Dead Hard, again.

-"And the fact that everyone is ready to call a 10% regression + 12 sec aura reveal a worthless perk, just shows how much you all just rely on game delay instead of actually making plays."

I expect you to laugh in my face if I said deja vu was a good perk and you should use it. There is no way I can get any value out of the rework of the eruption perk (which originally was going to be 10% regression of current progress).

The current version of the perk gives forces a survivor to stop working on a generator and keeps them from doing anything for 25 seconds. The rework should have just made the generator regress for 30 seconds and nobody can work on the affected generators.

You just pressure a different generator (said in the same tone I imagine everyone saying : you just bait the DH).

I almost never use eruption. But the majority of people I play against use DH.

-"Pop and jolt encourage chases and progressing the game."

Pop is beyond dead and almost nobody is using it because most of the time you're getting 5 seconds of regression or less (when you factor in how long it takes to kick the generator). This perk used to give you 20 seconds every time you used it. Would anyone still use Sprint Burst if instead of getting 150% speed for 3 seconds you only get a speed burst for 0.75 seconds? I think not.

For Jolt to be a valuable perk it needs to apply any kick perk you have (that does not require a cooldown) to the effective generator. Actually let's talk about regression speeds. Killer regression without a kick perk should be equal to a single survivor if four people are alive. The fact that it is not is a reflection of poor design and shows just how out of touch the developers are with their game. Whenever anyone dies just cut the regression by half. That means with 3 people alive it would be double the current speed and with 4 people alive it would be four times faster than the current speed.

Jolt does literally nothing if :

1. the map is large
2. The survivors run early because they are in a SWF or they are paying attention to the hud and the terror radius. Shift W is a huge contributing factor as to why why there are only 2 viable killers in the game.

If CoH got a nerf on the level that Eruption was getting then killers would be destroying any boon with no perk just by kicking it. Likewise if hex perks were buffed to boon levels then they could be rekindled indefinitely and instantly (just like a pentimento interaction) unless every dull totem on the map had already been broken.

Boons would be balanced if you had people desperately cleansing totems all the time for fear of the killer always using Blood Favour. And that's exactly what would happen if that change went live. Overnight every killer would be using Blood Favour because it would be reactivated over and over again until every boon on the map had been destroyed.

-"Baiting DH out requires literally one second. A killer wise to DH won't get burned by it."

If you're at a pallet and you have DH then I can't counter any play you make. That's broken.

You can also watch killers like Otz wait 3-5 seconds against very good players and they still have not used the DH. You're spouting some false rhetoric that is only viable when survivors do not play the game well.

Hardly, at a pallet it's not going to be a sure thing, the timing required to pull off a play like that is insanely tight. So many players on this forum seem to have a top down mentality. Just because the absolute best players in the game make effective use of it means a perk is broken?

You're basing an opinion on the top 1% of players and that isn't a healthy way to base game balance. If I can bait out DH, from players who have over 100 days solid playtime, on the regular. When I have only been playing since august last year then it can't be "broken"

It's a good perk to be sure. The absolute top players make damn good use of it. But it is by no means unbeatable. It is counterable. It requires skill and fine timing to use. If new survs were out playing experienced killers on the regular because of it then yes it would be broken. But they don't, and it isn't.

I feel like I'm expected to do a full proof by induction at this point. I explain why I think DH should be nerfed again and next thing someone asks me "Well, what about this random other point / thing?"

Do either of these perks require your opponent to specificly counter them even when they can't be sure if they're in the game? Pain Res + DMS does that and if that's what it takes for DH to get nerfed, by all means I'll support you in killing both of these perks. I'll even pay for the coffins. Besides the synergy gets another shadow nerf with the longer screams in the next patch, that will make this problem disappear.

None of these perks are as disgusting to go against as DH is. If they were, there wouldn't be this many threads about DH and more about them. I would probably be indifferent about DH, if it had never been this overused, but here we are. Every game it's the same old thing. The killer get's into position to hit an injured survivor and now the killer will wait. No skill, no mindgame, just waiting. This is not fun. This is not the experience you want in a game.

