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Why this looks like M1 hits are validated on killer side?
Killer used VPN to be literally on other side of the planet
Best Answer
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Hits have always been handled on the Killer's side, hit validation only steps in when the Killer has been stunned or when the Survivor is a significant distance away (though the distance is intentionally fairly lenient). In a case like this where the Killer was in fact stunned, the server checks which came first, the hit or the stun. In this case, you can see the Survivor get hit before the Killer is stunned it both perspectives, meaning the stun definitely came second. Since the Killer was not quite far enough away for validation to deny it based on distance either, the hit went through.
It's tricky because while lowering this distance would protect Survivors from more funky looking hits, it would also cause a lot of totally valid hits to be rejected, especially when you introduce things like Coup de Grace into the mix which could make the discrepancy between the server and players even larger.
But to answer your follow up question: No, the match is hosted on a dedicated server, not the Killer's system.
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I was suspicious that we'd silently switched back to killer-sided verification, as opposed to server-sided, and this appears to confirm it.
EDIT: THough, aren't killer games always hosted to killer anyway?
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I'm not an old player in this game but as I googled and heard they supposed to switch to server client model since 2020 but I think either it is not or it is still partially peer to peer
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Looks like a normal game on EU server against killer from africa, russia and middle east.
Maybe BHVR should reconsider some decisions.
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It is understandable that this is very tricky mechanic but in case you encounter killer from far away it looks totally unfair and not counterable. Are there any plans on region / latency issue?
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Ever wonder why BHVR didn't fix the IP address leak that has been common knowledge since the Artist came out? The Killer is still pretty much the host, dedicated servers just act as arbiters between matches rather than actual servers. Significantly cheaper that way with one hundredth the traffic per match. But can't fix the IP leaking, since everyone needs to connect to the killer.
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@Peanits The technical constraints are understood, but the least you could do to mitigate the problem would be to show the killer's ping in lobby to survivors (and please the actual number, not just the current icon). So people could decide if they want to play this match or not. Even having 100 ms is a clear advantage that guarantees the killer a free surprise hit on everyone in the lobby. Inexperienced most likely don't care, but I can tell you 90% of big survivor streamers would dodge 100+ ms ping killers...
High ping is banned in DBD tournaments and iirc even BHVR rules say it's bannable to use a VPN in order to get an unfair advantage so why can't we at least know if the killer is doing it other than taking a hit? The game would need to show current ping as well as the max ping over the last 5 seconds so we can also detect lag switchers.
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Killers with high ping would be dodged every game and wouldn't be able to play at all.
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As far as regions go, it's never off the table to expand into more areas. The bigger question is if those regions could support it. Without enough players using that server as their "home" (best connection), wait times and match quality would suffer.
Latency is a much more difficult topic. It will always be there, we cannot get rid of it because it takes time for data to physically travel around the world to everyone else in your match. Servers help a lot with this as they're typically able to receive data and send it back out to other players much faster than a typical PC or console, and we also do some magic to visually reduce the discrepancy both sides see (e.g. projecting players in their predicted position based on how they're moving).
But ultimately, there's no way to remove it entirely. Given the nature of the game where one person is running away from another, the Killer is always going to see themselves closer to the Survivor than the Survivor will on their screen. Given that, the server will step in and reject hits if someone is way too far away, but it needs to be a little generous, otherwise completely ordinary looking hits could be wrongfully rejected.
Long story short: It's possible there will be more improvements made to visually reduce the differences both people see, but realistically it will never be completely gone. Technology's got a long way to go before that's possible.
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Oh no!
Anyway
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Yes better create unplayable lobbies and waste the time of the 4 other people who have a normal connection, right?
Have you even seen the video shared by OP? Can you say this will be a genuinely fun & fair game?
This game is incredibly latency-dependent, you shouldn't be able to play it at McDonalds.
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Regarding the second paragraph: did you consider, I don't know, to code better your own game? Literally the own game in the entire world where hit validation awards the player with the worst ping
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The video shared by OP is tame compared to most games I play, and they're far from "unplayable".
But no, lets exclude huge swaths of the playerbase from playing the game. Lets just blacklist hundreds of thousands of players because they don't live next door to the servers. DBD is an exclusive service that only exists in a few cities. You need to move to London or Frankfurt to play DBD. Forget playing for Playstation Plus, you need to fork out for a visa and a new apartment.
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Are this issues more common with crossplay?
Sometimes i ask myself if the problems i see are because of the console, the killer's connection or EU servers.
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That's fine they're using unfair advantage so no-one should have to play agains't them.
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No, never, you're the first person to think of that. I'll let the team know right away that we can pull off a world first feat and instantly transfer information across the world simply by doing code better.
For the second part of your point, Overwatch and Valorant to name just a couple examples.
Overwatch has (or had, I admit I haven't been following it lately to see if this is still the case) a method called "favour the shooter" - basically meaning that if you see yourself shooting your enemy, you did. The game takes your word for it and only intervenes if what you're claiming you did is impossible. This is fairly common practice in many online games, Dead by Daylight included, because it feels a lot better when you're the shooter (or in our case, the person swinging a weapon at someone). Shooting or swinging at someone and arbitrarily whiffing because that's not where the server or the other player thinks your target is feels incredibly bad. But on the flip side, this means that getting shot (or hit, in our case) can feel a little worse. In a shooter, this means getting hit when you think you're behind cover, and in our case, getting hit when you feel like you're too far away.
The alternative is forcing players to predict their opponents' movement and "lead their shot", shooting not where they are, but where you think they'll be half a second from now. This feels way less responsive and takes a lot of skill out of things. You're no longer aiming at them, you're aiming at where they might be. A lot of older shooters work this way and needless to say, it's not ideal.
