Camping/Tunnelling
I just got camped and tunneled out of a game for the nth time today, so I am emotional and going to rant. How come when killers cried about dead hard, they nerf the perk every time. However, survivors have asked and asked to prevent camping and tunnelling but nothing has happened except for base kit BT. How come the devs ignore their community?????? We asked for a solution to this problem, because it makes survivor a living hell and not fun to play when the killer tunnels them out. Killers cry and they get responded to. Survivors cry and they ignore us. It is just frustrating getting tunneled and camped out of a game.
Comments
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Dead Hard is barely getting touched.
The reason why camping and tunneling are still in the game, is because the ultimate goal for the killer is to kill survivors. Survivors cannot be allowed to have invincibility states as the killer should always have the threat of killing a survivor. Not to mention any sort of invincibility is going to end up being abused. The only way camping/tunneling would be removed would is to completely rework the game which there is really no need to do, because DBD is doing just fine as it is.
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It will happen again. Try to think of tunneling as a chance to practice chase, because the killer's attention is all on you. The killer doesn't want to ruin your day, he's just sweating like he will win an apartment in Dubai. When I feel like it’s the day of tunneling, I run Deli + OTR + DS + DH combo. You should try it to make tunneling more fun for you.
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Someone who thinks dead hard is barely getting touched is probably someone who doesnt even use dh because they fail at it all the time.
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Dead Hard will drop usage for a few weeks then people will start bringing it again, because it's still a perk that provides on demand access to a 3rd health state. People are really fooling themselves if they believe this is a heavy nerf to the perk.
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It took a LONG time for DH to get nerfed.
BHVR is just really slow at changing things and they are VERY resistant to changing base-game mechanics
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Dead Hard took 6 years of crying to get nerfed the first time. Now it's getting nerfed again, but survivors complained and so the nerf got reduced.
Don't know where you are getting this "nerfed everytime killers complain" thing from when it's only been nerfed twice, and it's still a pretty solid perk.
Camping and tunnelling are much harder to adjust than a single perk is. And they have made some changes to help deal with it - Basekit BT, Haste after unhook, Reassurance, OtR, preventing certain killers from using their powers for camping.
I'm sure there will be more changes in the future, it's just not something that can be changed in one patch like Dead Hard or Eruption.
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Newsflash, just because the goal of the killer is to "Kill" has NOTHING to do with how stupidly broken Camping/Tunneling are as playstyles.
What's next? Don't nerf healing AT ALL because the goal of the survivor is to heal, not to survive? At least make it make sense man. Stop trying to excuse this stupid playstyle that isn't healthy for the state of the game nor its longevity.
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Git good at looping
Skill issue
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It does actually. The game could be balanced around hooking survivors where survivors don't die and the killer has to get X number of hooks before the survivors escape. However, the game is not that.
As long as the primary goal of the killer is to kill the survivors, the game has to balanced around the killer always being able to kill a survivor. Meaning that tunneling and camping have to be allowed as not allowing them would directly go against the killer's ability to kill survivors. The devs have put forward things such as Basekit BT and Haste to help combat tunneling and survivors have access to perks to help against tunneling and even a couple to help against camping. But at the end of the day those things can only help against those tactics, not completely prevent them.
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No it doesn't. It doesn't "excuse" it, it doesn't make it any less frustrating to deal with and it certainly does not mean that it will stay that way, unless the devs want to see this game die.
The keyword you are choosing to ignore is "balance", it is not "balanced" around killing survivors, it is catering to the masses who want easy pressure. Because if there was balance around it, we would have something that would actually work rather than the bandaids like (mini BT) and Haste which does nothing against killers who understand timing and pressure. Real balance would mean that the person being Tunneled OR Camped has a FAIR chance should the killer decides to focus and only pursue them after being unhooked.
