Actual state of the game is awful...
Awful meta...
TUNNELING ISSUE:
Tunneling has become really good strategy to win every single game. You had been hanged finally had got unhooked and... hooked again until you are dead. This makes game unfun for survivors and playing without one of them when 3 gens are left is insanely difficult...
SLOWDOWN ISSUE:
Right now most killers are running 4 slowdown perks such as CoB, Surge, etc. Playing against Eruption before the nerf was so frustrating so thanks to the God BHVR has decided to nerf it but still slowdown perks are top tier and taking 4 make survivors bored to death...
TAKING GAME HOSTAGE ISSUE:
No need to talk about this... still not fixed
SO WHY DO KILLERS TUNNEL ?
It is so hard to keep up with 4 survivors cause currently they can be a little too efficient. Even taking 4 medkits, each granting 2 heals, makes the game totally survivor sided. Each team takes CoH which additionaly grants infinite medkit. It is true that DH is most picked perk in the whole entire game - stats say it has over 30% pick rate but at high level you can see 2+ ( it can considerably increase time it takes to catch survivor or even forces you to leave them when they get to a really strong loop ). It seems like tunneling is the best option to get rid of 1 survivor and as a result it allows you to keep other 3 under control.
WHY DO KILLERS TAKE SO MUCH SLOWDOWN ?
Every single time I try to do some fun build taking meme perks like Furitive, game ends like in about 3 or 4 minutes cause survivors usually take some rushing perks like prove thyself or toolboxes with Brand New Parts. Survivors are not willing to be tunneled so they want to do gens as quick as possible. Additionaly Hex totems are a lot weaker and nerfing NOED as the consequence made survivors meh about doing bones.
BOTH SIDES ARE UNHAPPY
Killers should be encouraged to run other perks than slowdown so maybe BHVR should rework useless perks granting them brand new effects. Survivors should be less efficient with healing so killers would be happy by spreading real pressure with hits. Maybe this will help killers so they can take other perks and adjust their playstyle.
Comments
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I honestly doubt this is very much due to the current mechanics of the game and more that this game has been out for nearly 7 years and everyone at the higher end of play is trying to play optimally.
This isn't a unique phenomenon to DBD; all games become stale when the players optimize, because often there is only one optimal way to play. This makes every match identical.
The solution is to frustrate the optimization process by constantly changing the tools and mechanics that emerge as the most optimal.
BHVR doesn't seem interested in doing this, though. The only significant perk shake-up they had (6.1.0) displaced a few meta perks permanently (pop, ruin, etc.) but others only temporarily (e.g. DH was absent from most matches until survivors realized it was still broken and now we're back to 3-4 a match). This shake-up was successful in the short term but it wasn't followed up quickly enough with another shake-up when the new meta became apparent.
There needs to be a shake-up probably every 3 months at a minimum or the game becomes stale.
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My advice to you is if you’re getting tunnelled every game, it may be time to run some anti-tunnelling builds, at least for a while. Think borrowed time, DS, Off the Record etc. Should you have to do this? No, of course not, but if you’re feeling this frustrated then I recommend it. I haven’t personally experienced an abnormal amount of tunnelling
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although it is super hard to avoid tunneling if killer's playstyle is that
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I can totally agree, they should shake meta more frequently although it is important to keep up with balancing by releasing short patch every 2 weeks slightly changing op things and buffing weaker ones
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Oh boy, a meta shake up every 3 months ... with a company that balances it's game also only every 3 months? 😂😂😂
Other live service pvp games have 6-12 month seasons before a shake up but also biweekly balancing.
This would never work with DBD in it's current form and the current methods the devs have used.
It was already a miracle that skull merchants release didn't break something else like it happened with the last 5-10 killers.
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Killers tunnel because they literally have no choice most of the time. Their objective is too long relative to the survivor objective and an efficient team can trade 5 hooks for 5 generators and then get all four players to escape.
If you want to stop tunneling then you need to change the game for both sides.
- Give the killer generator tunneling protection. Survivors got free Borrowed time. Give killers Deadlock base kit. Add rollback protection so that if two gens are compelted at the same time then one rolls back to 99% progress and is blocked. Make the perk by the same name add +30 seconds to the timer.
- Give the killer 1:1 generator regression base kit if 4 players are alive. Now the killer has a reason not to tunnel
- Give the killer buffs for hooking each unique player once before anyone dies. As an example this needs to be something like a 9% debuff to the survivors finishing generators/healing/etc. Why is that value at 9%? At 8% it's less efficient than hooking one player 3 times to kill them. That by the way causes generator repair rates to decrease permanently by 25% for the rest of the game.
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Sid Meiers has an awesome quote on this situation.
“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game”; therefore, “One of the responsibilities of designers is to protect the player from themselves.”
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This game is in a terrible state, but I have no others games I am interested in playing. Cant wait for D4. I miss when WOW was good.
