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Circle of Healing either needs a total rework or a complete gutting
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Circle of Healing heals you slower than medkits, though. Noticeably slower with a base medkit, and significantly slower with proper speed addons/perks for a medkit.
Circle of Healing doesn't deplete.
It may be slower than medkits, but it's more efficient. CoH does not exist for one survivor, it exists for all of them. It doesn't run out, the only way to stop it is if the killer goes out of their way to spend time and focus snuffing it, and then it can be set back up again anyway. You mention the time it takes to find a totem and bless it but that only counts for one survivor, the other three don't have that time investment and can run to the boon to heal any time they want so long as it's up. CoH doesn't consume resources, it only consumes time, and that time is offset by the efficiency it offers to the whole team. Medkits are fast and self-use, but limited. Teammate heals are unlimited but are slow and occupy two players at once, reducing generator pressure. CoH is kinda slow but only occupies you while everyone else can keep doing their own thing, and you can use it as much as you want until the killer find it -- and if CoH is set up in a corner of the map where all the generators are done, the killer has no reason to go there and would waste very valuable time and pressure if they did.
The self-heal is the biggest problem. It is a team-wide efficiency buff that is very good at undermining a killer's ability to pressure survivors, especially in late-game, and there are few means to counter it effectively, other than just tunneling the survivor with CoH out of the game -- if you can even figure out who it is in the first place.
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Right, but speed clearly matters. Self-Care also doesn't deplete, but if you actually try and use that on its own (at this point even with speed boosts, frankly) you're throwing, because each heal takes an absurd, ridiculous amount of time.
Circle of Healing on its own is a relatively balanced healing speed. It doesn't deplete, but it's slower than having someone else heal you, meaning the time saved by not having to get someone else to heal you is undercut both by the increased time to finish the heal and, as you point out, traversing to a corner of the map where the killer is unlikely to go snuff it out. Obviously it still breaks in your favour, it's a good perk, but it's not overpowered.
The reason I think so many people think otherwise is that nobody does use CoH on its own, they use it with medkits, where the speeds and efficiency get insanely fast. Just nerfing CoH isn't really going to fix the issue of vanishing pressure from super fast heals, because you don't need Circle of Healing to achieve that, there are a few different ways of getting it. Healing speeds as a whole need to be looked at, not one perk that's just kind of "pretty decent" on its own.
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Too bad it's not my eyes, the actual players will think the same. Self-heal is why people run COH, especially with the heal speed gutted. People travel across the map for healing because of self-heal (which is a good subject that jester brought up). COH becomes as bad as the rest of the boons without it.
And you actually think two people will stop doing gens and spend the time to run to a nerfed COH, even with heal speed buffed... you definitely shouldn't have a say in DBD's balance.
See, what will ACTUALLY happen, is that people will not run COH anymore because it's not efficient time-wise. Better to just run a different meta perk instead, because now those will be more worth it than COH. And then you'll complain about those next.
You just want to play hit and run killers with a hit and run strategy and never deviate from that in matches, don't you? You never want to chase further for a down, you want to camp gens and only get downs if someone is already injured. You can't play killers like Wraith differently, it's why you're fine with medkits and Inner Healing (because as you said, those run out), and okay with Self-Care because it wastes a huge amount of time + newbie trap. You want low-effort pressure to easily stay for a long time and it shows.
Two perk slots also isn't worth that, sorry. Maybe out of niche builds, but that will not be meta, and the top 0.1% you think you face will just switch to the next best thing... which you'll then focus on next.
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Haven't we reached the point where the balancing around those official stats is the reason why we have so many balance issues in the first place?
When it comes to perk selection, survivors still have much more to choose from. Killers either stick to meta or purely rely on luck.
Typical BHVR balancing. Gut the perk's real value and give nothing back or an effect that isn't even required.
