See? I told you
Survivors will get what they want eventually. A buff to Dead Hard, reverted the healing nerfs, buffed boon circle of healing, etc etc etc etc but let all the gen kicking perks drown in hellfire.
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Yeah. I can't wait to see Fearmonger, Sloppy and SBFTL will be gutted next.
Slowdown perks like Ruin, Pop, CoB should have been rebalanced at the same time but "Killers don't need any slowdown perks." is what BHVR is thinking I guess.
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I mean they buffed SH: Pain Resonance... kinda... not really. It's still going to be a dead perk.
I personally wish they added an anti-tunnel mechanic to it and that was it, it would be a nerf but it would also promote players to go for more hooks. The regression would overall be the same if you were skilled enough to manage chases. But nope, we have this token effect which I do not like in the slightest.
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CoH: still nerfed
DH: still nerfed
Medkits: still nerfed
Seriously, this is like when they teased basekit Unbreakable, a completely broken mechanic, and all the survivor mains had a meltdown when they realised their new OP toy wasn't actually coming out on live servers.
Just because you were teased with a lottery win, doesn't mean the raise in your wages isn't still a net positive.
Btw, weren't notorious killer mains complaining that the healing changes were a bad thing because it would just cause more genrushing?
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25% total regression is nothing to scoff at.
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I would personally prefer to use Pop Goes... it's normally the only regression perk I bring anyways.
I think it is the limited use factor that does it, I do not like the feeling of "you can only use this ___ amount of times", it feels like I am punished for playing too well because Im just stuck with an empty perk slot for the rest of the match.
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The amount of narrow mindedness in this post... Yeah lets just ignore the billy buff and the pain res buff because survivors got some changes they "wanted". The healing change broke the game, dead hard is max uses of 2 per survivor (literally not a buff), CoH has its self healing completely removed and medkits will no longer allow you to heal yourself at 50+% faster speed.
Yeah.. im sure this is what *survivors* were asking for...
The gen kick meta is boring for both sides, learn to let it go.
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25% total regression on one generator once per survivor assuming hook RNG works out in your favor is, in fact, quite a lot to scoff at
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If you've managed to hook 4+ people in the early stage of the match, you do NOT need extra regression on top of it.
You're already winning.
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Okay.
You also don't have to travel to kick the gen and it applies instantly.
But yes, I understand. You must run 4 gen regression perks or else you insta-lose as Killer.
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👍
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WTH?
you really are calling adjustments to nerfs that are still significant and healthy nerfs buffs ?!
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Well, it would be hooking 4 unique Survivors, which does not help in the pressure department since I could have easily tunneled someone out of the match, and would have basically won regardless... but I think nobody wants that to be the current state of balance.
And Ive had matches where I get hooks early on but struggle later in the match because Survivors saved resources for later in the match. So 4 hooks early on does not necessarily mean you will win either, which ya know, happens sometimes. DBD will be DBD sometimes.
Overall, if I tunnel someone, I should not get the regression, otherwise, if I play well and spread hooks, I should be rewarded for trying to not tunnel.
Again, I normally run just a single regression perk, but I want to feel rewarded for playing skillfully. I am actively making the match more difficult for myself so why cant I have something to help me out?
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Dead hard is basically useless now, what do you mean it got buffed?
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And I think you are rewarded via burst regression for not tunneling.
25% of total progress is huge.
Also, four hooks is four hooks. If you're smart about it, that means only one person can be doing gens. (Someone hooked, someone to unhook, some chased and someone on a gen)
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It is, taking into account how it works, most of the time you should not get 25% regression as not all gets will have 25% progress so you have to use those 4 tokens when you know a gen is in high progress, you down a survivor for the first time (so probably early on the match so the effect is not as powerfull) and close to a scourge hook, its so circumstantial its practically useless, just because it has a pretty number on it doesn't make it good.
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You aren't forced to use a scourge hook lmao.
This rewards good Killers for not tunneling. It's a W and a well designed perk.
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A...a buff to DH? Ummm.... this did not happen. Each survivor can now use DH a max of 2 times, vs the max of 6 times in the prior update notes.
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You can tell it’s a good perk when you’re incentivized your avoid using it.
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I just gotta say this is one of the most simple and best deconstructions of this take, and the killer complaints that have come.
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How is it fair to call buffs to all those things you described?