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I agree, sadly.
As killer, I don't tunnel and I get absolutely destroyed in like 5 minutes game after game after game and it's demoralizing. I don't understand why I keep facing these solid teams when I only get 0-1 kill every game.
As survivor, I face killers that do tunnel and the games are absolutely miserable as well.
I don't have fun on either side. :(
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It is 100% true, when you want to have fun you are genrushed
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Vote for that, decent changes and BT for survivors base kit would be great. This endurance should last for 10 seconds and BT should maybe increase it's duration and give some 1% Haste for saved surv for 5 seconds ?
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Oh, absolutely, I have zero faith that BHVR could actually pull it off.
But it's what is needed.
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But this will create its own set of problems.
First, Giving more gen time in favour of the killer could stop tunneling for some killers but if you dont actually give some restriction to tunneling as a strat then everyone will switch back to tunnel as soon as anything goes wrong in a match. This was what happened when BHVR gave 90sec gens, most killers used this new time to tunnel with less risk.
Second, if BHVR were to put the 9% debuff per hook, then they would need to heavily rework every perk that gives any kind of slowdown. 9% x4 for a 36% debuff at 4 hooks means you are getting a full stack pre nerf thana effect for only 3 hooks.
36% + current thana: 56%
36% + 1-stack pentimento : 66%
36% + gift of pain: 52%
we are looking at Forever Freddy's type of game with a lot of builds.
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And when you figure "eff this" and go in hard, then you realise you gave a group of rookies a zero-fun game.
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Sometimes i feel like i am the only person that is ok with the state of the game.
Like, for me it feels fine most of the time
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Same here albeit I solely play killer, but right now I'm doing a no perk run for the rest of the month, it puts my skills to the max and makes me better. As far as tunneling goes, I personally will only tunnel someone if i have no hooks at 3 gens because by 2 gens your done tunneling or not. It's almost always the strongest looper to give the rest of the team a better chance. I get tunneling isn't fun but in a game where each side wants to win, they are gonna do whatever it takes to do so. Some games are gonna be fun others not so much, there's no utopia in competitive games, ones pain is another's pleasure and that's just the hard truth.
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The game has been out for years. The perk shake up changes arent frequent enough. The game has been optimized the hell of out if by both sides. The dev's wanted more kills over hooks. 12 Hooks isnt realistic vs good/efficient survivors. MMR made the game like it was an e-sport but only a really small community cares about competitive. Last 2 killers design were really bad 1 decent perk that will be probably nerfed out of 6 in 6 months. Massive security issue that has been for years that still havent been fixed
This is the direction dev's have been taking the game to. Pray to whatever gods you believe for the anniversary patch because pretty sure the game can't handle more bad decisions.. after sadako the game has been on a steady decline at least on steam.
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Yeah, i just have this rule when playing killer, when there are only 2 gens to be done, i need to kill a survivor. Before that i will just play normally. But if survivors do something stupid like unhooking right in my face and then leaving that person or trying to take a hit with BT, like you asked for it. I don't have an obligation to play nice, i will because it makes games enjoyable, but i am not going to play dumb or with some sort of moral code.
And honestly because i play killer and know the things you have to do in order to win. I also don't get bothered as much while playing survivor about tunneling and camping, like yeah it's annoying when they do it at 5 gens, but besides that it really doesn't bother me that much nowadays.
3 gen strats do annoy me tho. I would prefer getting stomped in 5 min by a nurse or blight rather then playing a 30 min game against Knight or SM
Killer, the only thing that annoys me is going into a bad map like garden of joy and having a group of survivors BM me at the end, like you already have all the advantages here, what more do you want?
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One survivor got killed because he got tunneled out of the game and 3 gens still left? What were the other survivors doing?
On my case, i start the game with 4 gens when i catch the first survivor, if the chase was fast and smooth. If he got to a strong loop i can start the game with 3 gens already (and most of people seems to agree that losing 1 or even 2 gens on first chase is "normal").
So, i don't really get the "tunnel at 5 gens best strat" thing? You camp and tunnel first survivor? Okay, the other survivors just slap gens. Game ends with 1k and 3 escapes.
Is that the "best" strat?
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-"First, Giving more gen time in favour of the killer could stop tunneling for some killers but if you dont actually give some restriction to tunneling as a strat then everyone will switch back to tunnel as soon as anything goes wrong in a match."
A killer that hooks everyone once and then hooks the next person twice still gave everyone quite a bit of gameplay. Otherwise it's see a jake hook jake 3 times. Who is next?
-"if BHVR were to put the 9% debuff per hook, then they would need to heavily rework every perk that gives any kind of slowdown. 9% x4 for a 36% debuff at 4 hooks means you are getting a full stack pre nerf thana effect for only 3 hooks."
