So why is dead hard allowed to be meta for 6 years?
But certain killer perks aren't?
Genuine question that I would love to know the answer too. Dead hard stays meta for years and years in a row, but certain killer perks become meta for months and then get butchered, or the ones that were meta for years have already been butchered...
But dead hard can stay? Even while it's vastly the most picked survivor perk by far? If not top 3.
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i think dead hard cannot be nerfed without changing it completely. the rework, while some will call it a nerf and some a buff, kept the main ability of the perk (to counter killers on demand) as that is what makes the perk what it is, and that ability is fundamentally too strong (and inarguably a lot more fun than something braindead like overcome), which is why it's still meta and very popular.
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Dead hard is super strong I agree. But I also think that it’s a touch to the game. Yes bla bla bla the killer shouldn’t be afraid of the survivors and all that. but have you seen the newest killer? It’s literally a survivor (nea) with a mask. How can survivors be scared of that.
Jokes aside yes the perk is strong, probably way too strong for some killers (not all). But it’s hard nerfing it since there isn’t alot you can do. They already took away the most hated thing about it, the way survivors got distance with it. And instead they added a free hitburst but at the cost of you having to mend/have a very dark screen for the rest of the chase. Not alot of people realize that it works as a slowdown for gens. The mending is 15 seconds? (correct me if I’m wrong) where as if you leave the survivor after they deadhard pr they get away they still have to mend. And if dead hard is that big of a problem for you then I assume you get deadharded multiple times per match so you can add those seconds up and see that it is helping you in some way.
Eruption was worse then deadhard because it completely ######### over soloq people. And if you’ve not realized BHVR is trying to close the gap between swf and soloq so the change was needed. Now the change (nerf) I agree was a little over the top but it is healthier for the game this way. We’ll have to see until the next time they show us the kill rates for killers to know if it did a large impact or not.
Also do you killermains actually like to kick gens over and over? I know it’s super hard to win without bla bla bla. Just a genuine question. I can’t see any fun in kicking gens all game
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Because they only introduced perk overhauls several months ago. They told us that it would now become a regular thing. So yeah, be prepared now for perks to be more frequently reworked. And tbf to them, they did nerf DH several months back and made it harder for its users to get value from. So it's not like they haven't acknowledged the perk or attempted to make it less appealing.
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"nerf"
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Dead Hard was changed though and I wouldn't call it meta when it first came out. It took a couple years before it got wide use.
Like to also point out that before DH was nerfed, all post about it was "Dead Hard for distance". So that's what the Devs did. They removed the ability to use it for distance. Survivors had a meltdown and stop using it for a month or two. Some Youtuber or Twitchy said it was still strong and people started using it again.
Now we are back to DH OP pls nerf threads everyday. The only consistent thing about this community is it's never satisfied.
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Idek care that much about it, but like... if killer perks are going to be butchered for being meta for a few months... surely survivors should get the same treatment? especially when all of the killer perks to be butchered have been gen perks... Like are we just going to keep nerfing every gen perk until survivors having a free sign at every gen saying "go right ahead" and then killers finally get their ability to kick gens completely removed? Like what's the point.
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Can I offer to remove dead hard and in exchange NOED also gets set on fire? Getting to 5 gens with two people left and then getting smacked by a comeback mechanic is brutal.
I can see why Killers don't like dead hard. I don't use the perk so it wouldn't really matter how it was changed, but I don't know how much harder it can be nerfed. When they nerf the perk it just becomes more useless to lower skilled players, whilst still being great for more skilled ones. The nerfs harm the wrong players.
You could try to find a way to nerf it further, but I think Killer players don't want anything that grants a third health state in general. The only thing that will be satisfactory would be a total rework.
I'm more on the side of buffing meh perks so there's more diversity.
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no since they took already a similar perk for killers (Eruption)... if you want to take out noed then you should have erased it alongside adrenaline imo, but still with the actual genspeed noed is a necessity most of the times (also people NEED to learn that besides generators, other objectives exist as well)
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The current killer play is overwhelmingly stressful
[Dead Hard] is too strong and the killer win rate is low
It's very stressful.
I felt that it needed adjustment, such as being able to use it only once in a position match.
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We don't have data on usage for all years afaik. Considering that DH didn't work for at least 4 of those 6 years, I don't even know why survivors were running it. Maybe they liked getting exhausted on the floor.