You cant use Dead hard in the first chase, only 2 uses max, still has all the conditions it previously had(be injured, not exausted, not deep wounded) and you still need to time the 0.5 window.
Altruistic healing was changed to 16sec, self heal with medkits remains at 24 and all med addons were nerfed.
The main strength of COH (infinite self heal) was removed. The 100% altruist heal bonus was given so you can at least consider booning a totem instead of a running botany or desperate measures.
And pain resonance was given a buff with 25%.
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lol, a lot of killer mains doing "tests" saying how unfair and broken the healing nerf was, how DH's nerf was a tunnel incentive, they didn't change it because survivor mains asked for it, they changed it cause everyone (that is not killer biased of course) asked for it.
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You dont need scourge hooks, which is a good change else the perk does nothing, yet if its the first 4 hooks then its still useless, by the time you get the first down any decent team should have at the very least have 1 gen done and some progress on another one, less than 25% for sure, son when you get the hook the other gen will regress less than 25%, way less reward than it offers in paper, so it really only has 3 uses were it actually can proc the 25%, unless you are a bad killer and can only get those 4 hooks when gens have good progress across the map, and if that happens you already lost the map if you are playing that badly.
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How on earth was dead hard buffed? You can only use it twice maximum per match.
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Yeah but its a max of 4 times. PR is still nerfed from what it is currently.
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Killer and survivor biassed threads like this shouldn't be allowed cause they don't make sense. Nothing the OP said makes sense. It seems like he's just wanting to create drama for nothing.
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It's so strange. People should be allowed to say whatever obviously but I don't think I've ever seen so much copium after a set of update notes before. Just... so many objectively wrong takes and leaps in logic.
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"I personally wish they added an anti-tunnel mechanic to it and that was it," was what I originally stated for a reason.
Im talking about 15% regression, not 25%, sorry if this was not made clear enough.
Im basically just saying, revert the SH: Pain Resonance nerf but add an anti-tunnel mechanic to force players to not tunnel in order to get the regression.
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I think it's a fair nerf and the reasons they gave for nerfing it made sense.
I like the new version. Lots of burst regression, but you need to be smart with it.
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The DH change was a nerf. This change prevents you from using it at all before you've already been hooked.
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^ this comment is correct. If you've got that use out of Pain Res that early in the match, then you're already in a very strong position. 25% regression is pretty big, and definitely a big buff from the PTB version.
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Are we really so entrenched that we thought 48 second recovery from a slugged state was a healthy change to the game? Like...come on.
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Regarding Pain Ress i think they went about it the wrong way. 4 Uses is too limiting and highly situational at best if you're not aware of current gen progress. Would've preferred 15% regression instead but add a way to regain tokens via hooking the obsession and have the obsession status transfer to the unhooker while killer is 32m away from the hook.
As for healing, the initial proposed changes were too much on PTB, but they still need to make spreading out injuries matter if that was supposed to be a killer's first initial slow down with the changes. 16 seconds on altruistic healing does not achieve that. 20 seconds baseline should have been the halfway mark to meet.
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The larger number to PR can be more situationally useful. At 15% if you a gen right before survivors finish, they are likely to jump right back on and get it done before the killer gets there. 25% gives the killer time to get their and stop the gen from being finished at all.
You have less chances for a bigger payoff.
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Watch, killers are still going to see 3 or 4 Dead Hards in every single match despite the nerfs because it’s a free 3rd health state. So much for a meta shakeup.
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That’s if you get lucky with RNG and have a scourge hook close by. A perk that potentially give you no value isn’t worth using.
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Two points
A) Pain Res is in no way a buff. 4 hooks, on 4 different survivors all on a scourge hook early game... come on people, let's be real. In terms of practical usage it's a nerf from current state
B) I don't think there was a real worry that the healing proposal would make gen rush worse. Its already awful, but most killers would be ok being gen rushed by 4 injured survivors than 4 healthy ones :).
You can agree or disagree on whether the changes are good or not. But let's all be honest at least.
From a killer main perspective I'm happy with the DH changes and am thankful for that, despite what I think of anything else.
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It's ridiculous, now they're blaming survivors for the change, like if only the survivors saw the problems with a lot of the nerfs done in the last PTB
Even the ones that are way more killer-sided and positive about the PTB changes like SpooknJukes agreed that the healing nerf was too much.
And the DH "buff" some people are talking about, like what buff? It can be used only twice in a match now lolololol they go so far as to deny the Pain Res change wasn't a buff, like, it got busted in the regression, when you boost something is it a buff or a nerf?
