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The update
I’ll start this bluntly. The upcoming update is literally the worst I’ve seen in a while. Most of my family plays dead by daylight and we all unanimously agree (even the killer mains) that this update is terrible. Survivor is going to be boring and pointless, and I’m predicting for there to be a humongous drop in players after this goes live. I’ve always been a large defender of this game because I love it. Yet after hearing what you guys are going to do with it, I don’t think I’ll be able to keep playing. The progression of making this game achieve greatness is going further and further back. Not in steps, but large jumps.
Edit: I’ve already said this in the comments but I’ll say it here so people see it. After reading all of the comments my opinion on it has changed. Yet, the COH nerf still makes zero sense to me. It was fine. Sure it sucked for killers, but unlike what many are saying it isn’t “uncounterable”. I still believe that the flashlights didn’t need an update. Billy nerf? Just why? Who asked for this?
Comments
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Have you seen skull merchant update?
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Yeah, and it sucks. It made skull merchant unplayable to play against.
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One of the best mid chapters we've ever had.
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Do whatever you want, but don't you think you should at least play a few games after the update before coming to any conclusions? Honestly, I'm not particularly looking forward to this update, especially when playing as a survivor but I'll at least try it before passing judgement.
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Survivors wanted a chase meta, but a chase meta can't work when healing is as powerful as it currently is. Healing needed to be kicked down a peg. Not just COH, which is getting the change it should have launched with, but healing as a whole.
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Jesus man, y’all can’t even let an update go through the PTB before complaining and going nuts. Just give it a chance.
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As killer? Sure, I'll play. I'll probably be disappointed at how easy it is, but I'll definitely give it a shot. Maybe I'll be wrong.
As Survivor though? Nah. Pretty much all of those changes massacre solo q players.
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The anniversary chapter will still bring players back especially if licensed so this perceived “drop” in players will go unnoticed for a few months before the meta perks at that point in time get nerfed again.
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I'm gone for 2 weeks and miss BHVR shitting the bed? Looks like I got some reading to catch up on.
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Literally anything that affects swf will massacre solo q players no matter what, those reasoning seems to be pointless.
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Im right there with you.
The coming update is completely hot garbage. These decisions make no sense to the playerbase and the devs, as usual, refuse to take the L for when they make a bad decision.
Nerfing Billy - Who exactly asked for this? The Overheat mechanic is ludicrous and no one likes it. But you're going to nerf his add-ons, the VERY thing people use to have fun with him? Some milquetoast, khaki pants wearing pencil pusher who unironically enjoys NFTs probably read a spreadsheet and made this insipid decision.
Healing nerfs are only going to make SoloQ even harder for casual players: the Circle of Healing Nerf makes 0 sense in the end, but, please refer to the description above.
Scourge? Why even have it at this point?
Deadhard's nerf is AGAIN only going to encourage tunneling, the developers favorite strategy (that everyone basically hates or at best tolerates.)
Oni's add-ons, which no one uses, were touched. Why? Who asked? No one did.
Incentivized MORE camping/tunneling to the point it's just boring.
What's that? No new mechanics? No new THINGS to do? Sure sounds to me like they just desperately needed to punctuate the pipeline with a "look, we're doing stuff," update. Honestly, I'm beginning to really think it is just leadership in the team as to why things are going south so continuously. Where are the community manager's taking notes? Where are any of them?
Just hiding behind desks, not interacting with the community. What's the point of being a developer/manager if you don't do any of these things in a meaningful way?
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survivors wanted three gens to be less powerful and the dev gave them what they wanna. Nerf all gen regression
Killers been asking for medkits to be look at and DH to be nerf. The devs pretty much did that.
I think the devs did a pretty good job this patch beside two things. nerfing billy and altruism healing. Hopefully the ptb take care of that
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Everything about the upcoming patch is fine except for the nerf to base healing. I hope they come to their senses and leave base healing alone.
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I love how every patch is the worst patch ever. Comic Book Guy would be proud.
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If they revert all of the gen regression perk nerfs, I would be fine with this.
You can't give survivors faster gens without making them slower at something else, unless you just want to be able to gen rush and 4-out every match.
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- Not all of these changes will make it to live as is; some will be toned down
- This update hits both sides equally hard. It's a rare update in that way.
