my solution to camping and tunneling

i play both sides so i'm not favoring any side. these perks should be basekit in my opinion to prevent what the title of this thread describes...camping and tunneling. survivors don't camp or tunnel and i have also given a very strong endgame option to be basekit as killer. no way out have got me many kills as killer already. you of course need at least 1 person dead and 1 other person should be hooked before no way out triggers, but even if just one person is dead you can combine this perk with many other perks like remember me, noed and rancor just to name three.

in addition to that these perks being basekit wouldn't make survivors stronger, but rather protect them from unfair playstyle of killers. it's no fun hanging there being face camped 1st hook for 3 minutes straight without being able to do anything in that match or being tunneled off hook just to be hooked again repeatedly. if you can't imagine that you should try playing survivor and experiencing this at least once...it's no fun at all.

on killer side i can only think of one unfair thing and that's gen rushing survivors. that's nothing that could be addressed with many killer perks though. no way out is one perk to slow down "generators" or rather the endgame and therefore also gens in a way. corrupt intervention has already been nerfed by bhvr deactivating once you down a survivor. by the time you down a survivor this perks mostly runs off anyways though. the only change could be done by removing items and addons completely or leaving only brown items/addons as i have suggested once already or prove thyself could be nerfed though for prove thyself to work efficiently you need at least 2 survivors working on a gen and that's again rather a problem of swf in contrary to solo queue because swfs are way more coordinated that even 3 gens mostly aren't a problem, but for solo queue it is and that's why eruption got nerfed.

in my opinion op addons like tombstone for myers, double range for nurse or 4x brand new parts are way worse on survivor side than perks. perks that speed up generators aren't as strong as regression perks from killers are, but survivor addons make it stronger and you are 1 killer vs 4 survivors. so if every survivor had a green toolbox with a brand new part and combine that with gen repair perks it really gets annoying. gen repair perks itself aren't as bad though. so items are definitely the big problem in my opinion here.

despite that being a rather you problem than a me problem this isn't the topic of this discussion to begin with. if there is nothing to separate paragraphs are of no use.

it seems you don't read properly. since i have said i play both roles i have of course seen survivors stay on a gen the whole time until it's finished. if the killer doesn't interrupt them then what else should they do? stand around doing nothing? this thread is about fixing the game towards a fair gameplay and not just about one part of it. i'm not taking sides on this one. i will not just support killers so they can camp and tunnel even more.

camping and tunneling just has something to do with gen progression or regression in 1 of 10 cases. in all other 9 cases killers camp for whatever reason because they have fun to annoy survivors, because they had a bad day, because they think survivors are favored generally, because they weren't good enough, because they play bubba and just want to abuse their killer etc. there are all kinds of reasons why killers face camp/tunnel and i can speak from experience that it has almost never to do with gen speed.

when i get face camped at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. if i get tunneled right off the hook at 5 gens it has nothing to do with gen speed. so how does this have to do with gen regression or progression? exactly! it's not connected to it! gen regression and progression is a whole different topic in dbd. this is about fairness. killers aren't treated unfair if the gens fly by. you can take gen protection or regression perks with you just the way ppl say survivors should take tunnel/camp perks with them, BUT there aren't any strong gen repair perks on survivor side except for prove thyself and again this perk only works when multiple survivors work on a generator. there is not a single other good gen repair perk for survivors except prove thyself and that's a limited perk. if you run discordance you can counter that perk.

no...having these perks basekit won't screw over killers who don't tunnel because you don't lose anything as a killer if you don't tunnel. if you never tunnel and go for different survivors even if it swap between survivor a and survivor b the whole time these perks will make no difference at all. ds and off the record only work until you perform a conspicuous action and if you want to help your team then you have to perform conspicuous actions. furthermore they are deactivated in the endgame and ds is most likely used beforehand anyways and can only have been used if you as a killer tunneled that person. so it's your own fault. reassurance only works in close proximity to a hook and the survivor running that perk has to stop whatever they are doing to activate this perk on the hook. while you are camping you could have done many other productive things like chasing the other survivors off their generators, regress said generators, protect said generators and if the hooked person gets unhooked you can go back and chase the unhooker instead. after you downed them you can go for the previously hooked person again if you want to. that wouldn't be tunneling and you wouldn't have to deal with off the record or ds, too. kinship works only in struggle phase and only when another survivor is in close proximity to the hook. this perk also only gives you value if the killer is face camping you and that's not something a killer should aim for. if you played the game normally you would always get at least a black pip in a match as killer. if you are face camped 1st hook and die 1st hook as survivor though you will definitely get a depip. if you get tunneled out of the game as the only person being chased you will definitely lose a pip. so how is this fair for this survivor? do you think they have fun dying on 1st hook because nobody can rescue them or because they got tunneled out of the game early on? if you think this is fun then you should play survivor and see for yourself.

