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The current low killer FOV and it's reliance on perks to be increased.
I, like many others, have been enjoying Dead by Daylight for many years. However, one glaring issue that I always thought would be resolved is the extremely low default field of view that has always brought me a certain level of discomfort.
When deciding on design choices as a developer myself, I try to weigh the pros and cons that a feature like this would bring to the table. In the past, I have heard the idea that the more narrow field of vision the killer experiences is more of a stylized decision geared towards the idea that the killer is supposed to have this sort of "tunnel vision" effect. Meaning, it hones in on the killer being this bloodthirsty beast focused on the horror-esque idea of nothing but catching its prey.
However, I ask the question of whether this is worth the potential user quality of life or if the potential competitive advantages are enough to draw BHVR away from increasing it. Simply giving the user an editable option to change this beyond the very inconvenient choice of switching out the perks you enjoy running for things like Shadowborn or Monitor and Abuse.
Low FOV in many games has been known to give people headaches and nausea beyond the simple factor that playing on the default vision can give this overall restrictive feeling of not being oriented to the current virtual world around you. This is why the majority of PC games that are released to the public provide the option as a slider inside your graphical menu. In fact, it is almost hard to name a well-established PC-developed title that has not provided this option by default.
Also, the fact remains that the competitive advantages of increased FOV have been weighed for years already, considering many people with this issue have resorted to swapping perks for Shadowborn. It has shown time and time again that it does not provide a significant advantage, and it is a realistic goal for the developers to implement, considering the current implementation of such perks in its current form is not creating game-breaking design flaws such as clipping or a distorted first-person perspective. Or even in Dead by Daylight's case, a significant advantage upon playing tiles with survivors.
Overall, I feel that in this specific case, the user experience very much outweighs any potential benefits that a more restrictive FOV offers. In fact, I believe the current iteration is something people have more so "gotten used to" rather than enjoyed.
Comments
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The limited FOV is definitely an outdated design decision that should be thrown out.
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Agreed, the FOV feels like something that was put in place in the infant years of Dead by Daylight and thus far has been untouched.
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Also blows my mind and annoys me that us who invest in ultra wide monitors can’t use what we invested in ? It makes no sense, their adimant dbd is not competitive so what’s the issue ? Yet survivors can get a whole HUD and gen progress update, is killers can’t get a basic POV. Yet again it feels the devs only care for survivors and the majority and killers are just entertainment or a necessary evil on the side
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But if they make the FOV better, survivors wouldn't be able to FOV tech and 360 and that wouldn't be fun!!!
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Hmm. Interesting. Why is it then blights and oni's that use the perk the most? If I have conditions like this then I don't want to pick killer with highest mobility (aka those that can be spun easiest)?
Admit it. You don't want to be spun or otherwise outplayed.
I can do the same - the game feels really bad when part of my monitor has black areas as survivor. Allow me to change my FOV. I promise it's not meant for me to look above loops to dodge killers better....
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The fact of the matter is that when you use a perk like Shadowborn, there are objectively better perks in the game for your overall competitiveness. People often run these perks for the very purpose of how unenjoyable lower FOVs can be, especially when playing higher mobility killers, thus furthering my point. Of course, there are going to be marginal advantages, as I mention in my post. However, I do not believe they are to the extent that you could call an update to FOV more than a quality of life improvement.
Also, if being "spun" is an issue for you, would you not consider that to be a rather odd issue to have? You only served to prove my point that if someone pressing WASD and spinning in a circle is enough to disorient you, that only reinforces my point of low FOV making it harder to orient yourself within your play space.
Also, trying to compare a third-person FOV increase to a first-person one is an entirely different ball game and does not translate well to first person.
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No. The perk actually disables or makes harder certain things. Spins are just 1 of things (and they are not done only to beginner killers - watch Ayrun for example), but you also have FOV tech, window tech, hiding behind obstacles (one of few counters to Oni) and so on. The effect is by far not marginal. And I know some blight players - the reason they take the perk is not "to feel good".
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You keep calling it "tech" but most of that junk is just really stupid and shouldn't be a part of the game.
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then let's agree to disagree. I find precisely these things a way to express your skill instead of the game being just reflex-check. For exactly the same reason, I am sad to see Billy's ability to go over some obstacles gone.
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So if you believe that the simple factor having a restricted view space is causing and enabling all of these "techs". Is that not a sign that maybe the first iteration of DBD's FOV is a little outdated? I'm not saying we need to give everyone the ability to see 120 degrees. But most of us on this topic I believe would be fine with just a slight tweak for comforts sake.
In fact one of the reasons I'm even making this post is because my girlfriend also plays this game, and during her killer games she can only play for a very limited amount of time before she gets headaches from the "tunnel vision" feeling of the FOV. Besides I assure you a slight bump in FOV would not ruin the majority of techs the community likes anyway.