The only thing I see and really just hate it on its face is what they're doing to Billy.
People are funny; they want change, but they don't want to change.
Not saying I'm in love with all these changes, but any moves that are going to spur actual change aren't going to feel great at first. That's how life works.
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I honestly don’t mind many of the more recent updates?
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I didn’t mind three gens as they were. Most of the time its the survivors fault it even happened. The only update with killer perks i feel were necessary was a slight nerf to scourge. They even over nerfed that.
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So we just let it go live and then hate on it? Why not try to prevent it before it becomes a problem?
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Yeah that's part of why I like it, it's going to shuffle the meta up a lot.
I also really like that they're trying to move the game slow down into base kit in the form of split pressure and injuring survivors rather than in the form of stacking gen slow down perks. I'm excited to see where this goes even if I do think it's still missing a few pieces.
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Ok but why? Other than the base kit heal nerf I have no idea what could make you drop this game.
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Dead hard didn’t need another nerf. Killer mains complained it used no skill. They then fixed it to where it needs skill and people complain.
Healing takes a 3rd as long as a gen? Might as well stay half dead the whole game.
Circle of healing? Hopefully you brought a medkit or your teammates actually do teamwork.
Pain res is practically useless at this point.
A thing that has always been in the game and is simply counterable by a single perk is getting removed.
Who asked for the billy nerf? The devs 100% only read like one thing that complained about Billy and decided to nerf him.
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Ok you got me on billy nerf.
But CoH is currently an extremely busted and uncounterable perk. The perk can simply never be balanced in it's current state, whether that is a bad or op perk.
DH is simply just awful design due to the nature of it. I can counter it 90% of the time but playing around it is so tedious and boring. It's really not the skillful imo but I play blight and come from lol so I understand if other people think dh is skillful when it's really not. I guess if you have only ever mained dbd you might think it's really skillful. DH can be skillful but I have seen less than 5 amazing dh's since 6.1.0 and I watch a lot of dbd content and include my own killer game play in that. I don't even think dh is op, I just think waiting it out breaks the flow of the game especially after the 10000th time.
Killer: "DH?" *bored expression on streamers face*
Survivor: Presses e
Killers: "DH" *streamer continues to have bored expression on their face*
Wow, such intense gameplay this perk creates!
It's not even killer mains, it's everyone having this interaction.
I would rather see a survivor outplay me at a tile 9 times out of 10 than play worse at the tile to try and get their e off. It's simply awful design at it's core.
Meta changes in any video game are not simply just nerfing op things and buffing weak things, it's about changing what is played every game. I haven't even touched killer in a couple months due to survivors running the exact same build every game yet again.
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I had my doubts at first but the more i think about it the more i think this is the best update we will have in years.
Shiften the power to slow the game down from perks to heal speeds that is in the base game means killers will finally be able to play without gen defence perks and not feel handicapped
This basekit slowdown also only applies if you actually spread injuries. For tunnelers the game will be harder cause they won't have as strong gen perks to back it up. Meaning tunneling might very well not be the optimal way to play anymore
This update is exactly what the community asked for but they are to blind to see it
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While I'm happy a chase meta is being encouraged, I don't think solo q will survive the changes. Even if toned down.
Legions will just run SF+enduring builds and mow them down.
Both sides recovering ground either with gen regression or healing was adding another 5-7 minutes to a match. Glad things won't get drawn out but CoH was the only thing holding solo q since keys got destroyed and most good survivor perks got trashed on.
It's much easier for a killer to apply pressure then survivors to recover. Now one minor mess up in solo q and that's game.
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The argument here is that you should maybe try these changes on the ptb before concluding that this update will be terrible. Of course having an early opinion on this update is understandable.
If we don't see any additional changes, then you might be right with the loss of players. Only might. But BHVR can easily fix that.
They need to nerf mangled and other anti-healing effects, and nerf camping. Then things will look really good. The direction BHVR is going with this game is a great one. Reward killers more for playing well and going for chases, but nerf their strongest regression perks that make gens take forever.
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Please remember this is a PTB not a confirmed release...these proposed changes need to be tested on the PTB before being put Live, it's not set in stone.
Please test the PTB when it comes out this week (not out today), and then give us your feedback based.
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I just want Eyrie of Crows gone
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"A thing that has always been in the game and is simply counterable by a single perk is getting removed."
