dead hard bring it back!
most of us prob know that dead hard went extinct since the last patch. now what i dont get is that dh has one of the most powerful counters of all time and can be explained in 3 simple words... WAIT IT OUT, the only thing you need to do as a killer is to have some patience, now not only do you get a kill you also learn more about playing as a killer.
if you are complaining about dh you are prob not that good at the game and heres why. if you are a good survivor main and knows how to play dh really skillfull you can pull many dh in a single game, but if your not a skillful surv. chances are you are not going to pull it off cause you dont know how to bait/time it right a dh if you are in a dead zone as an example. i would argue that dh has prob the biggest learning curve in the game and that is a perk that actually shows of your skill, how good you can read the killers thaughts and next move. but again at some point you use your dh even if you faked it 11 times and if you as killer have patience you can get an easy down, now back to the present not being able to have dh at the start of the trial is just dumb, and to restrict it to 2 times 70% of the times you dont even pull it off, you see people have learnt the biggest outplaying to dh is wait it out, so they still do even after the patch, i think its dumb and ofc sb also has a learning curve but not nearly ass hard to learn as dh.
now after you read this essay about dead hard i would appreciate your thaughts of what i just wrote.
ik now my english is not the best but if you are wondering about anything just respond and ill try to make it clearer:D
Comments
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Honestly DH was fine it just needed a pallet restriction and it would be perfect. Now I play against sprint burst and lithe every game and it's so annoying because you can't do anything about it, unlike dead hard
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Technically, you can hit Lithe before they vault windows
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My guy it's been less than a week, calm down
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“if you are complaining about dh you are prob not that good at the game and heres why.”
If you are complaining about the lack of dead hard, you are prob not that good at the game either.
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And often if you read them right you can also get a hit right after they vault on the other side.
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Let it go. JRM is a pretty decent survivor and even he estimated his success rate with DH at about 20% since 6.1 update. Any decent streamer i watched who played with that perk had a low success rate. If you had great success with it then I think you're a good enough survivor to be able to play the game without it.
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I find that even tho yes wait it out is the counterplay I can also express that the counterplay for combos like CoB+ OC was to tap the gen, and if you failed the skillcheck it was a skill issue, but you see both of these claims ignore the situations in which these perks are uncounterable or counterable but at the cost of the match/part of it.
For example CoB+OC technically was countered by gen tapping, but the killer could use it indefinetly and pressure the gen, this part of the argument is ignored by many defending those perks. Same with DH, yes you can absolutely wait it out, if the survivor is AI, no good survivor will use deadhard on a situation it can be counterplayed unless there is no other choice, you should use it before pallets, so even if the killer waits you can drop the pallet, or against proyectiles like hatches or knifes and also with killer that have an m2 that requires instant attack like ph, nemesis, knight, hillbilly, nurse, blight, wesker to which the killer can do nothing about if the survivor used dh properly (if you want I can provide some of the coolest uses of DH in comp I have seen for this, altho not on all of this killers since many do not see comp play).
Even so deadhard can still do all of this but it can do it 2 times instead of 3, saying new dh is dead would be like saying blight is dead if they remove 1 rush from his power.
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Yes, which is, with Lithe or not, they are both get a hit.
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You countered your own argument.
You said that dh is skillful to use and you can pull it off often and that a good killer can counter it most of the time. If something happening is in the hands of someone else to mess up, then it wasn't really that skillful anyway.
With that said, playing around dh is boring regardless.
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It feels freeing not having to wait out DH for every single survivor I come across.
I can actually EARN my first down instead of potentially having a chase extended by 3 minutes and getting 0ks as a result.
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sprint burst is not even that hard to counter. most of the time itll be used when you approach a gen with a survivor working on it. so walk up to the gen and force them to waste their SB. now they wont have it for the next time you come (bonus points if you have fearmonger).
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it depends from killer to killer, on how good you can read the counterpart. if you expect dh at all times you can counterplay that. even if they dh trough a pallet, i really dont see how i countered my own argument, yes a good killer expects it at all times and have more patience then others. aswell as this perk has the biggest high risk high reward depending on your skills and knowledge of the game.
