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Dead Hard, again.
Everyone else is having their say, so will I.
As we all know by now, dead hard is a very broken survivor perk, I do play both sides I choose to run SB rather than DH.
The main issue with DH is the potential to extend a chase, even when the survivor makes a mistake, significantly.
I've had a very good amount of games where a survivor, out of position, uses dead hard and extends a chase by an extra minute.
You might ask - why not bait it out? Why not leave chase?
Well, baiting it out "waiting for it" is pointless, the survivor can use this time to get to a pallet in which they guarantee safety and leaving chase simply is a massive waste of time and leaving them would simply allow them to heal up and do it all again.
Another main issue I have with it that some seem to forget is this game is 4 v 1, if all 4 survivors, of equal skill, use dead hard and know how to loop you can extend a chase by a minute at least, if all 4 survivors do that, that's an extra 4 minutes wasted by then most gens will be done.
One perk should not have this sole power, especially when 4 people can use it against you, I'd certainly like to see it changed, to anything. the 3rd health state on a perk is ridiculous, even if it was changed to a one time usage (Like DS) it'd be much better.
Comments
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Deal with it and bait it. You use SB, good, you use the superior exhaustion perk.
Does killer fun even matter for a survivor perk. New killers don't care about the survivor's fun or counter play, so why should that be a priority also.
And maybe if a chase gets extended by "at least 1 minute" for a DH, than maybe that is your skill issue and not the perk
But i guess spamming the forums with constant DH forums will eventually work.
Man, i will feel kinda sorry for M1 killers if DH gets the bhvr delete button, i don't think you know how much you benefit from survivors not having SB against you especially.
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Peanits asked for more DH posts, so he gets more DH posts. Anything for our friends at BHVR.
DH is a bit like the final boss in many old school video games. You kill it once (6.1.0) and it comes back to reveal its true form (current DH) and haunt you until you finally unlock your true power (discussions for the devs) to erase it from the face of the earth (future DH nerf / rework).
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Here is my take get over it ? It’s easy to bait if this gets a nerf cause of potatoes I’m leaving the game is pathetic if dead hard leave the game decisive strike gets a 5 second buff and works end game killers aren’t gonna make this game easier for themselves it’s too easy all ready most just camp tunnel and three gen it’s pathetic
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Survivors have 3 universally good exhaustion perks. How would you expect variety.
All matches are against DH, SB and lithe. They together have a near 70% pick rate. DH is just the more popular and frustrating for the Killer because of how is activated. I can definitely see how it's not fun for the killer.
But, i might be tired of hearing hyperboles of the perk being a free 3rd heath state or being uncounterable at pallets while spamming the forums with no real good solutions besides delete the perk or do this, easy solution.
Because if something was that easy of a solution i think it would have been made already.
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Think we know who relies on DH to do anything, I've explained in the post why you cannot simply "bait it"
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And are people not allowed to use perks fml get a grip please
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So eruption is fine then?
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LOL says the one crying to get it removed if I like dead hard what is it to you.
Post edited by BoxGhost on0 -
Even if you were to take nightlight's stats (which are unreliable at best), the perk's overall usage is still FAR below what is was prior to the patch.
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Quality bait
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And I either run dh or sprint burst vigil but keep crying the dead hard isn’t going anywhere anytime soon keep making your threads it’s boring
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Considering at least 2-3 survivors use it every game (more or less) I'd say it's usage is certainly up there.
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DH provides more than every other exhaustion perk. That's why the best players use it.
Dead hard will always be a broken perk if it allows for three health states. It needs to have some negative to cut down its usefulness to make you "lose" the time you gained in a chase. This could be any one of the following :
- You become broken for the rest of the match after using DH once.
- All healing actions on you take 100% longer for the rest of the game b/c you have DH.
- DH can be used once per game
- DH gives an endurance effect but offers no movement speed
- You become unable to vault or drop a pallet for 10 seconds after using DH.
I could just say to you : do a different generator if you are worried about eruption.
DH is the one perk that completely changed how every killer must play around every time they go to attack a survivor.
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It's one of those perks that even if the survivor doesn't have it, you still have to play differently just incase they do have it, that in itself is strong, nevermind actually having it which makes it even worse, especially for killers whom cannot catch up unlike Nurse Blight ETC
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Where are the numbers to back up this claim?
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You're right. That doesn't mean it's not the most used perk anymore though.
In my matches there are at least 2 DHs still. Anything below that is a very rare and very welcome occurence.
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And yet eruption got to keep its regression and got the incapacitated reworked into an aura perk
While you want to put 5 restrictions on a single perk?
You could simply put the survivor unable to do actions for 2 seconds after a DH if the survivor fails to take a hit and it would solve the, this perk is uncouterable at pallets issue.
