Tunneling is the meta, thanks to the devs.
This is what it has come to sadly, make the game a 3v1 asap or lose. Because no amount of downs or hooks are gonna matter IF the survivors are just efficient at gens. All the new information on the survivor hud is cool for solo survivors but has also massively boosted gen speeds. The gen regression perk nerfs have also encouraged killers to tunnel more, because why go for hooks and not even get rewarded for it? Some survivor mains think that killers are just vile disgusting players that just want cheap wins and thus tunnel, but that isn't true most of the time, tunneling is literally the only way to win against decent survivors. Otherwise, enjoy those t-bags at the exits.
If they just balanced the maps instead of increasing gen speed, it would help massively, breaking like 40 pallets while other survivors sit on gens is the actual problem.
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It always was the meta?
When has it never not been
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I think survivors have picked up more so on the map design and gen speed issues as well. I’ve started to see more groups just pre drop everything since they know that there’s enough overly safe loops once the pallets thrown that even throwing them that fast the gens will be nearly done by the time they run out. It’s quite annoying as you basically are just playing a pallet break simulator and not actually getting to even try to play skillful and play the game till you’re down to 1 gen or less. Hence all the tunnel someone out asap.
Prior people could at least stack tons of slow down/gen regression instead of the tunneling asap to compensate but as those get nerfed there’s only one option left.
If the majority of the games loops weren’t way overly safe once the pallet is thrown and more of a 50/50 mind game of who’s the more skilled player we’d see way less pre dropping.
Also maps in general need massive shrinking in size to be more playable.
People who don’t think tunneling is ever necessary to win (and no not just comp) I don’t think understand the games balance very well or play killer at a high mmr. While there are people who tunnel because it’s easy that’s not the majority, the majority is rectifying game balance issues.
Post edited by Blueberry on10 -
there are many and very imaginative ideas how to solve the tunnel problem. a quick look at the feedback forum is enough.
None of this is implemented at all, no, they even keep a low profile and keep quiet about the problem.
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It stands to reason that if tunnelling was a problem in the devs eyes, it would've been rectified years ago
but it hasn't, so it's not a problem. (To the devs)
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Ultimately there's never been a benefit spreading hooks so the best play has always been to force an early survivor death.
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Tunneling is the meta not because it's necessary but rather because it's easy and effective.
In extreme examples like Otz or in comp, yes, you will need to tunnel since Survivors there will be extremely optimal, therefore, you must be too.
In most of our regular pub matches though, it's not required, it's just the easiest and most reliable way to win quickly.
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And even if they did somehow benefit the killer for spreading hooks (something like Grim Embrace, for example), not all chases are equal. All it takes is 1 survivor to be uncatchable to get denied whatever reward they come up with.
Unless... part of the reward is a token system given for each hook and gives the killer faster Bloodlust gain, until any 1 survivor is sacrificed, and then all tokens are lost. (Beast of Prey re-work?)
Now, the killer can save the uncatchable survivor for last, go for the others (without tunneling them out of the game), and use the Bloodlust to catch that uncatchable survivor to get the final reward for having hooked each person once.
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People are going to tunnel no matter what. You see killers run 4 gen defense perks and still don't play for hooks.
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I sure wish I saw more predropping. Survivors I come across try to mindgame every pallet they can. They assume that you'll respect the pallet the first time and don't drop it, which gives them an extra loop or two around the pallet if they were right.
Obviously, not respecting pallets just results in taking a bunch of pallets to the face, because not everyone does that.
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This guy gets it. The developers love it. They think it is cool as can be. That is the only "power" a Killer really has in this game. To force at least 1 Survivor to have an awful experience each game sitting on the hook or crawling on the ground. If every single Killer played like that now and forever. Using the dirtiest tactics to make 1 persons experience simply abysmal, they'd have to change it, but BHVR is lucky.
They have Killers who play much more "fair" than they should/could. If you want the game changed, show the developers how badly their game is designed by doing what those Killers do. If you aren't trying to win at the game and just ruin 1 persons day, that really doesn't make for good game play on either side. The fact that it is allowed to happen is the root issue. Have more systems in place to make sure 1 person cannot be targeted constantly in your game.
I don't mean perks either. Actual mechanics of the game. Slugging, for example. Remove it. It serves no purpose.
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Pretty sure 95% of the survivors that complain about tunneling are immediately body blocking with their BT/OTR as soon as they get off hook. This happens every time someone gets immediately farmed off the hook in front of me when I play killer. You want to stop me from not tunneling? Fine, enjoy getting 6k points and getting hard tunneled out immediately. Remove collision from unhooked survivors since you guys don't seem to learn your lesson and keep doing it
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Killer's attempt to create a 1v3 early is similar in principle to how Survivors gather in Gen and act in groups of two or more. It's just going to be more efficient and Devs should try to balance the game with this in mind.