What is this referring too?
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Light born and Wraith/nurse burning I think. And maybe the Hag traps with flashlights. But probably the former.
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Oh ok thanks.
Although lightborn doesn't stop Wraith burning.
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It doesn't? Oh wow poor Wraith lol. The above was a guess, but its what i thought.
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Oh, that was a misunderstanding on my part. I thought it did. Good to know cause I wanted to switch to wraith soon lol
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i am curious how exactly these changes massacre solos? Because the only change I can see that is really bad for solo is the CoH nerf, which is completely unnecessary in my opinion. Every other change affects swf more.
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The negative point are they are killing what little fun remained on Billy and they are putting Hag in an even worse position she was already (against players who know how to verse her).
Kicking the two currently most OP perks is kind of what they've done for the last few months (this time for survivors) and I'm more curious about what the new META will be after this.
My biggest fear is a push toward more tunnelling (gen speed) but even if it becomes even more necessary, it will not be worse (it has already passed the threshold of anti-fun a couple of months ago)
We'll know in a few minutes.
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Wow... they actually made healing take longer after making Gens take longer.... Now all we need is Hook timers to be extended
But then the base Healing time is the only thing that could've been changed... we'll see if they realize that
The addon changes also don't make much sense... but who am I in the first place
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I think hook timers should be increased for sure at this point, but these changes for healing are a step in the right direction.
Generators simply, Go. Too. Fast. in high level play. It is plain and simple. But the problem is, they go too slow in low level play. So we can't just increase the time it takes to repair gens. What needs to be done is to increase the power of spreading pressure and give more ways for killers to get survivors off of generators.
That is precisely what this update is doing. Once we have a viable method of getting survivors off of generators, THEN you can probably go and decrease gens, maybe even so far as lowering them to less than what they were before. 70-75 second gen maybe? Would probably need to come with a nerf to gen perks/toolboxes and other things.
But the point still stands. We are entering a world where BHVR is finally attempting to make it so killers don't HAVE to run gen defense in order to slow the game down. Meanwhile we can start working toward making it so survivors don't HAVE to run gen progression perks to speed the game up.
Its going to be a rough few patches (for both sides) but this is finally a step in the right direction, and shows that BHVR actually understands the game finally.
I suspect the end result of this will be:
- Self healing is nerfed
- Altrusitic healing stays the same as it is now
- CoH stays nerfed
- DH stays nerfed
- Gen speed perks like resilience are nerfed
- Gen repair times reduced to some amount below 80 seconds
- Some kind of nerf to toolboxes/BNP in relation to new gen times.
- Some form of thana or (survivors are worse in some way when injured) becomes basekit. along with probably a rework to thana
- Some form of mini corrupt (maybe corrupt reworked and a 15-30 second corrupt made basekit)
- Giant ass maps like mother's dwelling are reduced in size
- Maps that spawn guaranteed 3 gens are dealt with.
- Hook timers are increased (nerf to camping)
- Tunneling is dealt with naturally by making gens faster and making injuring survivors more important (spread the pressure)
- Probably a rework of the mangled status effect.
- Basekit unbreakable/mori they announced
- Buffs/reworks to killers that really need it
- Nerfs/reworks to killers that really need it
- And to top it all off, we start selling moris as cosmetics.
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Hey they still have the almost universally disliked basekit unbreakable and finisher mori card in their back pocket. I'm sure that will go down just as well...
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SWF: "I could use a heal." "Ok, I'm about to finish the gen clockwise from shack, I'll heal you up and we can finish it together."
Solo survivor A: wanders around the map for 45 seconds before finding someone to heal them. Forgot to equip bond in the lobby.
Solo survivor B: brought self care and wastes 60 seconds healing with sloppy, is interrupted by the killer and loses all progress instantly.
Solo survivor C: boons a totem with circle of healing. Stands still spamming crouch, doing nothing, until someone leaves what they're doing to cross the map and heal them in the boon.
Solo survivor D: plans to just stay injured and work on gens, but can't communicate this to the others mid game. Their teammate follows them around with the intent to heal, but not accomplishing anything useful because they're annoyed 'the other guy isn't letting them heal'. The teammate throws a pallet and vaults it until survivor D allows them to finally heal them, deleting their resilience buff.