But, that is not enough, because killing a perk is better.
And then people complain that bhvr kills perks when doing balance changes, this is the type of feedback they get.
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He said any one of the following, not all 5.
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Oh?
You have access to every DBD game played in say, the past two months?
Mind sharing?
Personal stats do not equal overall stats.
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Mhmmm. I thought we didn't want to nuke perks simply because they were popular? Self-Care and PGTW come to mind.
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A small portion most of us really like dead hard Who is the majority us so keep dreaming kiddo
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Don't get me wrong, nuking perks is something I don't think should be the go-to solution to this issue. But what else are you going to do at this point? The pick rate shouldn't be as high as it is. Especially when that perk requires counterplay that consists of waiting.
Reasonable nerfs aren't going to cut it because there are too many people that will not stop bringing DH religiously. The remaining options are to nuke DH or to rework it from the ground up. I'm fine with either of those.
I just want that stupid waiting and spinning to bait out a hit or giving free health states in my matches to end.
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Are we all going to pretend the fact that DH nowadays only works 50% of the time doesn't exist?? The many times you still get downed despite your screen clearly showing that you're exhausted, thus meaning you've used DH, but it did absolutely nothing. The other 50% of the time that you time it well and use it and take a hit with endurance, it's truly and utterly fine.
If you're struggling SO HARD against one perk, maybe you should lose some matches and get back to playing against people that are more on your skill-level :)
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You guys really mad because people like and pick a perk most survivors don’t even hit their dead hard I see people fail it all the time you need to practice with it people pick it cause they see everyone else using it
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So we should nuke Windows and Pain res too?
Their usage rates are also absurdly high AND Pain Res got "nerfed" in 6.1.0
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If it's really that inconsistent, why defend it? I don't think the latency issues with it are going to get fixed anytime soon.
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Because when it works, and you've timed it well, it's worth it :)
That's like asking why use any perk? 😅 Why do you think?
Post edited by Phantom_ on0 -
I mean, Lithe, Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing and Overcome are all way more consistent than DH will ever be. If it really bothers you that the perk is so inconsistent, you're not lacking for alternatives here.
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Coming from console to PC the biggest issue I see with DH is the amount of FPS you have at your disposal. Like when you're playing at 120fps DH is more of an annoyance than overpowered. You might fall for it a few times per match but it's so easily countered by either waiting and/or using fast basic attack. Most people wait for a lunge attack to press it, but if you have high FPS a quick basic attack is generally very hard to counter with DH.
Playing on console is a completely different story though and I would imagine it would be similar with lower spec PCs that can't get high FPS. It feels very oppressive when you're on console and is significantly stronger.
This could also be said for many aspects of the game through. Better computer performance means better, more consistent gameplay.
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Dh can be very annoying as it is having to spend 5 seconds to get the hit becuase the survivor starts spinning trying to get it and sometimes they may by pure patience... is annoying.
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Thats because DH is sucking the fun out of this game; the killer side at least, I bet the survivor players who know how to use DH are having their time of their life, being back in the power role.
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But they did nuke them. And Ruin. And Iron Will. And Eruption. And Thana. And Calm Spirit and Pharmacy for some reason.
All of these got nuked for the same reason - unfun and overused (except for CS and Pharmacy which were changed for no reason at all).
Why is Dead Hard the exception? It's been meta for 6 years now. Freddy was popular for a year and got destroyed, Thana was meta for a few weeks and got destroyed. Why is the most unfun and overused perk allowed to remain but the others aren't?
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I am sick and tired of the DH, SB, BT combo!
It feels like no matter what you EVER DO a "magical white shield" will show up and deny you everything.
If y'all want to play "Lets do gen and leave when we bored" instead of "Dead by daylight, a killer will murder you" then say so.
All my matches recently have been against a bunch of sweaty try hard on comms not even bothering with the gen.
I try my earnest to threaten them but not MATTER WHAT its like they always have something.
I am sick and tired of all that crap said by survivor mains who abuse these perks while the Killer's toolbox are getting SHREDDED patch after patch.
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They aren't sweaty if they weren't doing gens.
Sorry.
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you sure talk a lot for someone who's wrong.
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You sure avoid the point for someone who thinks they're right.
Also, you need to work on that victim complex.
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I like how you picked out the more emotionally-charged argument that looked weaker, and not the one above it, quoting you, pointing out that Dead Hard has more than fulfilled the prerequisites for something to get nerfed.
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I point out things that I think are intriguing, that usually means I think they're wrong.
Unfortunately, BHVR's track record does indeed indicate that they nerf things based off of popularity. There's really not much to argue with there, whether or not it deserves to be nerfed again is likely irrelevant. In my original statement, I was implying that people were upset they were doing that and therefore, we should not be using popularity as an argument.