getting rid of 4x brand new parts, styptic or syringe wouldn't be a good thing? you complain about gen regression being too low, but the real threat comes from these items actually. if you got a swf team that completes a gen in literally 5 seconds with 4 brand new parts it's no fun as killer. if you have to shred through 4, 5 or even 6 health states as killer it's no fun. if the survivor had mettle of man, syringe + styptic, dead hard, the usual 2 health states and maybe even a well time adrenaline to the end you are screwed for. that's no fun at all and not even nurse or blight can do much about it. they can shred through health states quickly, but if they are hit by all these items, addons and perks there is not much that even they can do. i have seen this in action too many time as killer. so i know what i'm speaking of. it's no fun at all having to deal with this. furthermore balancing killers would be way easier if they had just base addons. you could easily increase the movement speed of a killer, improve their power etc. if no addons are in play. if addons are in play you always have to take these into consideration. if you had a double range nurse you couldn't increase the base range of nurses blinks for example because killers with double range would have a huge advantage. you wouldn't be able to increase the base movement speed of huntress because her iri addon would screw this over. you wouldn't be able to increase the movement speed of plague because her iri addon would screw things over. you can't make myers stronger base because tombstone is in play and if myers was way stronger generally tombstone myers would most likely be much stronger than even nurse or blight. so yes removing addons/items would make balancing waaaaay easier!

so again face camping and tunneling has nothing to do with perks, items or addons. it has to do with how bhvr designed their game initially. if nobody in your team has reassurance or you don't run kinship and you get face camped you can do nothing except for either giving up (dcing), killing yourself on hook or buying your team time to escape while they can do generators. though this is still no pleasant experience for the face camped survivor at all. that's one reason why there are so many dcs nowadays in dbd. in pretty much 9 of my 10 matches while i'm playing either side i see at least 1 dc in the match. is it fun as a killer to wait for 10 to 30 minutes for a match to just see all survivors dc? would that be fun for you as a killer because ultimately survivors should do that if the killer is face camping or tunneling. if all survivors constantly dc'd when a killer face camped or tunneled there would not be a single normal match and you would sit in the queue constantly. is that what you wish for as a killer? is that fun to you?

1. would be possible
2. doesn't do too much most of the time anyways instead of the initial slow down so why not
3. that would probably be way too powerful
4. also probably way too powerful - would mean brining a boon perk would be totally useless and self-care would have to be 100 % self-healing then to make up for it
5. are you joking? dead hard rarely even works in most matches and if you play a certain killer like legion or deathslinger dead hard never even works a single time. furthermore you can't make it a one time use because running exhaustion perks all together would be senseless if they were a one time use. you would have to be limited to one chance of hitting a survivor then. if you miss you have to let them go. that would be ridiculous just like making dh a one time use.
6. i have already suggested that in my first comment
7. kicking all together is already increased by 10 % - so no doesn't have to increased any further
8. that would totally break the game if a killer runs mad grit and/or save the best for last.
9. not a bad thing at all, but would mostly favor the strong killers again anyways
10. that would probably be way to powerful. having to cleanse devour hope 3x or having to deal with 3x haunted ground would be ridiculous. so no that would not be a good thing.

all in all these changes would make killers even stronger, but the perks i have mentioned don't make survivors stronger at all. they just prevent unfair gameplay. if you would improve killers like that you would have to improve survivor perks, too. this would balance out the game. if you made all these changes you would have to make changes to killers, too. for example myers would only be able to tier up once to t3 the whole match or plague only gets one corrupt fountain or oni can only activate his power once per match. as you can see this would be ridiculous, but it would be the same as improving killers even further AND face camping and tunneling would be even easier for killers and that's exactly what this thread should prevent. i don't want killers to be even better at face camping or tunneling, but remove this all together. there should nobody die 1st hook and have to hang on a hook for 3 minutes straight without being able to do anything at all. there should nobody be tunneled right off the hook constantly without the killer going for any other survivor at all. if kicking speed and missed hits would be improved for example it would be a LOT easier for me to tunnel and chase after an unhooked person because i can easily shred through pallets and it doesn't matter if i miss or hit a survivor because i can literally hit them two times at once. that's just stupid!

well 5 seconds or 3 seconds doesn't make a difference. it doesn't matter if a blight or nurse get stunned for 3 or 5 seconds. they will catch up to you within a blink of an eye anyways. so this change means nothing. furthermore what does ds do about camping? when i get face camped 1st hook for 3 minutes straight. what does ds do for me in that situation? for that exact reason and the reason you have mentioned yourself - the fear of being hit by ds - these perks have to become basekit. when unbreakable and mori become basekit nobody will let you bleed out on the floor because everybody could pick themselves up. at the current state you have to make a guess if that person might have unbreakable or not. most killers don't slug even now because of that fear.

when i would have to fear that the 29 seconds a survivor hung there in 1st phase on the hook to then be saved by a reassurance all my camping and the 29 seconds would have been a waste. you can't generate this fear by not having this perk basekit. if i always have to run this perk just to make sure a survivor isn't face camped because most killers are toxic and the devs allow camping i'm wasting a perk slot just to ensure that this is not happening. face camping and tunneling shouldn't have happened to begin with, but happens because there is no valid protection against it.