We can beat this dead horse until the game shuts down, Camping and Tunneling in their current form is the worst thing that could possibly happen to this game. Especially when MMR is not consistant, when a perk has to be brought in to semi counter something that at the end of the day we know means nothing when the killer doesn't magically divert to another survivor thus preventing them to tunnel. It is still a problem in 2023.
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You aren't looking at the game objectively. The killer exists to kill survivors. Hooking is simply a means to do so. Tunneling and camping are byproducts of the game allowing the killer to remove players from the game. As long as the killer has the ability to remove other players from the game, then tunneling and camping will exist.
And despite claiming that tunneling and camping is the worst thing to happen to the game, DBD has been fine throughout the 6 coming on 7 years despite tunneling and camping complaints existing since the game's start.
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Show me a game of you beating 5k hour swf without tunneling or camping.The game simply isn't balanced around having 4 survivors for over half the match,and keep in mind generators can reasonably be repaired in 5 minutes,so you absolutely need to tunnel someone out of the game if you want to win.The only exception is playing blight/nurse and being matched against terrible players that lose the chase in 5 seconds.(even the BEST wraith in the world,controlled by an AI if you will that plays perfectly will not be able to 12 hook a remotely DECENT team on Garden of Joy for example)
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Yeah on demand 3rd health state. It's funny when people say this stuff how obvious it is what their mmr is. I'd say 1/10 dhs work on me when I play killer.
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they need to penalize it so every time the game is considered a camped game the player can only plays survivor until the timer runs out the timer would get considerably worse as they waited for the timer to expire and proceed to play another camp game the timer would then exceed double the amount up until after 50 time you can't play killer on that ip anymore simple and fair face camping till death hook is greffing also the game would notify you that you were indeed camping so you can keep track of how close you are to getting banned from playing killer and camping is only necessary when all gens are done that is the only time also the system would consider camping if a survivor is stand x amount of meters away from the hooked survivor
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It literally is an on demand 3rd health state. Just because survivors you face fail to use it properly does not change what it is. The survivor can press e for endurance whenever they want with the upcoming condition of having been hooked.
There's a reason it's a popular perk so there's no reason to downplay it's strength.
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What killers you play? As Spirit sometimes I have to do lunge attack into the window because otherwise I will not reach the hit from phasing, as Blight I can’t bait DH forever because it’s only 5 rushes, as M1s I need to play 50/50 around pallets when survivor is injured. DH into Knight’s guard, DH at corner against Huntress, DH at Plague’s puke, DH at Demogorgon dash etc etc etc… Stop saying that successful DHs are killers skill issue because sometimes you have to hit or survivors can react to hit.
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Well, learn to like it cause after next update there will only be more of it.
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The ultimate goal of Halo/Call of Duty/Smash Bros. is to kill the opposite team, but even they all learned the basic lesson that you need some form of spawn invulnerability, or killing people out of spawn will be abused. It is no different with unhooks. Spawn invuln can be abused, but killing someone out of 'spawn' is far more egregious. 2 seconds wouldn't destroy the game, especially since killers can still easily hit the unhooker in that timeframe.
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This is community's fault. 99% of main suvs want to see all gen defense perks dead (Obviously without killing prove thyself, bpn and toolboxes), so the killers have to adapt by tunneling and camping. It's community's fault, and also devs' fault because they care only about one side (survivors) and don't even play killer in public matches against the top of the top swf.
It's your fault that you keep complaining about things that aren't even unbalanced, causing unnecessary nerfs. Now enjoy the consequences, killer must tunnel and camp to win because they know that gens go too fast. If gens go fast, killer must kill fast no?
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You have base kit bt for your "spawn protection"
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Are you bringing OTR? I've been seeing a lot of tunneling recently and OTR has been really great at punishing it. Even had a Nurse try to tunnel me out in the start of a game and the IW was able for me to evade her. I would actually go so far and say if you pair it with SB that it is stronger than old DS.
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I am looking at the game as what it is... A GAME.