Please have a look at this discussion as well. We've pretty much covered every single point regarding DH already:

Something else I would like to add: No other perk is hated with so much passion. There is always another discussion of why DH should be nerfed / changed. After the QoL updates survivors got this is the least BHVR can do to improve QoL for killers. Why should it be ok to make the game more fun for one side but not look at the perk that makes most people playing the other side miserable?

That's almost funny. Almost.

You ignore arguments about why people despise DH so much, claiming 'it's not that deep' when it actually is, and then don't understand the problem. If you are happy with current DH then that's good for you. I and many others as well still want to see this perk gone.

I don't want to wait after every survivor. I don't want to constantly second guess, if I can allow myself to use my killer's power against an injured survivor and I don't want to deal with a perk that I don't even know is in the game yet anymore.

DH is an anti-fun perk to play against. Such was Eruption and it's a good thing the devs did something about it. Nerfing Eruption but keeping DH the same when every reason for Eruption's nerf applies to DH as well is hypocrisy.

Dh is more fun even it does not always give value but usually killers are not smart and lunge midnlessly if everyone would bait it out I would not use it. But when it does get value it's better than any other exhaustion perks.

Well, let me pierce Dead Hard with an instant M1 attack, maybe reduce the speed duration a bit. Should make the perk less obnoxious, since once a killer is right behind you they can just swing, and not wait 2-5 seconds every time. If it's so easy to "bait out", why bother needing to bait it out at all? Like saying "hook grabs are easy to counter, just spam unhook for 5-10 seconds until the killer swings". Sure, but does anyone actually enjoy that?

I don't mind it hardcountering lunges at pallets, I just think the whole "guess at which point in time the surv will activate DH is extremely unfun, for both sides. Like spamming unhook to not get grabbed. It's stupid.

No, I don't fear Sprint Burst suddenly becoming twice as popular as old Dead Hard. That won't happen, and would also be an improvement if it did happen.

It went from 42% usage to 34%. Just nerf it like I said and it'll be fine.

If this was a skill issue, DH's usage would go down at higher MMRs, not up. Top-tier Killers wouldn't keep running into it, or swinging into it.

I mean, look at this #########. You couldn't ask for someone to put more effort into baiting it out:

-"But Deja vu is a nice perk"

No it isn't. There is no survivor main like JRM saying: bro you need to get on Deja Vu right now at top tier MMR. We can look at how often the perk gets used and it's probably sitting somewhere between 1-4% or less.

DV is a training wheels perk. It has a purpose that can help new players. Windows does the same thing but Windows also helps a top tier survivor loop more efficiently.

-"Pop was nerfed to hard, but now you are complaining about some of the best killer perks like jolt being bad."

Jolt would be fine if the killer had 1:1 regression with a survivor after the generator starts regressing. If you explain this game to an intelligent person this is usually one of the things that comes up. There are four survivors working at 1.0 and the killer has 0.25 regression. In other words the ability to finish gens is 16x greater than the killer's ability to undo them.

Meanwhile safe pallets and DH can make a chase last over a minute. Three people working for one minute = three minutes of progress. This is why the killer is expected to lose two gens in the first chase. If you trade a generator for a hook every chase after that the game is quickly over for the killer.

"-I am not even saying that CoH is ok. But saying boons are OP compared to Hexes?"

-"How are boons better than Hexes, besides CoH."

Compare NOED from 2016 to noed in 2023. Compare map design from the same points. What was NOED supposed to do? NOED was designed as a "revenge" factor for the killer. The 2016 version was :you were hard to get before the end game but now here's my revenge with never ending NOED with 9% speed that cannot be removed. In 2023 we have survivors that are nearly as hard to catch as in 2016 but the perk is useless except in very specific situations.

I never ever use hexes. Unless you have just the right kilelr (like demo with whistle) you can't defend them and that is the design.

Boons however are designed so you can't really destroy them - this is foolish.

Boons should be as easy to destroy as hexes. If boons can be renewed then hexes should work the same way.

I would use hexes if they required survivors to break all 5 bones to prevent their use. That's not how it works so they are trash.

-"CoH is OP, boons are a weak and a waste of time for survivors"

Watch the very best killer streamers play DBD. When they lose its usually a combination of 3/4 man SWF+boons+strong items. This is a recipe we see over and over and over.

You have no idea how the game plays out vs good players if this is what you think.