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I think we just disagree on how strong being self-reliant is in this game. Self-Care had to smashed down from 50% heal speed to 35% heal speed and have its medkit buff removed to get people to stop using it. But Circle of Healing still existed, which does almost exactly what old Self-Care did but way better, so now everyone uses that instead. Medkits are the strongest items survivors can bring. Good players use all these things because they understand that two survivors healing is a bigger hit to team efficiency than just one survivor healing.
you definitely shouldn't have a say in DBD's balance.
Same to you.
You just want to play hit and run killers with a hit and run strategy and never deviate from that in matches, don't you? You never want to chase further for a down, you want to camp gens and only get downs if someone is already injured. You can't play killers like Wraith differently, it's why you're fine with medkits and Inner Healing (because as you said, those run out), and okay with Self-Care because it wastes a huge amount of time + newbie trap. You want low-effort pressure to easily stay for a long time and it shows.
You sure are presumptuous. Is that the only way you can argue, making up conclusions about people so you can attack them? Have fun punching that strawman you built, because talking to you is a waste of time.
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You are aware that I said I moved to PC, right? I haven't stopped playing DBD. Or Killer.
Here's the proof, for anyone who is interested.
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I guess it is true what they say, some people never learn I guess.
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To be fair, using Self-Care on its own even prior to 6.1 was still throwing, that speed - even though it's faster than now - was still too slow to be viable. To this day I have no idea why it retains such a high pickrate. Noob trap, maybe?
Being self-reliant is extremely strong, but again, there's a limit- that's the point of bringing up Self-Care. Sure, that's technically self reliant in that it unlocks the self-heal ability... but you're not getting any value from that self-reliance because you're wasting considerably more time than would've been spent healing you. Now, CoH doesn't reach that level because it's not trash, but it does undercut how much value you get out of being self-reliant because it makes you do those actions slower.
You're right that medkits are the strongest item survivors can bring, but that's not just because they heal you. It's because there's no penalty to healing yourself, and in fact, it's often faster than a teammate healing you. Medkits are busted right now, as are a few other elements of fast self-healing, but the whole mechanic needs careful adjustments, not nerfing one of the middling elements of a good healing build.
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Self-Care is definitely a noob trap right now. The only use I can imagine for it is as a back-up heal for when your teammates or medkit heals get interrupted and you're left running around with only a partial heal. In that scenario, Self-Care could be useful to finish the rest of the heal and get you on your way. But that is definitely circumstantial, and using Self-Care to heal from 0% to 100% is a terrible idea that new players are unaware of.
Medkits, yeah, probably busted. I don't have any ideas on how to fix those. The only solace is that they are limited (but then just run Built to Last lmao). Still, if everyone is using medkits to heal injuries all throughout the match, there's a good chance they'll be depleted by the end of the match. Circle of Healing's greatest strength lies at the end of the match, because it can't be depleted and there's a lot of safe areas in the map due to most of the generators being complete and the killer likely focused on guarding the remainder. Any time someone gets hit, they can run off, heal, and get back to the generators. They can do this forever if the killer has to focus more on gen defense than getting downs to stay in the game.
The way I see it, CoH lets survivors snowball endgame with relentless gen pressure at minimal cost and risk.
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This post is right on the money, that perks needs to end, combined with Dead hard and other chase perks it essentially mean you are not downing a survivor ever because all they have to do is mindlessly run to a totem they know full well you can't pressure because their 2-3 other teamate are just holding the gen hostage like a bunch of bloodsucker on your legs.
there is no counter play for killer. Remove the self healf from CoH and I guarantee that the 3 gen meta will cease right there and there, either survivors will commit to a gen and win or they'll lose, end of story.
It's not the Knight or Skull merchant that are to blame, its this crazy meta of Dead hard with CoH combined with the huge and safe maps that drags games far longer than it should.
the least they could do is revert the nerf fiesta they did on killers and give us back eruptions and Hex:ruin, at least we had some plays with those perks.