Your only excuse so far boils down to "The Killer Exists To Kill" .... but who cares about the rest right? Like the fact that this is a game and they should be conscious of the design choices they make when it affects overall balance right?
I'm not here saying "Survivor's job is to survive" so they should get 10 health states. Cuz that would be a ridiculous statement just as yours sounds. I do play BOTH sides and understands the different tactics that exist and corners you can cut, and as I already said Camping and Tunneling in their current form do not provide a balanced back and forth between the killer and survivor considering that all they have to do is pretty much just stand there and other survivors just hold M1 on a generator.
It's not like once this person is unhooked all of a sudden they have a fair chance at running the killer again when you consider the context like which part of the map where they hooked at. Then you're gonna say bring OTR, right? Well people have, in fact people have in every match because this playstyle is as present as the old DH was. As present as the old Ruin was. As present as the old PGTW was.... all of which were bad for the health of the game.
SO whether you think they (Camping/Tunneling) are a 'byproduct' of the game or not, they are broken in many situations. That is bad for an asymmetrical game, when there is no great deal of 'work" to achieve a kill when using this easy/cheap tactic.
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The killer needs to be able to kill survivors since that is the core objective of the killer. As a result this allows camping and tunneling to be effective strategies. You can't remove these strategies, because you have to take away the killer's ability to kill in order to do so.
You just need to accept that the current game design allows these to be as strong as they are and a massive overhaul to the game that likely won't happen, because DBD is doing just fine as it is would be needed to change that.
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So what about me saying that they should balance the current state of Camping and Tunneling is telling you that killers wont be able to kill survivors? Also, never used the words "remove".
DBD is not doing fine, I mean if you're only looking at the numbers consider that maybe there isn't an Asymm game strong enough to compete.... yet. It's reviews are not reflective of it doing "just fine":
Point is, I want DBD to do better and I think giving feedback is important. Balance is important and if we're only here saying "Well the survivors are there to survive" and that had they not changed stuff... you should accept everything that they have already changed... I don't think that is a good mindset to have considering that a lot of the things they changed on survivor HELPED killers.
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Steam charts show a stable player base. Not to mention those negative reviews were a reaction from people disliking the ptb.
It's clear you'll never accept DBD for what it actually is and there's no point in continuing any discussion with you.
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Or you just ran out of excuses.
It's ok. I know what is clear is that you think the killer should be able to kill regardless of how broken and unbalanced the game is. :)
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you must love waiting in lobby more then play because if that happen they be no killers playing and the game would finally die.
but maybe that the goal of survivors to kill this game...
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The reason why Camping and Tunneling happen is Gen progress VS. Gen regression are what they are
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I don't think that's correct.
Even if we made those things equivalent, I actually think Killers would camp and tunnel more.
Why?
Because it's the easiest and most effective strategy to win. Players will always optimize the fun out of a game, camping/tunneling are just symptoms of that.
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Yeah I feel mixed on this tbh.
I do get messaged as a camper every now and then but most of the time it's in a situation like I had yesterday
Found 2 survivors in shack, I kicked the gen that was likely around 90%, downed a survivor and hooked in basement, tried to leave and ran into the other survivor from the gen where they ran me around the shack. I hooked them and get called a camper. Like...what am I supposed to do? Just actively let you do a gen and unhook a survivor with me pretending I don't see you? I get pretty irritated by it.
Tunneling is often similar. Normally the person I find after an unhook is the person who just got freed. So I'm expected to pretend I don't see them and aimlessly run around? If you run into me and I don't see your friends I'm going to go after you. I'll get messaged being a camper but it just makes sense to go after whoever is in front of me. Oftentimes there is a reason that person was hooked in the first place (they were too much in the open and not good at looping). Sorry I don't just intentionally play poorly.
Outside of situations like those I mentioned I can understand being irritated more. Just standing in basement waiting for someone to die on first hook is very different and I get irritated by. I'll often message the killer asking "well...was that fun for you?" Since they just got me and never hit another survivor before they lost. Those games are frustrating along with being very intentionally tunneled where the killer ignores other survivors (even if you are out of sight) just to kill you.