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It is absolutely dumb that you can "hide" either in front or right next to the killer, within 1 m, simply because you're out of their FoV. Literally standing on their toes, and completely invisible.
360's are equally stupid. You're gaining an advantage by playing a slight of hand trick and vanishing from view, without the use of any obstacles or LoS blockers. It works purely because it disorienting for the killer, making killer gameplay feel even worse.
Many things about DBD's early design are stupid and have been rightfully removed, like hook facecamping, being able to immediately down a survivor when unhooked, and instant flashlight blinds. This is yet another thing that should be shown the bin.
And the thing is, these things don't generally work against the best killers, they work against less experienced killers. They're also used predominantly by SWF and not solos. Removing these would get yet another thing that levels the playing field between SWF and solo.
Is it technically a buff to killer? Of course. Marginally, but it is a buff, because it makes avoiding killers attacks slightly harder for the most skilled survivors. But in light of rebalancing the game, with SWF and solo being brought closer together through solo survivor buffs, it's a buff that needs to happen just as much as those solo survivor buffs need to happen.
87 degrees is ridiculously specific and smaller than any other first person game. Being able to choose between say, 90, 95 and 100 would be more than enough, and still wouldn't be a significant info gain. Killers wouldn't be able to see things they shouldn't, but they wouldn't be disoriented or motion-sick simply by playing the game normally.
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Because blight is disgusting to play without shadowborne once you equip it even once. If you are going against a good blight you may wiggle or spin him once but after regardless of fov it won't work.
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I specifically mentioned limited FOV helps against Blight and Oni - but it sure helps also against spirit, nurse and wesker (just not as much). Are you arguing those are weaker killers? Because it is clearly easier to "hide" from killer that zooms better then from killer that is regular slow M1 killer. So the exact opposite is true - it nerfs strongest killers the most
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I am a blight main, my knowledge on blight far surprises 99% of people in this game easily especially on blight. If I know you are wiggling/spinning, all I have to do is time properly. Oni is the exact same as well. Regardless of how well you spin or wiggle if I react correct with my hitbox near yours I will hit you no matter what. Your statement is based on gameplay of a challenger smurf in gold mmr XD. Ayrun is god tier survivor walking over killer's who trip over their own shoes.
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Sure. Like that P100 Oni.... Which (and I can be wrong this time - might be other P100 killer) was comp player that won many tournies. Total beginner...
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So 90% of killers should put up with disorientation and motion sickness because of a handful of killers that are too strong?
I would gladly see those killers nerfed in exchange for better FoV.
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u know fully well that this thing would not stand. The backlash would be huge - "we nerfed 6 best killers in exchange for making base FOV larger". The complaints would be endless
Anyway - that's not even the point. I am not talking about strength per say. I am talking about reduced options for survivors.
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You had plenty of options before the killer caught up to you though, windows, pallets, hiding, running early and forcing 20+ seconds of pure W holding before the proper chase even starts, etc.
When the killer is within lunge range there is nothing you can do besides trying to disorient them, that is true, but that is because that is also when they are supposed to hit you. And even if you do try said tactics, killers will often not fall for them and you will be hit anyway. So, is keeping this already unreliable option from becoming impossible at worst and weaker at best really worth maintaining the current FOV restriction which is severely discomforting for some and nauseating for others?
Personally, all people that I have met who used Shadowborn used it for comfort, not for the advantage and I doubt that having a Killer FOV slider that goes up to 102 (Current maximum with Shadowborn) would change much.
Then again, BHVR has not added a slider for 6 years and I doubt this will change now.
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Sure. Like dodging Oni's ability all about distance and has nothing to do with (mid-chase) hiding.
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I am afraid I could not comprehend your statement, would you like to elaborate?
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When you play against Oni that has active power - a lot of times best strategy is not to run "to the open" (which in this case is everything that does not provide large enough curve, has no window or pallet) or try to go behind a single tree and so on, but instead hide behind a corner or go into small gap between wall and some obstacle (say tree hugging a wall or rock) and so on. The idea is, that the killer will not notice you immediately and will not have enough time to react before he goes over you - which means he needs to cancel his movement and re-adjust. BUT - if said Oni notices this, then he will just hit with your power resulting in immediate down. So by making FOV larger, and Oni will notice much easier - which takes away one of few options how to counter him when he's in power.
This same thing is true also especially against blight and to a lesser degree against spirit, nurse and wesker (same principle, it's just they can adjust/reorient better - especially spirit).