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It varies. I think you see more pre dropping the higher mmr you go. I do think a lot of groups will test you though as well. If they can tell you’re a good mind gamer they’ll quickly switch to pre dropping.
Generally speaking if it’s an ultra safe loop like a jungle gym for example you never respect as that is extremely punishing if they fake you. The only ones you could consider respecting are the mind gameable ones. Can’t afford to ever respect safe loops.
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Tunneling was always the meta
So nothing changed, you just don't need to deal with DS now, so its even better
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Nah I disagree
Tunnelling was still just as powerful back then as it is now and there hasn't been a single era in which Killer players were satisfied with the state of the game. I'm not trying to be antagonistic when I say that, it's just the honest truth as I was around for both of the eras you mentioned
Granted survivors have never been satisfied either, it's not a killer exclusive issue.
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if they remove slugging, more people would run and abuse builds that make them unhookable
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Oh yeah I'm not saying they are unrequired or unnecessary
I just think saying they are meta now when they have always been meta is the wrong way to look at it.
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I'm not sure about this.
I predrop a lot of pallets, and I'm not a good survivor. I do it because I don't know how to loop, so I'd rather just stall the killer for five seconds than risk going down even quicker than that.
If they just predrop every pallet on the map, you're kicking them just as soon as they can drop them, which is the main goal of a first and second chase in a game with an M1 killer.
If you're talking about predropping against specific killers as a counterplay (it doesn't make sense to not predrop pallets against Nurse, Spirit, Nemi, etc.), that's one thing, but that's how you're supposed to deal with those killers.
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Well that’s kind of the problem with pre dropping. It can win you games even if you aren’t good at looping with how fast gens are, that’s why even the really good comp loopers pre drop.
I actually don’t think that’s the m1 killers goal in the first couple minutes. Of course varies which killer as well. if you’re just kicking pallets that are pre drops for the first few minutes you’ve basically already lost the game.
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Multiple people on gens is actually less efficient, there's a speed penalty.
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But if you're an M1 killer, there's nothing else you can really do. The goal is to make the map unsafe. Your first chase is long, but it pays for later, shorter chases.
And yes, if you're playing against survivors who have any idea how to play, gens are popping in the background like machine gun fire if you didn't think to bring Deadlock (or Ruin/Undying in the old meta); that's why people have such a low opinion of M1 killers.
Luckily, in public matches, survivors usually do not have any idea how to play efficiently. Playing Ghostface or a non-gimmicky Myers build against a comp squad rarely ends well, but not every game is against a comp squad in public matchmaking, even at higher MMR. People are off looting chests and blessing totems or teaming up on gens without Prove. So it works out.
Also, some of the teams I've played against who I could swear are indeed comp squads loop me to hell and back and know exactly when to drop the pallets and how to use them effectively. They don't just predrop random pallets; they run me around the loop exactly as many times as they know they can do safely, chain several windows from different structures together, and top it all off by using a pallet to stall me at that point so they can run me around again or make it safely to the next loop.
Those are the guys you really don't want to run into as an M1 killer. If that happens, yeah, just better to drop chase and go pressure gens in hopes you can catch someone off-guard.
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It's the meta because most people want easy wins rather than improving. That's not to say there aren't still balance issues but more often than not people just take the easiest path.
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Thay won't remove camping, Tunneling, or Slugging because those are valid strats to create pressure and they confirmed this. It's not the Killer players job to worry about anyone else's "fun" but their own.
The best way I have seen to help incentive for hooks is make Hooks actually count for something like a growing buff for them or debuff for Survivors.
I have turn matches around in my favor because of camping at end game or Slugging that one annoying looper and letting thier team waste time picking them up.
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I'd say the only time it wasn't meta was during the post-conspic nerf DS era. That perk actually punished tunnelling.
But then it got cut in half for no particular reason and now we're here.
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I don't know why they nerfed time like they did I would of been happy it was disabled at end game but keep the stun time
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You must not be playing against any of the teams I have been on in my solo queue matches. Half the time survivors will refuse to do gens or get off a gen and go hide if they hear the terror radius even though the status indicator shows someone else being chased. If you ever face a solo queue team that I am on, I promise you can win without tunneling.
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Yes.
But, we can never see that from the killer's side.
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some people don't understand the rules of hide and seek.
if you're found and don't make it to home base before getting tagged you're out.
at least the entity is nice enough to give survivors 2 chances.
