are we old enough to talk about base bt failure to prevent tunneling and camping?
The only reason why old bt was good was because killers didnt expect it but now killers expect bt and they dont care because in the same update they introduced base bt they also reduced the cooldown of attacks, survivors cant gain a significant distance (big brain move here boys).
since last year tunneling and camping have increased exponentially its time to accept the defeat remove the base bt and add base ds and a mechanic that truly helps againts camping.
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They've already announced they're looking into anti-camping measures. I personally don't feel like tunneling happens as often after unhook as it used to. Usually they go for the unhooker and hook them before taking up chase with the person that got unhooked if they can find them.
Also, what do you mean survivors can't gain distance? You get a 10% speedboost for 10 seconds after getting unhooked, even if you get hit. Base DS would be abused hard. And why remove base BT anyway? That just means the meta would be to slug the unhooked then go for the unhooker every time.
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Base BT is not there for anti-camping. It has nothing to do with camping since it doesn't work there.
Also Base BT was a big Survivor buff and it made BT perk dropped from meta very fast.
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Well they didn’t fully commit to anti tunnel/camp because they also didn’t fully commit to making tunneling never necessary to win. They kind of go hand in hand.
Also the reason tunneling is going up is because they keep nerfing all the regression perks and taking away the killers other ways of winning. Essentially nerfing more gen regression perks increases tunneling.
The fact of the matter is that gens go too fast. The killers are fixing this by stacking gen slow down perks. Then that gets nerfed. What are they left with? Tunneling.
So either we give gen slow downs back or we fix gen speeds. That’s the options for preventing tunneling from being as prevalent. Realistically map design and map size are the core issue of gen speeds so I’d prefer that fixed. Healing was also an issue but we’ll see how that turns out from the PTB.
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Basekit BT is designed to help against tunnelling and stopping a survivor from being downed the moment their feet touch the floor, which felt terrible and gave the survivor almost zero counterplay unless they could time a perfect DH. Survivors don't have control over when they get saved and getting insta-downed because you got saved when the killer was nearby or indeed if they were camping, it gives the unhooked surv a chance to actually do -something-.
If you're a good looper then the 10 second BT and 10% haste almost guarentees you can make it to a tile/pallet/window and at least have something to try and waste the killer's time with. If you're not a good looper then it gives you a few extra seconds before you quickly go down again, but there's not really anything BHVR can do to protect bad loopers who just got unhooked that wouldn't be busted on a good looper.
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Base kit BT was meant to be an anti-tunneling feature but all it di was making the unhooked survivors abusing it by purposefully trying to tank a hit. This mainly leads to even harder tunneling since you as the unhooked person have only 1 healthstate while the unhooker has two. But if you only use BT to get away from the killer it actually helps greatly and buys a lot of time. If you have a massive problem with tunneling how about running DS and Dead Hard?
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Thing is, tunneling is far from necessary and most people who put it into practice usually just throw the game for themselves.
Its just the easiest option that yields results against those who dont know how to deal with it.
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In the case of a healthy survivor rescuing a survivor off hook, it still makes sense to go after the unhooked survivor since with basekit BT and possibly OTR both the healthy survivor and unhooked survivor have the same amount of health states with the caveat that the unhooked survivor can't use dead hard while deep wounded.
Ultimately you can't fix tunneling without changing the game so that getting an early kill is worse than spreading hooks.
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Realistically nerfing DS was the main issue. As a killer, I would assume someone had DS and avoid picking up anyone who died shortly after hook. Slug at best. Especially if they got up in your face. But now DS is so insignificant, it has two effects:
1) no one runs it
2) no one cares if you do cause in 3 seconds you'll just down them again
The threat of DS was an effective deterrent.
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Far from necessary against bad players (which is most). Far necessary against actually good players at high mmr.
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Really isnt, but mmk
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It is, but okay.
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nuh uh
been doing just fine without it. Other than the occasional "oh wow you ######### up"
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Stop using your safety net offensively and I have no reason to chase the easier yet protected target.
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because tunneling is still the most efficient way to play, especially now in the current meta with MEDKITS & COH allowing people to reset in 10 seconds and especially even more so in the case of the strong killers who have mobility to tunnel like spirit, nurse, blight and now wesker. who probably even with the old 5s stun could easily catch back up to tunnel someone back out.
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I never said you couldn't do fine without it. I even said it's not necessary against most players. I specifically said very good high mmr games. Have you watched comp matches for example? There's a reason all they do is tunnel/camp each person to death.
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First, high MMR doesnt exist the way you think it does
Second, comp players tunnel the moment they go in because its the safest option to score the most points. They arent competing against a team of Survivors, they compete against another team period. If a team is ahead in points (or close) theres no reason to try to go for fresh hooks which net the most points
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I personally think it kind of promotes tunneling a bit.
Basekit Endurance and Haste can provide a significant amount of distance and time-waste (letting them reach a safe loop), but if the Killers hits you right as you get unhooked, you still make the same amount of distance (if not less distance) than with the Haste, but you also are put into Deep Wounds which disables perks like Off The Record and Dead Hard. The Killer has no reason to not go for the unhooked Survivor.
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It does. It can stretch quite far down especially in periods of long queues, but it does exist. People at high mmr aren't saying all of their matches are high mmr. You can look at profiles and the skill of the players to tell how good they are.
While their scoring criteria does affect their play choices it doesn't deter from that being the way to win against very good swf groups. Anyone who understands this games balance well knows there are many (not most) matches that require tunneling to win regardless of how good you are as killer unless you're on some of the more viable top tier killers. Are you going to tell me that you could be the best Myers player out there, go against an equally skilled 4 man swf on coms and win on average going for a 12 hook game with typical maps? That just is not a thing. You rely on survivors playing extremely bad and messing up a lot for that to work, which isn't happening if they're equally skilled.
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Why are we talking like High MMR is a thing?
Even newbies get matched against the Navy Seals in this game, stop lying to yourselves.
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What do you want the devs to do instead?
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They made basekit BT along side the change to OTR and nerfing of DS (among other things)
So there wasn't that much data on how basekit BT actually is (If my memory servers me right)
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"They've already announced they're looking into anti-camping measures."
Really? When?
At topic: Basekit BT was never supposed to curb tunneling, but rather give the unhooked survivor a chance to get to another tile if the killer chooses to tunnel, and incentivize them to go after someone else since there's now always protection for 10 seconds. It was also intended to make you not reliant on a teammate bringing a specific perk in order to not be cold turkey, therefore it also frees up a slot paving the way for more perk diversity which was one of their goals in 6.1.
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