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Funny aside: DBDmobile has Yoichi, but not Mikaela or Jonah, meaning the only boon there is Dark Theory. What a strange world.
Anyway, COH could revert its bonus value back to 90% if the self-healing aspect is cut. It would become a better Botany Knowledge for the low price of placing a boon and moving to its area. To me, it would brings its value to the same level as the other boons.
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So ONE match and you wanna debff CoH? SMH.
If over 40% of your matches were THAT, I can understand but ONE match?
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I can understand the frustration of CoH brings agaisnt killers; but I for one, don't think Shattered Hope as Basekit gameplay mechanic will do anything about it. It indirectly nerfs every mediocre Boon perks to being worthless, and it doesn't address the key issues that CoH has that the other boon perks lack.
1.) Benfits are far beneficial, outside the Killer's patrol and terror radius! The majority of all boon perks need to be mindful place specific near the action/chase of the killer to get some value out of it. Being able to have unbreakable with Exponential when down, being able to run faster in chase with Dark Theory, being able to escape chase and hide your scratch mark; all these boons only work effectively when the killer is in close proximity of the Boons; meanwhile... CoH is far different then every boon; because it work well in almost any situation, especially when it not within earshot of the killer or in the corner of the map beyond the Killer's patrol. Basically, it it is no risk and high reward Boon perk, while every other boon perks needs to be close to the killer in order to get value.
2nd: The benefits are far more perfect in every scenario, agaisnt any killer; except maybe Plague and Legion. Every other Boon perks requires very specific scenarios and can occasionally work when played right; but more often then not; it is never worth the time investment to boon any of those perks as the value from them are not good enough, over what CoH can do.
Expocitenal only works if the killer is slugging and doesn't notice the boon nearby; more often then not will snuff it, thinking it is CoH just of the insane healing value it can brings to teammates in picking up their fallen teammates from the ground faster.
Shadow Step is only good agaisnt specific Killer's that relies on detection, aura reading, and tracking perks/powers like Huntress, Nurse, Wraith with that All Seeing Addon, Pig with that Other aura reading addon while crouch, etc. But, a very experienced killer with good instinct calls and read on Survivors movement can make a educated guess on where Survivors ran to and where they could of hide to find the Survivors. Not all Killer's need scratch marks, or aura reading yo find Survivors; it doesn't hide injured bleeding trails nor the sounds of footsteps or breathing Survivors could make, especially injured.
Meanwhile..... CoH has everything perfect about it. It is the perfect Solo Healing Perk, that can be used infinite amount of times after blessing it, it pairs well with medkits and other healing Perk builds. It is the perfect team healing perk, that literally could outshines we make it when within range of the boom. If the killer snuffs it without Shattered Hope (which I see no one ever run that perk for a while); it has no real downside nor counter play by the killer; besides the killer straight up tunneling and camping the Survivors running it; but it wouldn't stop another survivor from bringing another over any other healing Perk option. It is far superior better then Self-Care, as that perk was gutted from mediocre weak to being completely useless now; with no healing penalty. It better then Inner Healing as that perk only has 5 uses, while this perk has infinite when undisturbed. It is the perfect solo/teammates healing Perk in the game PERIOD, that can be stacked with Medkits and synergies with every healing Perk to be far stronger. And can be place beyond the Killer's patrol, to create another hidden benefit. It creates what I called a "6th Generator", by placing a CoH far beyond the map, this one boon perk will become such a problematic perk when it comes to holding a strong 3 gen scenario by the Killer's hands without perks. The Killer would need to go out their way to literally leave the 3 gen and risk some valuable time in letting the other Survivors go knock up a gen while they need to snuff the totem; but if they refuse to snuff it; the Survivors will constantly keep on Healing insane fast and coming back like literally Cockroaches and be somewhat invincible. They can literally body blocking more often, they can go for saves more frequently, and make the killer waste so much effort and precious time in losing any form of map pressure
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