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that still does not mean people wait it out, it still has one of the biggest counterplay known to man kind, the perk now is utter dogshit. especially if your mmr is mixed, i can say that some games i get survivors leaving me to hang to second stage last second, wich means i only get to use it once. whilst the next game i get chads that actually knows the game well.
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some games it can even be restricted to 1 use on a game depending on if you get unhooked 1 stage, now is that really fair
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so instead you waste another 15 minutes for a cautious survivor that will not sit on a gen without sb its just dumb and a waste of time
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its beeb less then a week and its already bad. put it that way
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jrm uploaded dead island 2 cause he thaught it was more fun then dbd rn if that does not say alot idk. even ayrun joined him....
aswell as im not talking about looping. ofc im able to play without it since im able to loop a killer for decent amount of time i just want to be able to have a 2nd chance... (CHANCE) its still not a garuanteed save from impending doom. you see?
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you obviously did not read the rest how using dh skillfully and precise moment can be hard and shows of your skills and knowledge of the game. you dont have to be maulding cause your the one who's got patience of a 3 year old
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Or maybe people just need more time to commence with the gitting of the gud?
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I may agree that dead hard should not be nerfed to the ground.
But i cannot agree with the statement that "wait it out" is in any way good counter... its bad, its worst. Especially if everyone would do that, then every surv would learn it and also wait with dh and at the end there would be no single hits in those chases... its bad.
Dead hard should be reworked. Maybe not entirely, but for sure.
My idea is to make dh automatic, not lasting 0.5, 1 or X seconds, but activates upon being hit after meeting specific criteria, like:
- DH having tokens.
- activates only after being unhooked.
- activates after X seconds of chase.
- Or anything else
To keep its premise but not create a counter called "wait it out". And, DH is very susceptible to internet connection, so small lag can turn perfect DH use into fail and vice versa.
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Don't bring DH back, its the worst perk in the game in terms of fun factor for killers and its a crutch for bad survivors.
that nerf NEEDS to stay, I am sick and tired of having to do a "little dance" while I wait to see if EVERY SINGLE survivor have DH while they run me around the map even when they don't have it.
The pick rate for that perk was through the roof because it was OP, don't EVER bring it back, just let it die, like, very hard.
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that does not sound so bad a rework could definetly be an good idea and would love to see the devs take that in concideration!
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again its all about knowledge and there is way to bait out a dh, good survivors enjoy ''outplaying'' a killer with a second chance perk since it gives such a high reward. now the way survivors run, the way the take the chase and how they loop you is enough to determine if a survivor has dh and to be extra secure you wont get shat on by ''luck'' just wait an extra second sooner or later they are going to use it, if you go swinging ofc they are use dh since its the way the perk is supposed to be used. but if you get close even on a pallet where they dont have distance for an extra loop you can easely counter a dh.
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why do you think its called 2nd chance perk?
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So you admit, the perk is relied on by people who need a free mistake corrector?
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More than any other Survivor perk, Dead Hard was a crutch perk. I saw so many Survivors over the years who would have died several times over without Dead Hard. It's really not that skillful to press "E" when you're about to lose a chase.
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Waiting is not baiting.
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Some killers can only hold W and M1 in the chase.
Win conditions are too strict on M1 killers for survivors to have rampant deadhard. Plus all the different builds we're seeing now make things a lot less predictable and a lot more interesting.
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Honestly, from an M1 killer's perspective and even to an extent, the Oni...
Gen times are way too low for anything to happen.
all there is left "unnerfed" in the killer's toolbox is meme-worthy bad and all survivor have to do for an easy win is slam gens with BNP and Prove thyself.
0 fun.
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Or Dead Island 2 threw a bunch of money to sponsor various content creators including Otz and Hens and probably JRM too.
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ofc its how the perk is designed, but it still has huge counter and not that op if you know how to play around it.
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depends if the killer fall for it, you are still able to wait it out. just have patience?
when i played killer i rarely fell for deadhard since people use it when expected...