It became really hard meta only a year or so before they put validation on it, because by then it was well understood that it should've been used for distance primarily. And then it's been reworked. If the rework was insufficient they'll do something again, but I think they'll probably tweak the lesser used exhaustion perks instead.
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Let a hit be a hit. A down is a down.
The frustration is "All the effort, I'm going thru, getting pallet stuns, in order to win mind game and chase then to this moment of DH, which is another refresh of chase where i get pallet stuns all over again and again"
Its not fun to play vs 4 DH every game. You will be lying if its fun for you as killer.
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I can play around dh all day. But that's the issue, playing around it all the time is monotonous. Any other game and it would have been gutted for the sake of it, for half a year at least.
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I would love to see more freshness in perks in general. The time as they reworked a lot of perks at once and brought the killer adjustsment as well. IDK it was great to have something new to deal with. Break up the bubble again, it would be nice to discover new builds, experimenting around and such stuff. I think once per year a change of the most used perks is something what would keep the game interesting.
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"they added hit validation to dead hard which made it an S tier perk into an SS tier perk. I was about to quit the game forever."
Man, those evil Devs, making a Perk function as it should after it was bugged for a few years.
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DH being around for so long will always be the go-to for Killer Players I guess. That other Survivor Perks were nerfed very fast or did not even make it out of PTB-State before becoming nearly useless (looking at Reassurance which is only worth thinking about in a 4 man SWF, and even then there are better options...) is obviously ignored.
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I remember those figures, but unfortunately that's aggregate data, not by year, at least for the first table. The second one aligns with what I said.
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It did not eat Killer Powers. If you got a "Hit" and saw Blood while the Survivor used DH, this was a "Hit" you should not have gotten in the first place, but which you got, because DH was bugged before.
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Short cooldown and no real penalty of using this perk ( deep wound is barely a penalty here ) is the reason why this perk is still so commonly picked despite being ''nerfed'' from 1 second to 0.5. What it needs is either longer cooldown or some kind of penalty other than deep wound that should apply to survivor if dead hard protected from the down ( like hindered status or sloppy butcher effect ). It's essentially a third health state with 0 drawback that can be reused again and again. It's no wonder this perk is still so popular.
As for why it is not getting nerfed properly - devs are very reluctant when it comes to nerfing survivor perks. They do slight nerfs if there's huge complain resonance from either of sides and since there isn't enough reaction from killer players ( obviously survivors won't complain here ) they just keep things as is. In other words - there's not enough noise to pay attention to.
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Because BHVR clearly have no idea how to change many perks appropriately. I'm a survivor main and even I, who hated Eruption, thought it was changed poorly.
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God forbid bhvr having learned from past mistakes and now deciding to act on overwhelming things within half a year instead of 6.
Stop making it a survivor vs killer thing and be glad they've upped their response time from literally half a decade to half a year.
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It’s still a net nerf for the perk
I feel like people forgot how stupid old dead hard was
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It’s very simple. BHVR knows where their revenue comes from. A good portion will go away if they weaken this perk too much.
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what even is that chart. The x axis in particular... It can't be measuring over time total because COH is on it from the beginning to the end.
Anyway, DH was inconsistent trash before multiple rounds of Hit Validations fixed it, which came after YEARS of 'exhausted on the ground'. No **** BHVR never got around to nerfing a perk that literally didn't even work half the time.
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I remember a streamer saying it wasn't until MMR hitting that DH became meta.
I also remember a time where it was Balanced Landing on Haddonfield meta that everyone was complaining about which led to the stagger nerf of Balanced.
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the chart is usage % of the perks (y-axis) in a particular mmr (x-axis) and the thickness of the lines are based on the amount of matches played in that mmr (so the thicker = more data)
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I would have never realized the X-Axis was showing MMR. Thanks.
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Except... they haven't. Look at how fast eruption got killed, and yet I've seen no mention and no nerf to dead hard after YEARS.
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I see no killers respecting the meta shake up, all bringing four slow down perks despite their entire base kit buff. Survivors on the other hand I see a mixture of builds and dead hard never works for my teams anyway, the killer just waits it out (not hard so stop complaining?)... If anyone needs a meta shake up it's killers but thankfully the dev's are nerfing eruption and pain res as they've clearly noticed how the meta shake up didn't seem to apply to killers.