if every survivor had reassurance and kinship then not a single killer would face camp anymore because it would have been a total waste of time to stand there doing nothing waiting for the survivor to finally die on hook. if ds and off the record were basekit even with just the 3 seconds every killer would at least respect these perk and tunnel less because survivors would have 2 more perks that could help in chase to get away from said tunneling killer like resilience, distortion, windows of opportunity, quick and quiet, light weight etc. all these perks can't be taken if i'm forced to run ds, off the record, reassurance AND kinship just to ensure somebody isn't tunneled nor face camped to death. i wouldn't even be able to run an exhaustion perk to help me in chase if i had to run these four perks to protect myself or my teammates. the 3 seconds from ds and even off the record aren't enough protection.

did you even read your own first sentence for yourself? how can survivors tunnel? survivors aren't chasing the killer nor killing them. do you even understand the concept of this game? so no...tunneling doesn't happen on both sides. it only happens on the killer side because some toxic person decides to go for just one person alone.

i can understand a killer who has to deal with toxic survivors who want to simply annoy the killer and nothing else. tunneling in this case is acceptable in my opinion. you just fight fire with fire or poison with poison. if you tunnel without any reason though that's inacceptable.

you're saying that camping and tunneling has to do with gen progression or regression simply because the killer fears that gens pop quickly one after another, but how can this killer know that? can you look into the future? maybe the survivors you are facing are beginners, inexperienced, badly-coordinated, not a swf or do bad mistakes. how can you know that multiple gens will pop quickly after each other? correct! you can't know that!

if i run corrupt intervention, deadlock and no way out i can delay the game long enough to get at least one kill even against the sweatiest and most toxic swf groups out there in dbd. you can also run an endgame build if you don't want to deal with generators all together. then you can just ignore them and work towards endgame. you will get at least 1 kill and don't have to deal with gens nor have to face camp or tunnel. just by running rancor and noed for example (if you don't play as a one-shot killer) you can simply secure at least one kill at the end of the game. a second kill is pretty likely if you run no way out for example. so what do you care about generators. even if the balance between regression and progression is bad you could still get 1 or 2 kills in a match you are totally screwed over without even having to face camp or tunnel a single time.

these perks (reassurance, kinship, deceisive strike and off the record) are simply there to prevent unfair matches and by unfair matches in this context i mean killers face camping one single survivor or tunneling just one survivor out of the game early on. this player doesn't have fun at all in that match and if you really think you are treated unfair due to way too quick generator repairs then you treat this one survivor exactly the way you feel in that match. how is that fair? do you really think if you treat one single survivor badly you will feel better for being gen rushed? i highly doubt that this is the case!

IF you decide to face camp a single survivor and these survivors don't have reassurance or kinship you will at best get only one kill. how is that a win on your part? standing there face camping one single survivor the whole game makes you feel as if you did something special as if you played very well? if that's good gameplay for you then you really have to switch the game because this is a competitive alike game and standing around doing nothing has nothing to do with being good in that game. it's like somebody would have given you a trophy for 1st place in a marathon even though you didn't even walk 1 meter. do you really think you would have earned that trophy? is that your idea of fairness? i hope not!

you think multiple generators popping at once is unfair and therefore you face camp a survivor, but prove thyself or 4x bnps is okay for you? do you even listen to yourself? the only reason generators pop so rapidly is due to these items and perks! face camping or tunneling one survivor won't slow down this repair progress nor will it give you more kills. the only time you will get more kill than the face camped survivor is when the other survivors try to unhook this camped survivor and end up being slugged and/or hooked, too. if all other 3 survivors did generators while you were busy playing with your balls in front of the hooked survivor then you would never get more than 1 kill especially not if the survivors run reassurance and kinship.

i don't want to be forced to run these perks though just because there some dumb idiots out there who want to ruin the complete gameplay experience of other ppl by simply face camping or tunneling them. it really feels like i'm the only normal person playing this game having the foresight of seeing the crucial problem of this game.

i think you got the situation wrong. the knight was face camping and was just waiting for somebody to get close to first the guard hits them and then the knight himself. this knight has done this multiple time throughout the trial and i know i could trigger the guard, but this knight just constantly refreshed the guard. the more important part of this picture was the range of the guard though. this should symbolize that if a killer was face camping there was no way i could use my reassurance to prevent this face camping without risking do go down as well in the process. the range is way too low and reassurance should be basekit.

besides that otr, ds and dh are needed to protect me from getting tunneled and face camped every game though i still get face camped and tunneled every game despite having these perks. even though i had these perks i died in the end btw. because the killer was...surprise...face camping and tunneling all game long! i have rescued meg in this match btw., but she went down infront of the gate somehow and died. only the jeff could escape in that match. jeff and i were protecting the other survivors constantly and trying to win this match. at least jeff got out of this match...

the fact that i still died, got face camped and tunneled despite having these perks to prevent face camping and tunneling just proves my point that these perks have to be basekit. especially when the next update gets released and dh gets useless combined with longer healing. i generally like the idea of longer healing, but that will also most likely make killers camp and tunnel even more.