Or we could address the core gameplay that lets survivors get 3 gens with one hook state. It's totally fine according to some of the devs to lose 3 gens in the first chase (hint : it's not). Thana is trash 99% of the time. The perk you wanna watch out for might surprise you : Dying Light.
Now granted this perk needs a rework. Remove all the parts about buffing survivors. Change the perk to have nothing dealing with the Obsession instead read - you get a stack as long as you hook someone different each hook.
Imagine if this perk said : you get a token as long as the last person you hooked was not the same as the person you hooked before that.
That would allow you to get 12% per hook for the first few hooks. DL doesn't work typically because the game is over by the time you build to ~24% debuff.
-"we are looking at Forever Freddy's type of game with a lot of builds."
It's either slow the gens down base kit or reward the killer for not tunneling. There is no reward for not tunneling so people wont do that. Would you rather 4 people have been alive for a while or the killer makes the game 3v1 asap?
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-"i don't really get the "tunnel at 5 gens best strat" thing? You camp and tunnel first survivor? Okay, the other survivors just slap gens."
And what happens if I down your friend inside my 3 gen and they are on the hook in the middle of it. You blast 3 gens that I don't care about and i get to kill your friend. You dont get to touch the 3 gens that matter to end the game. You don't get to rescue your friend. That means the situation is worse when I hook or slug the next person and do the same thing all over again.
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But that's about the "3 gen" scenario right? I was answering to the one who was saying "tunnel at 5 gens".
But anyways, i also have some doubts about the "3 gen" scenario. What makes it difficult to break? I know Knight and SM are the ones actually really good at mantaining 3 gens, but i see that people also bash CoB and Overcharge, but in reallity what makes them so strong in 3 gen scenario?
You can have 3 people repairing, one on each gen (im talking with 3 survivors, because lets be honest, with 2 survivors even if its not a 3 gen its really difficult to escape), what can the killer do on those situation?
Goes to a gen (other 2 are being repaired), the survivor leaves the gen, the killer kicks it, then the killer has two options: chase the survivor or leave and go into another gen.
If he chases, the other two are being repaired.
If he leaves to another gen, the survivor just goes back to the gen and keeps repairing. It would have not reverted much, the baseline 2.5% and maybe a little more for 1 or 2 seconds with CoB + OC combo, then repeat again.
On which non Knight and SM cases are difficult to break the 3 gen?
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If you're unhappy about gen rushing, just take rancor :)
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This is why rancor is superior to all other perks
Idc if I lose, you still get to watch the mori :)
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This game is getting boring as hell. Been playing less and less each day. Thank God I have other games I focus on instead of this crap.
I will give them props for the upcoming bloodweb fixes but come on, FIX THE DAMN GAME ITSELF.
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You assume that survivors can teleport to/from gen. If gens are close (think saloon) - killer has MUCH shorter walking distance then survivors (if they don't want to give him hit in literal 2s). So it means survivors need to sometimes leave the gen even if killer is not going directly to their generator. If they don't, it's ~30+s for single survivor healing (5s going to boon, 21s heal, 5s going back and this is still like super optimistic scenario for boons - if you place boon closer, killer can stomp it and distract ppl from doing it resulting in even much longer wasted time. If you don't have CoH, wasted time will be even much longer).
So overall the problem is the combination of strong perks, very close 3gens (especially on some maps) and a lot of killer powers (mobility or slowdown).
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But if the problem is that the killer is never going to commit to a chase (which everyone seems to agree here), you dont need to leave the gen if the killer does not go directly into the generator, you can wait a bit, as you know that at the moment he kicks the gen he is not going to chase you.
Also, again if he is not going to commit, why lose time healing? Isnt better to just keep repairing the gens? Healing is not going to help you if the killer is not going to chase you anyways.
I get that 3 gens can be frustrating on certain specific scenarios, but people seems to say that it has zero counters and on my experience, is not so "uncounterable" as people make it to be, as long as people just keep trying to repair the gens and mantaining some distance when killer comes to a gen, without leaving it far if the killer does not chase so they can be back to the gen quickly.
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So you wait there for first hit to be able to heal for long? Briliant. You just reduced your efficiency even more and allowed the killer to regress your meager progress you've done so far.
Please try to play survivor at least a little bit. You would see the issue immediately.
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D-did you just reply the same non-sense on both topics on me? I kinda feel honored...
And i talk about the "you dont play survivor a little bit". Like, i didn't know you have an actual control on my survivor hours.
Im not a 4k or 5k hour monster like some people here are, i have 2k hours on DbD and of course i don't know at 100% how much are killer hours and how much are survivor hours. I would say about 800~ hours are survivor, i think i play a little bit more of a killer.
But it's fine for me. If you have to throw the "you dont play X at all!!!!" argument, that pretty much sums everything. Lets agree to disagree on this topic and move on.
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