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they definetly sponsored but would not surprise me if they think alot of games are mor fun to play now since the update
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nerf gens sounds like a good idea i can admit that when i play surv the gens fly by and the match is too fast for any1 to have fun...
they need to rework the objective somehow. people dont learn too loop nowadays its just press m1 on a gen and hope for the best
now after the update i dont really blame survivors tho, you dont have a 2nd chance perks that are worth using. basically that means no survivor want to take chase unless they have too.
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if you need DH to play survivor, you're not good at the game. Regardless, DH is still useful, you just need to earn it instead of having it for free every 40 seconds. It's balanced now
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i played no cleanse plague and ghostface still got won the deadhard play, just wait it out....
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you telling me that if you wait a second before a survivor vault you aint gonna see a deadhard
if you got distance for a wait, if you dont have distance a survivor is going to vault right
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Honestly I've seen it more post patch than I was pre patch haha
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Ah yes, let me WAIT IT OUT until you reach the pallet and force a hit. It's not a counter, it's a lie to make DH seem less powerful; It's not effective at all, if someones in the middle of nowhere sure it works, but thats not when it's used, is it? I can count on one hand the times it worked when in the open, but i can't even begin to count how many times it's forced at a pallet or window
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Ok my two cents to dead hard:
This bait it out satement is getting old. It really looks like this people don´t want to get the point in dead hard. Nobody litteraly nobody had a problem with dead hard in a dead zone that was easily baitable. Nobody cares about this cases and this was not the problem with dead hard.
The main problems with dead hard were:
- Dead Hard against abilities: Wesker Bound. You want to use wesker bound in the small corridor on range before the surv reaches the pallet? Not with dead hard my man. Just press it on reaction. Same for huntress hatchets and basicly every telegraphed range attack that is used on range.
- Dead Hard in short loops. There is not a low chance you come in the situation where you have to lounge to reach the surv before he reaches the pallet. Just press dead hard on reaction and gg.
- Dead hard covers you, even if you don´t have it.. There is not much to say about it. I think everybody was in the situation where he had to wait out dead hard and runs into a balanced landing at some harvester (yes the mini shovel is enough to trigger it). You will wait it out like 12 times (if you twelve hook the survs) since you wait it out for like 2-3 seconds. This is a loss of minimum 36 seconds only because the potential existence of a perk in a group. I´ve seen videos of people finishing gens in that time. Alone.... And this is a problem.
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in this situation, yeah I could agree with you, but I think most killers would say its the forcing your move that's annoying. in a deadzone you simply wait for the Dead Hard, but trying that on jungle gyms are a bit harder as you have to be certain. you can't wait for him to use it, you have to swing if they are going to a vault/pallet no matter if they do have it.
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It's pretty simple.
Did DH have a counter? Mostly yes
Was it annoying to do? Yes
Is DH hard to use? No
Noone can convince me that DH was skillful perk.
It's like baiting killer to swing on window. It's not really hard once you know the pattern. That's all.
DH was still perk that could simply fix your mistake. Too greedy on pallet? Just DH.
Lost mind game and vaulted pallet? Just DH
You have situations where killer has to lunge, otherwise he wouldn't get hit anyway.
That perk basically disable killer's lunge attack. How is that not broken?
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You can't wait it out when it's used at pallets or windows, in any situation where you have to either lunge or give up the hit entirely.
And if your experience is truly that barely anyone does this, then I'm sorry to break the news to you: You are playing bad Survivors. Which means the game has determined that you are bad at Killer. Like, I'm not that good and it happened basically every time I ran into a DH user, so I have no idea where people are getting this notion from.
The perk was meta for over half a year even after the rework. The nerf was well-deserved by any metric you could ask for. Just get over it? Acting like it wasn't strong makes you seem like you're either being dishonest or stupid.
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Survivor main: "DH is not hard to counter!"
For context, they are not skillfull at using it and whiff it all the time but come on this forum to defend it...
they will now proceed to never play killer to demonstrate to all of us how easy to counter.
The end.
Follow me on insta for more fairy tails
(Disclaimer, this is a joke and I don't have instagram)
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Your original post has 2 upvotes. My snarky reply has 24. Read the room.
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