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I do not recall seeing a single Killer complaint about Windows of Opportunity in all the time I've been on this forum, so that rules out the "unfun" component of "unfun and overused".
Dead Hard has had, what? 6 years of dominance over the meta, and 6 years of widespread complaints? It's the Ruin of Survivor perks, only it's survived multiple waves of perk changes that Ruin didn't. If DH doesn't warrant a nerf, what does?
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Pop got ruined by the perk rework. Eruption will be completely worthless after the change.
It should have been changed to : Kicking the gen applies your kick perks again when a survivor goes down. When the gen erupts it cannot be interacted with for 30 seconds. The survivor can either wait out the timer or go do a different generator.
Eruption is a healthy perk for the game that encourages chases. Pop did the same thing.
Meanwhile the most overpowered survivor chase perk got a buff that made it stronger for the best players (but worse for the average joe).
Also as it has already been stated - I said pick one.
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Actually, Balanced was the preferred Exhaustion perk for quite some time.
I'd say I only REALLY started noticing DH more after Dedicated Servers were implemented.
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For someone who's so critical of others for avoiding the point, it's strange that you, once again, didn't really answer someone's question. If DH doesn't warrant a nerf, what does?
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I believe I did, I addressed your supporting arguments, which were false.
DH hasn't been complained about for 6 years. It's really been complained about for 3-ish. Dedicated Servers were pretty garbage when they first came out and that made DH suck for a while. Then they added hit validation and I think that's when I started noticing a LOT more complaints, rightly so.
Dead Hard got it's nerf. It is FAR weaker than it was and its no longer a skill-less "i win" button.
I could maybe see giving it a 60 second timer instead of 40, but I don't think it currently needs a nerf.
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You have the strangest sense of time, my dude. 3 years of meta dominance isn't enough for you? Any serious multiplayer game dev would look utterly incompetent for letting the meta stagnate and ignoring complaints for that long. Like, it's really not that hard to have the meta cycle through different things as time goes on.
What made the perk strong, what made the perk overused, and what made the perk unfun are all still there. Hence the complaints continue.
If you think Dead Hard doesn't need a nerf, name one Survivor perk that does.
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Currently? I don't think any Survivor perks need nerfs. I think a lot need buffed.
I also think that, barring Eruption, no Killer perks need to be nerfed. Most of the Killer perks need to be buffed as well.
I think a lot of the imbalance right now comes from map design, map offerings, items and add-ons.
Nurse HAS actually been queen for 6 years. Blight's been #2 for 3 years now. Other than some of his add-ons, I think Blight is in a fine state. Strong and popular doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be nuked. There have certainly been innumerable complaints about Blight and Nurse over the years and yet, curiously, they remain #1 and #2, respectively.
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So what is it that justifies the nerf to Eruption, and essentially nothing else?
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The fact that it can be used to hold matches hostage, much like Boil Over was able to do.
Also, Incapacitated is far too strong on a perk with no cooldown that can be applied to multiple gens. I would've been fine with it being changed to gen blocking.
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Well, holding matches hostage is a pretty low bar, honestly.
I could make a similar argument against Dead Hard. An activatable third health state is far too strong for an Exhaustion perk. It punishes lunging, counters several Killers' powers, makes the Killer second-guess every swing, buys you extra time and gives you a chance to escape even if you get caught in the open; and if successfully activated, gives more value than any other Exhaustion perk by a huge margin. And that's after the nerf. Strong, overused, and unfun to play against.
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I had sort of hoped Eruption wouldn't go live after it was on the PTB, but hey, took people a while I guess.
That's all assuming you actually LAND the DH. It can be baited out, it can get hard countered by Killer powers and it's harder to use than any other Exhaustion perk. It can also get cucked hard by latency. If the Killer has a connection over 100ms, good luck landing that #########.
If you get hit by DH out in the open, that's completely on you. There's absolutely no excuse for that, the advantage is completely on your side as Killer in that scenario.
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No, I'm not assuming that. Even before DH actually comes out, it drastically changes how the Killer has to approach a chase. And nowhere is this more evident than with what happens if you don't bring any Exhaustion perks at all, or purposefully miss your DH once and then never use it again; many Killers will still act like you have Dead Hard, and will make many suboptimal plays, likely passing up obvious opportunities to down you, in order to avoid a nonexistent E.
DH weakens the Killer's chasing ability in a way unlike any other Exhaustion perk, even when you don't land it. No lunges, no power, no instant swings, unless you want the chase to go on for another tile or two. And in a game of inches like Dead By Daylight, that can be crippling.
The advantage is on the Killer's side when you're in the open, sure, but the Survivor still has a chance. The Killer can't just keep staring at the Survivor's back forever, so if the Surv manages to randomly guess at just the right moment, they can still get away.
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