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just so you know, dead hard no longer gives the survivor a burst of speed automatically, so it can't be used for distance to get to a pallet or window.
also, if you get hit with it, you go into deep wounds and have to spend extra time mending, so it works as a tiny bit of passive slowdown that way (although admittedly, not much).
on top of that, it doesn't work while already in deep wounds, so if you play a killer that inflicts deep wounds or with an item that does the same, it makes dead hard useless
finally, it doesn't grant invulnarability, so it can't be used to bypass doctor's shocks or trappers traps (among other things) so those killers have a little more counterplay to DH
just thought you might want to know those changes were made, since you (incorrectly) seem to think that dead hard hasn't gotten any nerfs since its creataion
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Yeah but its still extremely stupid. Sure its a true 50/50 against m1's now but in most if not all cases against m2's its just a net buff and not all m2's are like wesker and blight.
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Oh no it's gotten nerfs. But absolutely no nerfs to actually remove it from the meta. It's still hard meta, it's still boring to play against, and it's still in 80% of people's loadouts for survivors. It's boring asf and having to worry about ANOTHER health state people just have at the click of a button constantly.
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"Mixture of builds" for survivor LMFAOOOOOOOOOO
Yea dead hard every game, stacked asf medkits every game, BNP every other game, so mixed.
Also "Just wait it out LOOOOOL" Ok and just wait eruption out right????
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Kinda true but it was already good against m2’s. Now it gives the speed burst but against nurse and blight they don’t care
It does hurt killers like pig but tbh old dead hard was still worse due to the distance aspect being more versatile and how it had 0 risk
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Nah I have to use Dragon Ball terms for this one. Nea and Kris Jenner did a fusion dance and this was the result
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Trading DH for Noed is a bad trade. Noed isn't even good and usually gets cleaned immediately upon activation. A fair trade would be Eruption
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For me, the problem with DH its the validation, that let survivors greed pallets/loops, making killers waiting to survs DH or risk a hit and maybe prolong the chase for a couple of time. I don't think they will go back in validation, but it created an issue.
I understand that in some instances DH is more balanced than before the nerf, but it still feel like a frustanting perk to face, specially when you wait for 10s+ and the surv still get the boost.
Post edited by Rickprado on0 -
DH is probably the most agitating perk in the game. I can outplay someone, they hit E and I need to keep chasing.
I have finally hit good survivors before, only for them to DH and now the chase is extended by a long time cause of that 1 perk.
Yes I know you can drop chase, thats not my point.
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Dont talk to me about what killers find fun.
I have had many games where a survivor hides so much, and just slams the gens out I literally dont see them until theyre going out the exit gates. Is doing gens so much fun youd rather not even SEE the killer.
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Yeah it's probably not a great trade. But after several matches of NOED and never being able to find the Hex totem I'm getting desperate lmao
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Sprint Burst is way stronger than Dead Hard.
The reason why DH is seen more than Sprint Burst is just the fact that DH is more fun to use than Sprint Burst.
As a Survivor you don't get much buttons to use but DH gives you another one to interact with the game and mindgame the Killer. That leads to fun.
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On top of all that, wasn’t Dead Harding through a Trapper’s trap not a thing till hit validation?
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Dead Hard was nerfed half a year ago...
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To answer the why question: let's presume Dead Hard is broken, a clearly superior perk, and being taken by the majority of survivors (all of that is debatable, but let's go with it). Now say we we cut dead hard or make it useless, what happens? The game's balance wildly swings. If there is a perk being used that much by survivors and you couldn't just make a slight adjustment to killers to keep balance, it would have to be pretty significant.
As for people talking about eruption: one thing being missed is that a major issue with the perk is that it was devastating again soloQ, and barely a nuisance against SWF.
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It was indeed nerfed (some say it was buffed, but that's utter nonsense), but it is still quite strong.
There are two problems:
- As others have said, there's no way to nerf it hard enough to boot it from the meta without changing it completely
- BHVR doesn't seem to have the ability to appropriately nerf perks; it's either the feather duster or the sledgehammer with these people
It isn't rage inducingly OP like it was before, but it's still annoying, and prevalent. That said, I don't particularly care that it's still meta.
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Eruption got nerfed because it unfairly affected solo queue. I get it.
But then why didn't they just have it affect anyone who repaired a generator in the last 10 seconds so that SWF can't easily use comms to broadcast the incoming Eruption and avoid it altogether?
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It objectively has been nerfed, yes. You have goldfish memory or simply are dishonest if you can't remember the degeneracy that OG DH allowed.
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