Some people shouldn't be playing this, they can't handle it.
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I use Floods of Rage as a Perk (dont use Pain Res since I dont use Slowdown-Perks) and I almost always get to use a Scourge-Hook.
It is not like you have to be exceptionally lucky to reach a Scourge-Hook.
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Dead Hard is still going to be the best exhaustion perk, at least in higher MMR. Not having it before first hook is the only defining change. High MMR killers will still have to deal with DH vs pallets and the "lunge mechanic, what's that?"
It's not like reducing the amount of times doesn't make the third health state in chase worst. Sure you could leave the survivor and when you find the survivor again they won't have it, but the amount of time survivors gained to do gens, plus the utter gutting of all gen regression perks and busted CoH again for SWFs/high mmr survivors will make the Dead Hard nerf seem like no change in respects to the meta in higher tiers.
At least if you tunnel the unhooked survivor you won't have to deal with DH 🙄
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Erm. Dont be selfish. That 1 survivor saving everyone for 6 max dh is definitely not helpful when everyone on a team can get 2 each. Thats much better to stabilize dh usage rate. Most would not bring ptb dh if they believe they wouldnt get the opportunity to save and get it. Now its guarenteed to get a dh activation for everyone.
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So, DH isn't worth using.
I understand what you're saying, you've just made a pretty poor argument.
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OP, I would encourage you to readjust your mindset because what you wrote is very myopic. It was pretty much universally agreed the healing changes were way too harsh. Focusing on changing medkits was the right answer. Base kit healing as it is now has never been a problem, only self healing speed which has been addressed with this patch. DH gets max two uses and now de-incentivizes tunneling. SH: PR will still give good regression without having to kick gens but now having to chase multiple survivors. B: COH will no longer allow you to self heal without a med kit which was its biggest issue. Hillbilly will now feel better to play overall without his add ons being nerfed.
This update is pretty much nothing but positives. I will be singing BHVR's praises for really listening to the community on this crucial patch.
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Assuming you can capitalize on the specific survivor requirements as well as the scourge hook layout given and getting to it. Not taking into account potential bodyblocks, toolboxes' and sabo perk. And let's be honest, you won't get the full 25% regression everytime anyway.
Not a fan of making existing perks super situational at best rather than coming up with better alternative methods which achieve the perk's same effect but not as oppressive.
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DH has been nerfed even more, not buffed. And the self-healing nerf still is in. Stop being a crybaby.
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Overall great changes in my opinion !
It's nice that they reverted the Hillbilly addon nerf, so he's coming out of it with a net positive ! =D
Altruistic heals being reverted is very nice as well. And it's awesome that they kept the medkit nerf. I think healing will be in a nice place after this.
CoH numbers look a bit high, though at least it will be less and less efficient as the survivor numbers dwindle since it no longer allows self-heals. Probably could have capped at 75% though.
DH is also a welcome change, since it will by default limit the number of uses to 2 in the game if I'm understanding it correctly. Though to be pessimistic, it will not make the killer go any less against the unhooked : hitting them through base kit BT will prevent them from using DH after all.
PR is a good change !! Though I think it could increase the number of SH by one or two and it would make it in a nicer place, and promote Scourge Hook builds. It would be fun ! Or at least be worth trying out =D
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You clearly are a tunneler if you’re complaining about this Dead Hard change.
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Yeah because a perk shouldn't give value to everyone who equips it. :/
As if anything I said qualifies as "selfish"
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Replying in general to players talking about Pain Res: you're viewing it from a very one-sided perspective when you only view hook RNG as something that negatively affects killers. There are also many instances where it's almost impossible to lose with current Pain Res because you get a scourge hook inside of a gen cluster. That's when infinite Pain Res becomes a balance issue. I can't possibly lose a game if I'm on an S tier killer with Pain Res/Agi and hook on Pain Res inside of a 4 gen unless I royally screw up. Like right now, if I get Pain Res on a hill in a 3 gen as Nurse, what are you realistically going to do? It's GG the second the killer loaded in if they're good.
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Enjoy the gen rush meta with resilience and the usual perks and toolboxes since they didnt even touch toolboxes at all..
There's 0 excuses to not escape unless you're just intentionally not looping or not pressing m1 on the gens.. considering that gen defense got decimated and nothing got changed.
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