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Everyone had bt and most had ds as well causing you to be stunned 5s so it was weaker if survivors were prepared. But if no-one had bt or ds then yeah it was too easy and in those games you didn't need to even tunnel as most of those survivors were bad.
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You say tunnelling is the only way to win against decent survivors. Thing is, decent survivors aren't going anywhere. They can balance the maps better, leave gen regression perks as is, etc etc, but decent survivors will still exist and you'll still face them. And if they're why you tunnel, then you will still tunnel.
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Give the unhooked survivor at least 60 seconds of invincibility. If the timer runs out and they happen to be in chase, the invincibility lasts until no longer in a chase. They can't go down unless grabbed from inside a locker. Conspicuous action still applies.
Increase gen time by 25 seconds
Every time a gen is completed, 5 seconds worth of repairing is reduced from all gens.
Killers cant tunnel anymore if they want to win but gens will take longer anyways
Done.
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tunneling has always been the meta since 1v3 is an autowin for killer 95% of the time.
You don't need to tunnel to win consistently, saying so is simply and objectively wrong.
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No more 4K effortlessly is worst state for Killers
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You say this like killers don't tunnel on midwich and coal tower. I'm not saying they shouldn't make red forest smaller but acting like tunneling will vanish if they shrink the maps is just ignorant. Tunneling will always happen because it will never not be the easiest way to win.
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No what they need to do is to increase base Gen regression
.25 charges per second is (word I can't type) VS. 1.0-2.2 charges per second
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-"Tunneling is the meta not because it's necessary but rather because it's easy and effective."
When was the last time you played as survivor and got all 7 gens to 33% before ever getting one to 66% progress? The answer is never because that is inefficient.
Survivors tunnel the generators when they are efficient and this forces the killer to tunnel the survivors. Make gens take longer so that they can't be "tunneled" (add base kit deadlock as a start. change the perk by the same name to make the effect last +30 seconds longer. Add rollback protection so that if two gens finish at once then one is rolled back to 99% progress and locked). Change the game so that there is a better base kit reward stronger than tunneling for not tunneling.
Otz tunnels in almost every game I have watched him play this month - if he wants to win. When a 9k hour player needs to tunnel to win you know that it is necessary.
You are a survivor main spreading misinformation. Both sides tunnel. Remove tunneling for both sides or neither. The real problem is people like you who want to tunnel gens but get mad when the Killer tunnels one person out of the game as a response.
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LMAOOOOOO
IM A SURVIVOR MAINNNNNNNN 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Proof or are you just gonna accuse people of being a Survivor main because you don't have any good arguments.
Post edited by Pulsar on10 -
You and Nancy were always have been
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Everytime they implemented the an idea on a PTB, survivors abused it to hell and back, and the idea didn't go through.
SO all you have to do is come up with an idea to stop tunneling is come up with an idea that is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt impossible for survivors to take advantage of to gain a competitive advantage.
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Wait, who's my Nancy :(
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If the devs cared about tunneling it wouldn’t be in the list of things they don’t care about
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95%? Where do you get these numbers? You can’t just create straw man stats out of thin air to support your personal belief. 🤣
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Idk. I try not to tunnel if I can help it
that being said people literally hide in lockers while injured
they run into me on purpose to use their bt or otr then wonder why they get chased. Well don’t use it offensively, it’s an anti tunneling perk and you just wasted it you stooge that’s YOUR fault
people on death hook choosing to body block someone I haven’t hooked yet
i just body blocked a knight who refuses to hit me so he could HARD tunnel michaela. I blocked between bushes and he literally went AROUND the loop instead of hitting me
but I also just watched someone hide in a locker sick against plague and get pulled out
sometimes it’s not tunnelingnits just trash survivors who could probably play better if they played both sides. Def helps me play both BY playing both
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Then just nerf those builds.
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Ok? They never said tunneling is bad or wrong? Gen rush is also the most effective way to win what is wrong with it? Winning is never "fun" for the other side. Tunneling and doing gens will always be meta.
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... a 4k SHOULD require you to sweat, not be "effortless." You're one player taking out four players on your own.
Why should one killer player have an effortless time getting a 4k, but four survivor players should not have an effortless time escaping?
Why is it that a killer not being able to effortlessly 4k means killer is in the worst state it's ever been?
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Idk.
It's just surprising to me that people think Killer isn't the best it's ever been.
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A certain youtuber will post a match of a killer losing terribly on YT with the clickbait title "BEST KILLER HAS EVER BEEN" and act like it proves a point
^ That is an actual thing btw, obviously can't name names but look it up if you're curious.
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Hmmm, how unfortunate.
To be honest, I'm rather disappointed that @DBDVulture hasn't responded to me yet :(
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