Obviously there are limits to this. If the server sees that your connection is slow and the Survivor is actually pretty far away or if you've already been stunned by the time you hit the Survivor, it will step in and reject the hit. But again, this is tricky because making this too strict means rejecting fair hits.
There's a video discussing how this works in Overwatch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTH2ZPgYujQ
And as for Valorant, there is an amazing blogpost detailing some of the difficulties they've faced with things like "peekers advantage" (where peeking around a corner gives you an advantage since it will take a while for your opponent to see you peeking). It's a long one, but if you want to see more example of how networking in video games work, check it out: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode
Now where this comes back to DBD: We have some unique problems to solve. Shooters have been around for a long time and for the most part they have to deal with the same issues. But whereas in a shooter both sides will be peeking in and out of cover while shooting, that's not how things work in Dead by Daylight. Instead, we have one Survivor running away from a chasing Killer. This means that no matter what, the Killer will always see themselves closer to the Survivor, but the opposite will be true for the Survivor. The truth is what the server sees somewhere in the middle.
If you blanket reject all hits that look strange to Survivors, you will be rejecting a lot of very legitimate hits from the Killer's perspective. Every single time the Killer lunges and juuuust barely hits the Survivor, that hit would be rejected. Your lunge would basically be non-existent if that were the case. Needless to say, not ideal.
We tend to favour the Killer in these scenarios because as long as their connection is decent, there is reasonable doubt that the hit should have connected. Pallet help clear things up a lot because there is a timestamped action showing when the Killer was stunned and when the Survivor is hit, so the server can act as an authority and resolve that dispute. But in the case where there is no stun (or the stun comes after the hit), it can only base its decision on positions.
Long story short, no, it's not the only game that has to fight with latency, and changing a few lines of code is not some magical solution.
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they tried making the hit val not biased and killers were not happy from having to deal with something that survivor had to deal with for straight years
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I don't know how you play DBD, but the balance of the game is designed around loops, especially on a map like Gideon where you can't hold W, this tile showed in the clip is supposed to be a loopable tile, but just because the killer uses a VPN it suddenly becomes a completely unsafe, un-mindgame-able tile where you'll take a hit regardless of what you do.
You will 100% lose a game like this as survivor and learn absolutely nothing from it - you are right though, strictly speaking you can still play the game. But, using your same logic I don't see what's the problem with dodging high ping killers either. They too, can still play the game (they will just have longer queues).
You don't need to live next to a server to get <100ms ping, stop exagerating. I live in the countryside of France in a completely isolated town with 250 people, and my ping is ~25 ms. In fact, my ping to St Petersburg in RUSSIA, at the opposite of the continent, is 75 ms.
No one is saying it's your fault for having a high ping. But it's not the 4 other players' fault either.
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It shouldn't be possible to play if your internet is perma 150+.
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to summarize it. the only adjustment there is is how high the killer ping can be. currently the limit seems to be over 1000ms (2000 irc) at which a killer can start a game. a red symbol is displayed from a ping of 300ms. however, this is already practically unplayable for all survivors.
So the question again, why are killers allowed to start a game with a ping of over 300ms although it is obvious that their internet connection is not sufficient for this game. furthermore, four other people are punished for the killer not having adequate internet connection. let's say the killer plays 4 games a day. that's 16 people he's making miserable just because his internet connection is bad.
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…additionally, neither Overwatch nor Valorant ‘reward’ or validate the actions of players with unusually high ping. It’s important to point out that this is like an exclusively DBD thing, at least in my experience with online games.
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My ping is always 20ms and I always die so far from the vault. I also am unable to pull down palettes in chase.
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Being from Southern Africa I can tell you it ruins the game.
I can't play as the game intended because I will be hit vaulting a window when my feet land or 2 steps thereafter.
Having 185ms lag + my reaction time makes it impossible to loop without resilience. So upset they removed SC vault speed bonus!
Many of those whom have high ping will lean towards killer as survivor is too difficult.
Either hold w as survivor or get free hits as killer. Both being boring.
Please just add more servers, ther are so many smaller indie games with servers in Africa. Peer to peer were better times.
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i wouldnt say having high ping is an unfair advantage, its hard asf to play with high ping
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thats because overwatch and valorant are 5v5, not 4v1. if the 1 cant do anything, whats the point in playing?
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I just had a match with a lag switching survivor. Every time he was in chase his ping got red and the killer was not be able to hit him.
This is an exploit that should be fixed too.
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the hit validation is a long story and it will probably never be solved as long as there are people at bhvr at work who had several years to fix it so that a killer who has a high ping is not rewarded (unrealistic hits, ie often Igories, etc.) everything that has to do with hits is killer sided, except for the pallet validation, I'm surprised that it still works so smoothly to this day, EVERY GAME can do it except dbd-BHVR, it's enough! I have no hope there is a lot going wrong in dbd and the only hope I still have how it can be solved is if dbd is bought up by competent developers or what is more unlikely bhvr throws out the people who can't manage it and gets people in who can fix it, because how can dbd be the only game with this pointless problem? as a killer: high ping = be rewarded (hit from a distance which people cannot react to, DHs are ignored etc.), good ping = be punished (you really have to hit, you have to respect all DHs etc.)
I think I also know that in csgo if someone is lying then he hits me even though I've already disappeared behind the wall (sarcasm, of course it's not like that!) or when I play LoL I get unrealistic hits all the time (sarcasm) but now seriously, why isn't it like that with them? general with NO GAME is it like that! simply because EVERYTHING is server controlled and because the server really controls everything and doesn't spread lies and false hopes (hit validation) like in BHVR
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