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I've played Oni for years and almost never have anyway trouble locating someone mid-chase whether I'm using Shadowborn or not in my power. I mean its pretty common sense that if someone LOS's you mid-chase they probably are just around the point they broke sight from considering im going mach 5 and its not like they are going far if im already actively chasing them. I think the mistake a lot of newer oni's make is they don't know when to cancel their dash and just speed around corners and swing like a wild lad. The only killer I could see that could get an actual meaningful advantage is nurse, but that's mainly because of the vignette that is display around your screen after a blink.
I think people massively misjudge how much 102 degrees of FOV in first-person is actually effecting your game-play. They are so many things in this game that are effecting your matches much heavier then FOV. The instances that it does work almost always can be boiled down to some survivor just hugging the killer model, which forgive me for being blunt, it does not sound very "skillful" to me. Which even then does not do much more 90% of the time then just delay you getting hit for a fraction of a second.
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I do not know of any killer where the optimal strategy is to run into the open, also known as a dead zone, unless I misunderstand what kind of open space you refer to. Mid chase hiding is already unreliable, the killer can judge where you should be based on scratch marks, sound cues, your movement speed and where they last saw you.
Optional Shadowborn would not eliminate the option of hiding, only make it somewhat weaker in specific scenarios. Shadowborn would not guarantee that Oni would even be able to hit you considering they have a limited turn radius which varies according to their sensitivity, even if they can turn, they might just miss either way. Shadowborn is 15 degrees, it is roughly 17% wider, it is not that ridiculous of an increase.
So, it would weaken hiding mid chase, but you still have the other options that are more often than not, better than hiding mid-chase: not every loop is unsafe against Oni, windows are still viable and you can still pallet-stun the killer which may even cancel the power, this is hardly being out of options.
Also, most Oni players that I have seen will opt for other perks over Shadowborn, I cannot remember ever seeing a tournament where the Oni had Shadowborn, I do however remember one where both teams' Oni had 3 slowdowns and Bamboozle, a perk that actually completely negates windows when activated. If tournament players whose goal is to achieve the best possible result opt for other perks over Shadowborn, is it not possible that Shadowborn is simply not that good of a perk?
Most tournament Nurses and Spirits and even Blights do not use Shadowborn either.
The point is, Shadowborn likely does not negate as many options nor is as powerful as you are concerned, and other perks or killer powers negate far more than it ever could or just provide a much more tangible impact on the match to the point where Shadowborn or a perk of its ilk is rendered irrelevant. Seriously, aura perks weaken stealth more than Shadowborn ever will. Additionally, the people that do use Shadowborn either always use it on a certain killer or never do as the increase on FOV makes you appear faster and objects to seem further away, causing you to misjudge distance and velocity compared to your old FOV. If any of the players who do not use it tried to, it is probable that they would be adversely impacted rather than positively in the start, this alone will likely make some people maintain the old FOV even if they could make it wider.
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yes. I am not talking about literal deadzone open places of map. I tried to specify what I mean in the bracket (so anything that does not have pallet or very very close window).
As for hiding (and this goes to @AFKbyDaylight ) - u r not trying to loose killer and get out of chase. You just try to waste time to immediately after go back the direction the killer came in. You would be surprised how often these things work (against specifically Oni and Blight at least).
And I am not saying shadowborn is OP. But same as bamboozle - it takes away things survivors can do. And that is fine if it costs you a perk slot (so you can do those things in one game but can't on the other). Problem is if it becomes basekit...
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I understand what you're trying to say, but it just does not work in the current context. Shadowborn does not eliminate Those mid chase strategy's that you are talking about, a 102 degree FOV is not going to stop people from breaking line of sight or positioning themselves in ways to mind game mid-chase against killers like Oni or Blight.
Will it help in some edge cases? Of course, but 102 degrees is within in a VERY standard range for most games in general. It is not going to give you some superhuman insight. There is a reason the #1 thing people complain about when it comes to FOV is the fact that you need a perk to make it standard values. People will still do 360's, LOS, window tech, hiding behind obstacles, they will just have to in some VERY edge cases adapt to how they go about it. I don't really believe that in anyway that would be a bad thing for the potential benefits.
You could add this change into the game the next day and I guarantee you people would still have the options they have today, even if a couple "Techs" become harder to execute is that really a bad thing? Do you really think this game needs to be that streamlined?
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And I am not saying shadowborn is OP. But same as bamboozle - it takes away things survivors can do
I do not think "spin around in circles like idiots" is something survivors should be rewarded for, at all, and I want it gone.
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I am not so sure about that. 102 FOV is a lot
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I disagree, it is a 17% increase. Most games have sliders that up to 100 or much more, I cannot recall the last first person game I played that did not have such a slider, outside of this one, of course.
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I mean it's not like you have have to guess. There are still plenty of shadowborn using players that still get styled on. Look at any blight player that religiously uses Shadowborn every game. I don't see them being immune to any tech you mentioned.
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