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This continues to be the worst argument I see. This "killer has to kill" stuff. You do realize you can kill survivors without tunneling right? No doubt it's less effective but in a perfect world it would be most effective. Can killers not have weapons because survivors need to have the threat of surviving? There's literally never been any drop of reasoning to this "killer has to kill" point when used to defend tunneling as a game mechanic. It's a result of bad game design and needs to be changed, because dbd is NOT doing just fine as it is. Except maybe for some of you lazy killers that don't want the game to improve and just want to get easy kills
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tell me you dont use DH without saying you dont use DH ..... it gives you a third health state IF the killer is bad and does not bait a 0.5 ability out, it only also works half the time because of the server latency.
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Even a base kit isn't enough?
Do you have any ideas how many times camping being nerfed?
Have you ever playing killer before?
And how dare you to said survivor's perk being nerfed every time when there are less than 10 perks being nerfed in a year?
Do you even read about the update note?
You really wonder why killers are camping or tunnel?
Because right now killer don't have many tools to "giving pressure",and camping/tunnel are two of them.
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Because a strategy that arises because of the core game mechanics is much more complicated of a fix than fixing an feature that's too strong. It's easy to make a perk that's strong less strong, but it is incredibly difficult to come up with a solution to a base game issue that isn't exploitable in some way, shape or form.
And let's be real, the devs do not ignore the community. The community isn't always happy with the changes the devs make, but they have shown time and time again that they listen to the community and value their feeback. Just look at the recent PTB. People complained that the healing nerfs were way too much, so they scaled them back. The community said the hillbilly engraving addons were a bad idea, so they rolled them back. People said the Pain Res nerfs made it too weak, so they buffed the regression is causes to compensate. People said the CoH changes made it too weak, so they bumped up the healing speed boost.
The devs do listen to this community, both sides of it in fact, and I'm kinda tired of hearing they're biased in one direction. They have the unenviable task of having to balance one of the hardest pvp genres to balance in all of gaming, so not every change is going to be perfect. And I'm sure they realize just how complicated of a task combatting camping is. I'm sure they've had several ideas, tested them, and then found it made the game less healthy. I would much rather them take a really really long time to come up with a fix that's good than just throw out a change that makes the game much worse for an extended period of time.
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You're ignoring the point so you can make an attack against me despite the fact I play far more survivor.
The game itself rewards tunneling and camping and does not reward not doing so.
Survivors messing up DH does not change the fact it's a 3rd health state perk. Stop downing playing a perk because you are bad with it.
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survivors MESSING UP DH ? you seriously don't use it .... 0.5 of a second is extremely easy to bait out and if you're getting hit by dead hards then you're either a new killer or you just refuse to admit that the survivor outplayed you therefor its imbalanced, there is nothing else to to it. you're acting as if it is a GUARANTEED health state, it is only a guaranteed health state as i mentioned if you're a new killer and you don't know how to wait an extra 0.5 seconds to bait it out...
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I don't really get what you get out of showing that you can't use DH effectively and downplaying the fact that endurance is a 3rd health state.
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"DBD is doing just fine as is". Actually it's not. You do not speak for the entire player base.
Just take a look at the forums before you post drivel.
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The forums are not representative of the player base as a whole. Even steam charts don't show the full picture, but given that the playerbase has been stable for months on steam, it's unlikely other consoles are seeing anything extremely different.
The fact of the matter is that despite how insistent a minority is that the game is dying, it's not.
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It's not going to solve all of the issues of the game...
They can't come up with a way to stop Tunneling on both sides... and we can only come up with hard solutions
They made the game to be as simple as possible... in have the players make choices in game
Running "meta" perks and builds
Camping and tunneling
Hiding or looping
But if BHVR comes down on some of these choices then we would be upset... just think of the different changes that the game has done and how many players have complained about it
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In my experience, tunneling/camping veteran survivors (who are very clearly playing to win) is the least effective strategy. Sure, there might be moments in the game where it is strategically advantageous to do so, but good players will punish you if you rely on it for your win condition.