SWF impact is the extra 8 seconds of healing. Solo impact is magnified tremendously by the fact that you can't coordinate with your teammates, and everyone has a different plan most of the time.
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That's a part of my point though....
If they did increase the Hook timer then that would make sense IMO
Since that have increased other times (Gens and Healing) it would be a good change to come
I had an idea on Corrupt... remember what they did to Lethal... just do the same with Corrupt (5-10 seconds of additional Gen blocking)
I do apologize if this doesn't make much sense I'm thinking of a lot of things right now... and I don't have any experience to rely on
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B, C, and D sound like they're not very good at the game. A just sounds unlucky.
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That's a skill issue. Problem soloq has right now is that so many players are elo boosted. Like the killer doing 3 gens will win games they shouldn't just based on the fact that players leave since they don't want to deal with it. On the other hand the changes should make runners climb, so the players that suck at chasing but are carried by perks will no longer be in their games. Since this patch will removes these things we should see MM actually start doing its job and that will be better for soloq. Number 1 problem with soloq is how terrible the players you are paired with are.
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How is that different from right now? I don't get it. The CoH nerf sure. But the altruistic nerf affects both swf and solo survivors.
They just need to revert the CoH nerf, because the healing nerf will already indirectly nerf CoH enough. And buff Self Care to be fair, though people not knowing to not equip that perk is a seperate issue.
Also, that last point is ridiculous. What does someone not understanding that a survivor doesn't want to heal have anything to do with balance?
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What playstyles? There's only tunneling off the bat and nothing else. The amount of nurses and blights that tunnel off the bat has gotten boring so fast.
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Every update people say it's the worst. Then after they play it people change their minds mostly. It's going to happen now also. Both sides get nerfs and buffs..this is good. Problem is survivors only see their nerfs and same do killers. But this will never change.
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If people isnt willing to let go of the current meta.. then why are some of you so against killers tunneling or camping? which by the way tunneling will be more efficient if they kill the remaining gen perk regression so.. it's a pick your poison situation here.
The DBD community seems not fully aware that there needs to be nerfs to both sides and not only one to keep the game alive. But as I said on another thread.. the entire foundation of this game fall apart a while ago m1 on gens, pre drop safe pallets + gens fly. Survivors letting other survivors die on their first hook, giving up on the first down, DC, sandbagging each other for hatch and so on..
You can't have the game in this state anymore.. for both sides. Or just rage against every single change and let the game go into a friday 13th the game situation eventually will die out slowly but surely..
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These changes will definitely hurt the game if they go live. I'm taking a break right now, but I will never return to the game after the update if things don't change (nerf to base healing).
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Having to rely on random teammates is the additional cost. In a SWF, you have at least one teammate you can coordinate with and be on the same page, maybe 4.
In solo q, you are completely at the mercy of the matchmaker for who you get. All of those situations happen right now (though the CoH is just expanding that idea to the proposed 'aura' way CoH would work.) Including the ridiculous 'tantrum thrower' example.
I'm not sure why people think that adding 8 extra seconds is going to make some of these players instantly better. If course it won't. They'll panic and be useless while injured even more, with fewer perks to deal with it, but still show up in your games randomly, because matchmaking.
It's not an additive cost, in that 'both SWF and solos merely have 8 extra seconds'. It's that SWF has 8 extra seconds, and solos get 8 extra seconds compounded by the inefficient nature of solo q, at best, or someone decided self caring in the corner was the only option at worst. Or even the peace of mind knowing that you can work on gens injured and get a SWF callout when the stealth killer is headed your way, which could save you an entire 24 second heal altogether.
You originally asked why this decimates solo q. It's because solo q doesn't need any additional slow downs. A lot of solo q players prioritize their health state over everything else. There's no guarantee you can get someone to take a protection hit for you, and there are far too many times where you can die on the first hook of the game at 5 gens for no discernable reason.
SWF is far more comfortable being injured, because people can coordinate hits and safe healing. So they can afford to heal less often, or when they do, it could be healing each other without the reduced speed penalty from self caring with the perk (35%) or CoH (75%).
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if the healing changes make it to live unchanged I swear to god the game will die.
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Killers have not been asking for "only medkits" to be looked at. When killers complain about healing, they don't specify a specific type of healing, because they're all currently a problem.
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