn't matter much if they have another loop 3 feet away. Guard snipes are really the fun part of his kit, yet they rarely provide enough substance to do anything.
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