The only way to beat a talented team is to perpetually keep them in a state of damage control. This means multiple survivors downed/hooked and injured.
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why do I always feel like everyone on the forums are full of it.
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How about you just move on to the next game? And if you get camped again, go to the next one? Keep moving to next game until you get the easy and enjoyable one. After all this is what killer players are advised to do when they get one-sided unbalanced and not fun match. It should work for you too, right?
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Ah yes, another thread of survivor mains and killer mains telling each other how wrong they are about this game
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Then I can use OTR and deny tunneling once I actually have control of my character right? Oh no wait, anti-tunnel endurance deep wounds when it clearly shouldn't. People made meme youtube videos with their viewers and pretended that you would actually be able to do that in a real match you would win. You would not only need to farm MoM, throwing the game to do so, but also be unhooked with OTR (before they removed its endgame endurance) and a friend maybe bringing BT just to get 3 hits before DH-ing/styptic-ing for the 4th. As long as killers can immediately hit off hook with no recourse, there is no 'spawn protection', especially since it denies the future ability to resist going down. It can even deny a Bite the Bullet play.
A much better version would give anti-tunnel endurance -10s remaining each time you are hit. That way you would have to Bubba saw an OTR user off hook 9 times (80s OTR, 10s basekit BT) before they go down (assuming you insta hit them off hook and hit them the second the I-frames ran out each time). This would only function this way for anti-tunnel forms of endurance, and doesn't mean the killer gets no value if they get early and often hits. It would have a reasonable risk to tunneling, as there would be uncertainty in "how many onion layers I have to shred through, maybe I should just go for the unhooker or the person working on the gen instead." All endurance drops on 'Conspicuous Action' anyways, so they can't progress the game if they want value. If people are afraid they will abuse bodyblocking then just remove collision while under the effects of anti-tunnel endurance.
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OK I agree that for certain killers like nurse where it's more obvious when the attack is coming DH is a bigger issue. But that's only for a few killers (and really only ones with strong chase potential aka nurse, blight, spirit etc). For m1 killers, dh is rarely an issue and that's what everyone makes it sound like.
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This game is in a very unhealthy state for killer and for solo queue.
With gens being faster than they've ever been before, killers aren't being left with much option but to camp/tunnel.
It might not be fair but it's on the Devs, not the killers
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For every one of these posts I see, I camp and tunnel 2 survivors out the game regardless of feelings 😈
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I think Killers consistently sitting on a 3 gen, dragging the match out past 30 minutes might have had something to do with the regression perks getting nerfed.
Same with healing. Killers spammed anti-healing perks during the PTB, making every match a grindy, obnoxious nightmare. So the devs changed it. Both Killer and Survivor players abuse whatever they can in game. When that happens, the devs change it. It might take them years to do so, but they do.
There's no way that the devs are not looking at toolboxes. I can almost guarantee that a nerf will appear at some point. I'd even wager it will happen this year.
Honestly, the fact that your response to someone, who essentially was not able to play the game for nine matches straight is basically "You deserve it, because some survivors gen rush", is just sad. No matter how badly I get griefed by toxic Killer players, I still genuinely feel bad when I see one getting trolled and tea bagged by an organised SWF group.
People really need to stop giving themselves permission to not feel any empathy for the other side. The toxic part of this community is very loud, but it's a small minority. The vast majority of players you encounter are decent people who just want to have some fun.
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True, but it will only provide that third health state two times in a match, and that's if you get hooked. It's not a dead perk, but its pickrate will absolutely drop, and not just temporarily.
I'd prefer they stop with the half measures and just bury the damned thing like they have so many other perks, but this will definitely be the weakest state it'll ever have been in.
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