Because unlike you, even with its inconsistency I have ZERO issues with DH whilst playing either role. It's a fine, nay great perk! :)

Now go use your circling "arguments" on someone else, and stop spamming my notifs.

Deja Vu has been a staple in my games for one reason alone.

It helps counter the Eruption 3-gen meta. When Eruption goes away, I'll probably take it off, but it provided a ton of value.

I don't know if I'm wrong or right. I do know that Monolyth kinda went and made a silly post right after this that sort of proved my point.

What I do know is that DH simply isn't that big of an issue to me.

-"Ok, no you are just insane if you actually think some of your suggestions are ok."

That's rude.

-"The game is in a really healthy state for survivors"

This statement is true but the problem is that the rest the sentence which I truncated is false. DBD is not fun to play as killer right now except at low ranks and mid ranks. At high level play you need to play Blight/Nurse or an A tier killer with best in slot addons.

That sucks.

-"But somehow you seem think that killer is dying or something. Bhvr has continuously been helping killers since the game came out"

Killer has been the unpopular role for roughly 6 years. There was a killer strike for DBD in the first year; queue times at one point were ~15 minutes for a game. That same wait for a game of VHS killed that game before it came out of Beta.

Killer buffs are almost always two steps back and one step forward. A perfect example is the changes overall to survivor and killer in the 6.0 perk rework.

Survivors forever and always get Borrowed time off the hook. This was increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Mind you that before this rework BT was a meta perk. What perk did killer get base kit? Nothing. There was no base generator slowdown perk like Corrupt or Deadlock. Now nobody ever brings BT. In short survivors have 5 perks every game.

Otz, a player with 9k hours, has stated that the last perk shake up has caused him more stress than any other point in time as a killer main. He made a video some time back saying he would "no longer be playing nice". When this is how a 9k hour player feels - what is a 90 hour player killer main supposed to feel? The answer is likely : switch to survivor or switch to a different game.

Killer is not in a healthy state when the bonus for playing killer is almost exclusively sitting on 100% bonus for playing killer.

Saying Deathslinger and Legion completely invalidate DH is being a bit generous tbh. There's lots of scenarios where, if DH weren't a factor, a normal M1 would be the optimal play.

At least it's much more balanced than it was before with what it did giving you distance, can't take dmg, can dh over bear traps. The perk is just an overall ball of #########

Deathslinger, Legion, Trapper and Cenobite all have powers that can destroy DH at loops.

I would argue that insta-down characters forcing people to not heal is a good thing. You are getting huge value out of that. Easier tracking, less health states, riskier plays and a bigger punishment if they ######### up.

You forgot that insta down killers are widely balanced around the ability to down people in 1 hit.

All these 'benefits' mean very little for anyone that has enough experience to keep track of survivors without the help of perks. Even I can do that for the most part and I'm not some insane top MMR player. This is also time that these survivors do not spend healing. Meaning they get faster on gens.

Also there are killers that will use their insta down abilities to get hits even on injured survivors. Oni, Billy and Bubba come to mind. Basically with DH the way it is these killers are heavily discouraged to use their powers on injured survivors because timing DH against those is really not difficult. Instead they should just play M1 killer and hope to get into a position where they can wait it out. When that will often take way longer than hitting that survivor with the power.

Billy and Oni still get insane mobility even without being able to instant down.

Bubba, Billy and Oni all shred pallets when in their powers.

Ghostface and Myers are both stealth Killers (or psuedo-stealth) and no Survivors wants to be injured against that.

Seriously, watch the comp match Monolyth posted. They hit a ton of DH's but it literally didn't matter. They got eviscerated by that Oni.

I think they got tilted after the first DH, which is unfortunate.

These are clearly very good Survivors who have a lot of time in the game. Most Survivors do not (and cannot) play in that way.

This just seems like the sort of thing that people said about other perks. At the highest level, it's POSSIBLE that people can time their DH's perfectly and that you could be playing a Killer that has issues with that. But for most of the playerbase, it's not really going to happen that way.

Regardless, I suppose I'll retract what I said about Bubba, he can go through it, but perhaps it's not consistent. Still though, Lery's is a pretty bad Bubba map, I think.

I think while he can go through it you realistically are using most of your charges to get the hit in the first place making the speed boost avoid the follow-up.