To everyone saying DH is so easy to counter...
Comments
-
Holy strawman
1 -
To be fair, he's got a point
3 -
The strawman fallacy is attacking an argument that hasn't been made.
The OP posted the comp videos. The OP then posted an Otz video. That's literally the evidence underlying the argument. People on the other side pointed out why that evidence didn't back up the claim.
That's the opposite of a strawman.
The Oni videos are bad evidence because the Oni just powers through the DHs and still wins. If you don't even try and bait a DH its not evidence one way or the other on whether DH can be baited. It also shows that eating the DH is an acceptable strategy, especially with a killer like Oni.
And on top of that, 4 DH's were pulled off. A minimum of 6 were possible. That's a 66% usage/success rate among top players with a straightforward killer. Doesn't seem like a problem.
The Otz video is bad evidence because Otz clearly misplays it. It's also cherry picking because I've watched plenty of videos were he baits out DH easily.
1 -
The strawman fallacy is attacking an argument that hasn't been made.
Correct. So now please show me where I said comp or otz are not relevant? I said the results of those matches are irrelevant and gave reasons why, not comp or otz in general.
2 -
The strawman fallacy is attacking an argument that hasn't been made.
Correct. Now can you please quote where I said comp or otz are irrelevant and not saying those results are and here is the reasons why.
Post edited by Trollinmon on0 -
Would the middle paragraph work?
0 -
For what? Not sure what the context is exactly.
0 -
Lmaoo these responses didn't go the way you planned huh? W replies.
0 -
For below
We don't know how to quote specific parts of a post so sorry if we're spamming you
0 -
In every single post of mine I've talked about the videos. I even specifically referred to the OP. You're jumping in the middle and just presuming that people are arguing with you.
That's why the strawman claim is silly.
If you want to do a study of comp videos or Otz videos and make an argument off of that, go right ahead.
0 -
Omg you guys cannot shut up about this. He literally still got a 4k after eating the DHs. If anything, all you did was prove how DH isn't the problem perk you think it is if people can activate it and still lose.
Honestly find something else to complain about
0 -
It's because people will not stop embarrassing themselves trying desperately to argue over irrelevant things
0 -
Let's not hop on the "ThIs Is NoT fAiR" bandwagon acting as if both sides don't create unfair and uncountetable situations via perks and gameplay. Seriously don't do it
0 -
I'm not the one who keeps bumping this thread; y'all are. Why are you so desperate to hold onto one stupid perk? The Killer perk meta gets nerfed practically at the drop of a hat, but when a Survivor perk that's been in the game almost as long as Ruin has is called into question, it's too much?
1 -
DS, Self Care, and Calm Spirit basically got gutted and 2 of those were meta perks. You guys are so desperate to cry victim over perks in a game to the point you had to create a thread using evidence that's not even supporting you just to cry Mald and seethe.
The meta itself has been gutted on BOTH sides so the fact you guys spew the same KiLlEr GoT gUtTeD crap is wild.
0 -
Hey, only one perk showed up in this patch's balance changes, and it wasn't a Survivor perk.
I'm fully willing to acknowledge that Eruption was a stupid perk to play against. Is it really so hard to do the same for a perk that punishes you for hitting Survivors?
0 -
I guess I'm a filthy Survivor main who clearly abuses Dead Hard and never ever plays Killer.
0 -
It is hard when a majority of the time, it's not exactly hard to wait it out. And even if you can't wait it out, a lot of killers have either decent mobility or have anti loop tools.
Is it so hard for you guys to admit the actual problem with the game is the gen meta rather than malding at a perk that requires you to fail in chase and gets countered by deep wound, bad ping, and the dreaded waiting it out tech?
1 -
If it's that easy to counter it, why is it showing up- and getting value- in tournament finals? The tournaments that don't limit the perk to 1 per team often outright ban it against Killers other than Nurse or Blight.
Getting two hits in a short timeframe against good survivors is hard enough, but increase it to 3 with Dead Hard and there just isn't enough time to chase everyone without camping, tunneling, or 3-genning. And then Survivors get mad at you when you play with this in mind.
0 -
Wow we're still trying so hard to complain huh? Following your exact logic, why are killers still getting 3/4ks despite seeing so many DHs in these tournaments? You conveniently tried to gloss over the fact the DHs weren't enough to stop the tournament Oni from winning the whole thing. Clearly if people are getting kills despite DH existing, then obviously DH isn't the earth shattering perk that's saving impossible survivor games.
You guys want to complain about anything and everything so bad it's funny
0 -
You realize the Survivor team was only allowed to bring one Dead Hard; rather than, say, four?
But let's take this argument at face value: If the opposing team can still win against something, then that thing is fine. So, pre-nerf Moris, Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Freddy, Ruin, Corrupt Intervention, Pain Res-DMS, NOED, Thana, and Eruption were/are all fine. There's no shortage of videos of good Survivors winning against all of those things, after all.
0 -
Why are you so desperate to hold onto one stupid perk?There's two possibilities:
1: Let's say DH is the strongest perk in the game for survivors. Killers are still winning. If in fact the perk is that strong taking it away without massive other changes and the game becomes lopsided.
2: Let's say DH is no stronger than other exhaustion perks. It can create distance just like Sprint Burst and Lithe. It gets more, but comes with a risk. It however actually gives survivors something to do. Instead of just holding W for as long as possible, it creates a mind game between survivor and killer.
1 -
1) I find that unlikely; the comp players I've talked to put Sprint Burst juuuust below Dead Hard in terms of strength, and actually more powerful in some situations; it's not unheard-of for teams to bring 1-2 Sprint Bursts even in unrestricted matches. And if Survivors genuinely need a buff, there's lots of ways we can buff them that aren't as aggravating to the Killer. Like with a reworked Dead Hard that does something completely different.
Also bear in mind that the video I just showed had the Killer using pre-nerf Eruption; if he didn't have it, it's likely he would have lost the one in Azarov's Resting Place.
2) More complexity is not always better. The Killer can't be everywhere at once, so they usually can't stop at least a few gens from popping; they can only try to limit gen time by ending chases quickly. That doesn't make gens a bad mechanic. Now, to clarify, there are issues with gens as a mechanic, but the fact that Survivors will usually get at least some gens done and there's not much the Killer can do about it? That's not one of them.
And in a similar vein, there's often nothing a Killer can do to stop Sprint Burst or Lithe from activating; they can limit the impact of those perks by, say, herding the Survivor in a bad direction, but they can't eliminate the perk's impact completely. Again, that doesn't make them bad mechanics.
And DH is similar; even if it misses, the Killer usually had to waste time playing around it, potentially even giving up a pallet stun or window vault in the process. And its nature as a high-risk, high-reward perk means it doesn't need to activate every chase to be powerful.
So, what's the point I'm trying to make? There are mindgames around all of these things. Dead Hard's is more obvious than most, but given how frustrating it is for the Killer, how it denies basic gameplay options to the Killer, I really wouldn't call it a healthy or fun mindgame.
0
